My Experiment (and A Bad Experience)

StudKing · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">A quick route to success with the Kharaa</div> The scene: I'm on a server called "X-Crew.net". Just started on map ns_eclipse, and I'm on the Kharaa team. I decide that I want to go gorge, and find the quickest route to getting a second hive. We start in computer core. I secure 2 resource nodes, without defense and move to eclipse command to take the 3rd node. At this point the money is flying in. I'm the only gorge so things are really moving quickly. Within I'd guess about 5 minutes we have a second hive built. Immediately afterwards I begin to fortify the new hive by building defense & offense. Then afterwards I was moving around and fortifying all other locations. In the process I lost 1 resource node after the new hive was being built. Some thoughts on this strategy:

- I didn't build any chambers. I wanted to get resources and a hive. That's it. The idea being that you get a second hive so quickly, there's no sense in getting defense chambers. The advantage of regeneration for 42 resources when you could have 2 resource nodes for roughly the same cost and time constraints isn't worth it with this strategy
- no defenses. I know it sounds insane, but even if you lose a resourcer you're ok. If you take the time to fortify everything (which skulks can get to pretty quickly, esp. on ns_eclipse) you're losing time and money. Typically marines will be fortifying their first and second outpost at this point, so you have free reign of the map. Use it! Someone here previously suggested that OC and DC are for the mid-game. I absolutely agree!
- the time you're weakest and most vulnerable is waiting for the second hive to be built. Backup is essential. Getting killed at this point can be very costly. If the new hive is already up, people are much more likely to provide backup because of the warning messages.

A small aside (because I really need to vent):

Now just a small note about something else. I like to think I'm a pretty good player. That's not because I have l33t skillz or because I rack up the most kills. It's because when I'm a gorge I heal everyone I can. When we're sieging the marine base, I go lerk so that I can umbra for the fades. In short, I think I'm good because I'm a team player and I help everyone that I can.

Let me tell you about the guys from X-Crew (the clan server I was playing on). In particular the two guys playing that night [XC]Admiral and [XC]Kernon. Early in the game one of them requests that I build a defense chamber. Not fitting with the strategy I'm going for, I mention that carapace will really only net you a couple of extra hits, and that even with regen, you can respawn and get back in position in a small amount of time (I'm typing this while saving for hive). At this point I'm told "if you don't know how to use a gorge, don't become one". Shortly after this comment I start the new hive at about the 5 minute mark <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Anyhow, this doesn't stop here. They go on to call me an "idiot" and insult my alias and clan tag. At one point I'm told that the 3rd hive is occupied by the marines. They clear it out without telling me, then call me "clueless" for not starting the new hive when last I heard it wasn't secure. I might add I didn't say anything in response because what point was there in arguing with impotent 15 year-olds? I guess it was a good thing since in checking their clan site after the facts, they're the admins on this server.

Sorry for the long story, but the bottom line is if you want to meet a couple of jerks, or find a server where the admins delight in insulting you, X-Crew.net is the place to go.

FireStorm · November 2002

hmm lol

they must understand you can win several ways... some different tactics exist...

Dauntl3ss · November 2002

Nice strat, the only "but" is that if the marines rush and take one hive without securing their main base...
They could easily come over you and kill you, and the resource nodes along...

but again "BUT" if your team is good teamplayers too, as yourself, you can make a couple of skulks patrol the resource nodes, cause <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> owns <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

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And about those X-Crew peeps, they are just badasses, dont bother about such lamers..

Join another server, u always meet such peeps somewhere..
Personaly i hate admins, especially those who JUST HAVE TO abuse their admin ability, jeez...

PseudoKnight · November 2002

That's how I always start as Gorge. Two resource nodes up first before anything else. Marines are usually being kept busy by Skulks, if they are doing their job. So you can run around capping resources rather quickly. They may take a number of them, but you've already done the damage and have plenty of resources for anything you want including a brand spankin' new hive.

I've been called a noob as a Gorge before because I didn't build a defensive chamber early and it doesn't affect me. I've gotten compliments after the same games.

One that bothers me is that if there's one more Gorge and I go Gorge to help since it's getting hectic, the other players sometimes get mad at me. I know there's a 1-3 Gorge limit, (usually lower the better) but come on... 2 Gorges is fine. Especially when I capped a resource immediately after gestating to make up for it. If there's 2 Gorges, I never go Gorge... which I'm fine with since I'm a good skulker too.

People just have to make sure others know what they're doing. Alot depends on everyone and especially Gorges and Commanders. So, while their fears are justified, they don't really know anything about the skill of the other player in many cases and shouldn't judge him/her based on one strategic decision without communicating first.

wlibaers · November 2002

Don't go Gorge unless you hear the "we need builders" message, you're on a very big team, or the other Gorge is doing stupid stuff.

And about admins, well, if they're abusing their position it's pretty bad, but sometimes I'm glad to see one on the server when someone is spamming the latest hits over the voicecomm in less than telephone sound quality.

BoddoZerg · November 2002

Unless you have 7 or more players, 2 gorges is utterly unnecessary. Unless the single Gorge on your team is a total idiot, that is.

Ph0enix · November 2002

My general tactic is this (assuming 2 gorges). Whoever goes gorge USUALLY knows what they're doing. I quickly co-ordinate with the other gorge. One of us will quickly cap some resource points whilst the other throws up some defences at the first hive, then go capping as well. When its time for 2nd hive, whoevers on highest resoures hides in a corner whilst the other again sets up some defences (setting up a hive to watch a sqaud of marines take it down is BAD <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'> )

But since this isn't the Kharaa startegy forum.......

I think i've been fairly lucky with the servers I go on. I've not had one commander recycling anything or anything to delibrately screw over their team. All the admins i've seen have been fine. I might post the IPs at some point if anybodys interested.

HavoK · November 2002

Skulks really don't need a def upgrade that early. I usually build that way myself. I will often build a D chamber just before the hive, but not all of the time. Depends on what the marines are doing, which direction(s) they are expanding, etc.

I found that originally Gorges built this way, but once all of the "chamber order" threads started, Gorges starting building D chambers much earlier. And these days,skulks scream for it from the start, much like marines who whine for HMGs and Jetpacks really early. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

That is a fine build order, as long as the marines are not expaning towards your hive. Then it depends on your skulks, and how good they are (and if they are sitting in never used corners picking their teeth uselessly). <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

ogz · November 2002

trying to get skulls to protect you without giving them carapace is very risky...

not only can you lose all your resource nodes etc, the marines can rush your hive.

seen that happen once, quite funny too.

the previous game the marines were owning us quite hard at the start, and was like all at one of the hives building up and have control of another 2 resource or so when suddenly some skulk brings up the idea of rushing the CC. So we gathered up and waited for the last marine to get out of base, then all rushed in. Anyway we finished that game cos the marines took too long to walk back to spawn from the hive and phase was not up yet (another reason to get obs asap:)

next game we got overconfident, and threw a lot less chambers and more nodes... (and nothing at base)

The marines working as a group managed to kill us faster than us kill them, and suddenly 6 marines comes charging into our hive, we had about 3 skull and a gorg alive at the time and everyone rushed back, but we coudln't stop them. a skull spawning every 10 seconds or so, only to be pounded on by 6 marines is bad <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'>
the commander was dropping health/ammo kits like crazy too

we had a gorg saving up for 2nd hive at the time, but after the first hive died, the marines came shortly after and killd the gorg <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'>

Visser · November 2002

I usually go light on defense early on which i gorge (not often).

I also totally dont see the point of the gorges saving to build a lone def chamber as their first structure - lvl1 carpace or regen aint gonna help me for **obscenity**.

Bytor · November 2002

I've found that 2 gorges is the way to go, assuming at least 5 players on a team. One gorge secures resource nodes, and the other gorge builds defense chambers and offense chambers at the hives. The rest of the team can keep the marines busy by constantly rushing their base or their outposts if they've managed to move out quickly.

I ususally play the gorge that gets the resource nodes up quickly, and by the time I've built 3 or so, I'm pretty close to having enough resources in reserve to build the second hive. At that point I usually head to the second hive and ask the other gorge and/or a skulk to follow me there and back me up.

This has worked pretty well so far. Though it doesn't do much good against a determined and aggressive marine team that goes straight for a hive and sets up a secondary base there. In those cases you just have to hope your skulks are good enough to keep them busy, otherwise you'll be in a long drawn-out fight to take back the hive.

Nimbus · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bytor @ Nov 27 2002, 11:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I've found that 2 gorges is the way to go, assuming at least 5 players on a team. One gorge secures resource nodes, and the other gorge builds defense chambers and offense chambers at the hives. The rest of the team can keep the marines busy by constantly rushing their base or their outposts if they've managed to move out quickly.

I ususally play the gorge that gets the resource nodes up quickly, and by the time I've built 3 or so, I'm pretty close to having enough resources in reserve to build the second hive. At that point I usually head to the second hive and ask the other gorge and/or a skulk to follow me there and back me up.

This has worked pretty well so far. Though it doesn't do much good against a determined and aggressive marine team that goes straight for a hive and sets up a secondary base there. In those cases you just have to hope your skulks are good enough to keep them busy, otherwise you'll be in a long drawn-out fight to take back the hive.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
2 gorges with 5 players on a team?!! You should only need 1 gorge if you have under 10 players on a team.

Ravlen · November 2002

My strat has been this:
2 resources, 1 def chamber, 3rd resource (in the hive), save for hive.

By the time you start saving for the hive, the skulks should be at 33, so the resources will come fast enough. While the hive goes up, I defend that second hive, and let the skulks defend the first. Once it is up, I movement chamber to the first and defend it. Then I let the fades take back the third hive, which any respectable marine team should have taken long ago.

Skulks = Fast moving OC. The defensive chamber will let them survive maybe a second more. The skulks move fast enough that that extra second might mean the difference between getting killed, and taking out a whole squad of marines. At this point in the game, the skulks should be rushing the marines non stop, keeping them in base, and monitoring where they are going. The moment a resource is under attack, all skulks should rush it and kill everything there (rush together).

Haven't had this strat fail me really, unless I had a team of morons...

Ravlen

Bytor · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nimbus @ Nov 27 2002, 01:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
2 gorges with 5 players on a team?!! You should only need 1 gorge if you have under 10 players on a team.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
All depends on how you play it. For some strategies, 2 gorges works well, for some 1 is enough. It's not so cut-and-dried.

Fina · November 2002

Last night I played Gorge with another player, Chaos, on ns_nothing. We started in the Viaduct, and our first job was to get as many resource towers. We would switch out the purchase, by the time we had finished the tower and got to the next one, we had the points to build immediately. We had capped every Resource from Viaduct to Power Silo. Chaos saved for the hive, and had me start building our Defense towers. Of course, he had the hive up in no time, thanks to all the RP's we had pouring in. By the time the second hive was done, the Marines had taken the Cargo bay hive. But since we already had a second hive, the Marines were not prepared for our strength, as they had been spending all their RP's on fortifying it. Their base fell quickly to Fades backed up with Lerks and myself as a Gorge healing the damage about as fast as it happened. By the time we got the third hive up and running, the marines got HA/HMGs and started advancing on the Viaduct, but skilled Fades and the sheer power of the Onos took out whole squads of HA/HMGs, while Umbra and webs made it all the easier. We eventually crushed their forward base, and closed in on the main base. We had them stuck in their base with like four Onoses, Fades, Lerks, the whole thing. They would've fallen in five minutes, but the server crashed. Probably from all their turrets firing, they had a ton.

I know we would've won, and all because of good Gorges. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

ArsCaffeine · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wlibaers @ Nov 27 2002, 09:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Don't go Gorge unless you hear the "we need builders" message, you're on a very big team, or the other Gorge is doing stupid stuff.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
So when I'm a gorge, and I do an adren upgrade, everyone on the team should rush to Gorge?

Don't listen to the "We need builders". It's a silly in-game thing. I think we can do a little bit better with thinking for ourselves.

My Experiment (and A Bad Experience)

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