I'm about the refund the game
darres
USA Join Date: 2015-09-06 Member: 207760Members
USA Join Date: 2015-09-06 Member: 207760Members
Hello everyone
I just have a short complaint to make
I was playing ns2 on my comp when my lil'bro saw the game and expressed interest
I promised to buy him a copy when he passes calc 1 ( he's never been good with math) and if he gets an A in the class I'd buy the full game for him (dlc and all)
to my delight he actually did get an A in the class and we were both very excited
We looked forward to playing this game together and he told me how much he liked the cool armor with the visors
well, as you can already imagine, we were both shocked when we found out about the skins...
I purchased the whole bundle for him, the 52 dollar deal, but not only did he not get the black ops skin, he didn't even get the elite assault skin (I think that's what it's called)
Though he didn't show, I could feel his disappointment.
I understand that the black op skin was a limited time offer ( we missed it, that's fair) but it's a bit unreasonable to give him only 1 skin, well 2 but no one really uses the deluxe one
and you can hardly tell the difference of the alien skins
I've searched a lot of places and they all said u get the elite assault skin with the reinforced expansion
and in steam store there was hardly ANY description about the difference between ns2, deluxe addition and ns2:combat
I had to do a separate search to obtain all that information
it's a pretty poor marketing design to leave out all the important details eh?
so before i refund my whole purchase, will someone please let me know if i've made a mistake somewhere and missed the elite assault or black armor skin that I'm actually still able to acquire?
thank you
I just have a short complaint to make
I was playing ns2 on my comp when my lil'bro saw the game and expressed interest
I promised to buy him a copy when he passes calc 1 ( he's never been good with math) and if he gets an A in the class I'd buy the full game for him (dlc and all)
to my delight he actually did get an A in the class and we were both very excited
We looked forward to playing this game together and he told me how much he liked the cool armor with the visors
well, as you can already imagine, we were both shocked when we found out about the skins...
I purchased the whole bundle for him, the 52 dollar deal, but not only did he not get the black ops skin, he didn't even get the elite assault skin (I think that's what it's called)
Though he didn't show, I could feel his disappointment.
I understand that the black op skin was a limited time offer ( we missed it, that's fair) but it's a bit unreasonable to give him only 1 skin, well 2 but no one really uses the deluxe one
and you can hardly tell the difference of the alien skins
I've searched a lot of places and they all said u get the elite assault skin with the reinforced expansion
and in steam store there was hardly ANY description about the difference between ns2, deluxe addition and ns2:combat
I had to do a separate search to obtain all that information
it's a pretty poor marketing design to leave out all the important details eh?
so before i refund my whole purchase, will someone please let me know if i've made a mistake somewhere and missed the elite assault or black armor skin that I'm actually still able to acquire?
thank you
Comments
I'm sorry to hear your disappointment but both the black armor and the elite assault were limited time offers. The steam store pages of each DLC states clearly which skins are included so I'm not sure where you see the marketing issues.
A valid concern might be that costumers confuse the reinforcement pack dlc with the reinforcement program but then a look at the DLC's store page and a quick google search finding this news post should avoid any misunderstandings.
BTW your brother should have 3 marine skins avaible: Deluxe, Assault and Kodiak
And about your concerns about Combat: That game was made by FLG so it's totally out of CDTs reach, maybe @Hugh could make sure things get clearer there in the future.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/4920/discussions/0/613940478006908924/?insideModal=1
http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/reinforced-expansion-released/
literally the first 3 links that show up when you google search "natural selection 2 elite assault skin"
"The steam store pages of each DLC states clearly which skins are included so I'm not sure where you see the miss marketing."
It is because I didn't see the "ELITE assault" I did that "quick google search" you mentioned
and the first 3 links all mentioned elite assault was included in the reinforcement expansion/pack
hell almost all the links said so
even your own wiki says it's still available
lack of black armor (No longer available for purchase) poses a HUGE contrast of to the Elite assault (Available for Diamond and above Reward Tiers)
and when you click on that link of " reinforcement program" on the wiki, it doesn't show you any reinforcement program related content nor mentions of the armor being
not available
even the link you showed behind reinforcement program is quite buggy
Edit: I do want to thank you for mentioning the kodiak armor
Oh well i will try to talk to the persons in charge. Basically the issue here is that the reinforcement program website was just shut down without leaving any kind of notice. The link i posted is from web.archive.org (allows you to look into the past).
And again as stated before your confusion seems to come from mixing up the reinforcement program (funding programm from 2013) and reinforcement package (DLC from 2014 after the program was shut down).
it's partly responsible but i posted here because i wanted a question answered...about why i wasn't getting the armor
the issue is this entire new player experience has been a gigantic f**k you
the aliens are significantly harder to pick up than marines, an immediate turn off
it also result in a lopsided marine population
and when the number of players are balanced, the skill levels are not because most new players tend to favor the marines due to the nature of the game and how difficult the aliens
are to play for newbies
you can do the forced shuffle but it is the new players who end up getting the shaft because most likely they'll be forced to play aliens which they don't enjoy
there's also the lack of players, I don't know what other mistakes were made along the way since release but, the amount of players, wait time and attempt at balance before each game
is just plain irritating
then of course, there's the armor skin
yeah I understand the need for some players to feel special
they feel privileged to have been there since beta and entitled to some reward
but is it really in EVERYBODY's best interest to exclude two of the coolest armors?
with so many things stacked against the new players, they can only further feed veteran players' ego everytime they comment about their armor
if i'm ganna get rekt at least let me die in a badass uniform
which is more responsible, letting the game die or keeping up with the exclusive armor promise
yeah they'll be the chosen few who have it but it's all meaningless when they're the only ones in the server
never before have I seen a game so repulsive to new players
for better or worse, it makes me want to keep an eye out for future games by this company
i'm sure there are many who disagree with me but I think the number of players speaks for itself
Also, we are still in the summer months, NS2 playerbase always rebounds slightly during the winter.
Yes the game is hard for new people to pick up, and ultimately is one of it's biggest problems, however when you do pick it up, it is an immensely satisfying game.
NS2 is a hard game, you have to be willing to dedicate time and effort to get good at it and get any form of reward. It's an old school hardcore shooter, with a lot of things to take into consideration: aim, tracking, positioning, situational awareness, map awareness, to name but a few.
Efforts are being made to make this a bit easier for new players to pick up, but this will always be a hardcore old school shooter. You have to be a certain kind of gamer to get enjoyment out of these games.
But he starts by saying he has had the game before and that's what made his brother interested in it.
So if you knew about all these problems with the game, why did you buy a copy of the game for your brother?
The game has many problems as we have extensively discussed over the past few years. Don't try to bring attention to your personal deficiencies in ability to understand what kind of game this is by starting a topic about skins.
If you don't like the game, that's your problem.
Either there are players or there is not - The nuances and causations are irrelevant to the consumer. It is a valid complaint and a valid reason to demand a refund imo. Of course I would prefer the guy and his brother stayed, but from what I can tell, this guy is absolutely in his right to demand a refund and should not be attacked for it.
Why quote me and say he shouldn't be attacked? I haven't attacked anyone. I just pointed a few things out in response to comments about playerbase and the difficulty of the game.
If you think that is an attack, you will be in for a shock should I ever attack anyone, lol
you must excuse me
that was a rage induced, sleep deprived and alcohol influenced comment
I can understand if some feel the need to come forth with a more...firm stance
you have every right
nevertheless it was still a legitimate truth
less eloquent but with every bit of authenticity
with that said, yes I did purchase the game early on but I have not played that much since
it was part of a sales bundle, should my memory not fail me
my total playtime clocks just a little over 9 hours (in the span of couple years)
not extensive but I can say I gave an honest effort to enjoy the game
I read that the community is trying to improve new player's experience and I am giving you the newest feedback
reasons above have already explained why I think the game is discouraging to new players, I'm sure you all are tired
of discussing such; therefore I will not mention them again
I do want to say, however, I've yet to catch these steps that suppose to inspire "dedications" from new players
notice I didn't say interest
perhaps I did focus a little too much on the skins, but it was one of the things that disappoint me the most so I'll give it the most attention
how do you think it makes us feel, the new players, that one of the best content of this game is forever lost to us
My suggestion is to make the armors available again as unlockables
it would close the discrepancy between the new and old players
and an additional reason, a goal, for us to continue playing
who knows, maybe along the way some of us might come around
(fine, keep the black armor exclusive, least give us the elite assault, it fits the theme anyways)
much better than
"oh i'm ganna keep playing until I like it!" <-- by no means is that a good way to keep, let alone expand, your player base
of course that would require a small but superficial sacrifice from the veteran players
lastly, @SupaDupaNoodle it is players like me you should look out for
God knows how many players came and went without giving a flying f**k
But I am willing to make compromise, suggestions, and contributions
I am willing to give the game a second, even a third look
may it be my stubbornness, or that I see the potential in this game
call it what you want
but i'm still here, trying to make things work
I'm sorry about the confusion you've suffered; this game has had a bit of a confusing history. I'm only really squared away on it because I've been here for a good chunk of it. I can certainly understand how all this could be confusing: "reinforcement program", "reinforcement pack", "shadow badge", "shadow dlc", "shadow skin (some but not all...)", etc etc.
I knew it was confusing before, but I didn't realize the degree to which it was turning off new players.
Thank you for taking the time to write these posts to let us know. No doubt most players would simply quit playing and leave us to guess why.
Sorry to see you go, but check back with us every once in a while. We've got some big things planned for NS2.
Am sure there is alot off players that would'nt agree with that, if anything produce a new set of skins for a DLC that is somewhat better... so everyone can enjoy.
Something similar happened during reinforcement when Onos level ran out. Charlie emailed everyone and asked if we'd mind releasing more Onos levels as many had missed out. I had no problem with that at all, but apparently enough people did so it wasn't expanded.
It's just a fucking game people, stop being so precious over a collection of 1s and 0s.
just a shit game? Really... bit far...
And i dont agree with that at all, AT the time maybe if the deadline was just over, and people had just missed out then that would'nt annoy me at all if it was increased so other could get it, but not nearly 3 years later, people did have what? 3 years from 2009+ to get into NS2 from alpha to release in 2012, So i sorta feel its there loss, Yes i get that some didnt get a chance at all because they didnt know about the game, but why punish those that did??
Yes i dont want to let go off my black armour, and i highly doubt it will ever be re-introduced - if it is, then the game is clearly done.
I missed out on the Spec Ops Black Armor deadline which came when you purchased NS2 in its alpha stages by about two weeks, you don't see myself or many others sulking about it, its just a skin re-texture, nothing more.
The game has been out for quite awhile now with plenty of time and pre warning about the Reinforcement Program closing down.
Get alot of practice in, see yourself rise in skill in time and you'll notice it doesn't matter what skin they die in, the result is all the same, a mountain of corpses at your feet and grin on your face.
And what's the point of having a unique skin if the servers are empty?
I had similar issues playing this game initially on aliens to you (though I came into the game shortly after release), so I can certainly empathize with your experiment. Trust me when I say it though, once you get over the hump the game becomes infinitely more enjoyable. When I was starting there were excellent YouTube video tutorials that were up to date with all the patch changes, etc. Unfortunately I don't think there are any good training videos anymore due to the amount of changes introduced over the years. This combined with the higher overall skill level of the player base due to the lack of new players has turned the game into much more of a meat grinder than it used to be as well.....
It's not that we really even care all that much about cosmetics. After all, nobody I've encountered in-game does. Hell, I didn't buy any of the other DLC, including elite assault armour, so it's not like I go around showing off my pretty skins to people going "nyah nyah, look what you don't have" and stroke my ego. I understand if it's easier to think of those protective about their exclusive content that way, but that's your problem, not ours. Personally I just bought the Special Edition because I loved NS1 and wanted to donate more than the regular asking price to support the game's development.
Whilst we don't care about the way we're dressed, the action of taking the exclusivity away for a quick buck would be taking these customers for granted now that the preorder revenue is no longer needed. Sure, many would love to get black armour, but it's something that should be an even greater concern to everybody if UWE starts a precedent of breaking promises to their customers. You can't just sell special edition preorders as strictly and unequivocally limited to raise extra cash while money is tight, and then make it not limited after you've already got the money from their pockets. It's a pretty shitty way to treat people and I wouldn't stand for it.
It's not the skin, it's the principle - that being, if you no longer need a customer's money to stay afloat, you still keep promises made to them when you did. Already having their money shouldn't change things, nor should pressure from other customers when no such promises were made to them.
Would be made to feel unappreciated as an early supporter.
Trust and respect for UWE.
If servers are empty, what's the point of reintroducing the skin? It goes both ways - not just one way to suit your own argument.
And it's not as if reintroducing it will make the servers any less empty...
1. skins: This has been addressed by other very well, so I won't dwell on it, except to give you my story; I was a avid NS1 player, and would have loved to give the game alpha a go, but at the time, I was studying and didn't have alot of income, so I didn't get the game until the first day of official release. I drool over people that have the cool black armour, and wished I could get it. But understand this was the developer's way to saying thank you to those that pre-ordered (they didn't even know if the game would be released at all - long story).
2. New player meat grinder: this is definitely the nature of this game (it is complex and uncompromising). Tutorials will help as @BeigeAlert has mentioned. Manuals (like mine), and the wiki is helpful to get an idea of what is going on, but nothing beats playing the game with people to guide you. This is getting harder not because the community doesn't want to help new players, but because new players assume we (the vets) don't want to help. It took me about 200 hours of play to feel I actually know what I am doing and get to really enjoy the game, and this was back when the general skill level of the players were much much lower. I am almost 1000 hrs now (well 950), and can say I am about an average player now. So you can see the kind of skill gap and ceiling this game has.
I hope you will give the game another chance, but would totally understand if you don't as this game is really really hard to get into. But once you know it and get hooked there is just nothing else like it out there.
Don't you remember "I Did It For the Black Armor" ?
There's plenty of other skins to sell. Why not the shadow skins? Only the skulk is available right now, right?
You make an assumption UWE would just do this without consultation. Like with Onos, I'd recommend Charlie poll all special edition owners -- but hope that enough understood the value of re-releasing it to vote in favour.
I understand you feel that way, but would you put that aside for the good of the game if it came to that? And especially in your case as you say that don't care about skins (so you're not attached to it).
If we had tens of thousands of players this wouldn't even have come up, but we don't. Why not do everything we can (including all the other initiatives CDT has planned) to help?
Well, it would. People like using the new things they buy, and we have one chap in this very thread wanting to show it off in-game. So...
I know, I'm one of them
But I'm also not precious about a virtual possession when, in the long run, all that matters is that NS2 continues and we have a community to play with. Between keeping my goodies in a game nobody plays anymore, or giving up that exclusivity so others have an incentive to buy/play, I know which I choose.
Oh definitely, this too. It's clear from this thread though that black armor is a popular attraction, hence the discussion.
And there is alot of other skins that have been put into the game with more to come, its unfair to say that you will not play this game because you cant get the black spec ops. I doubt you would say that about any other game you play because there is something you cant get? you wont play it?
Offering more onoses was mentioned, but it also feels unfair to do so; but nothing prevent UW from doing another compaign and what-not (they could even do a new ~200$ badge and give it to Onos-badge owner while making it purchasable). Or simply re-open the reinforced program (not sure why it was closed, it could have been pending infinitely =3).
Regarding your issues Darress, if your little brother didn't play much you might be eligible for Steam refund (that was implemented not so long ago by Valve, I don't know about his play-time though).
There are also tutorials that you can watch (within the NS2 client). It was said multiple time though that yes, pushing a new player in NS2 without a playable tutorial is a bit stupid, and to some extent of bad taste for newcomers.
I might recommend asking for help within game; people will usually answer (i.e. "I'm new, what should I do right now ?", "How do I go fast as a skulk?"). If you're a rookie and not communicating (mic or even keyboard) nor trying to understand the game, then this game will be hard to learn, and thus hard to have fun with. It is a team game after all.
I couldn't get onos badge because it was a day where I was in class for 6 hours and didn't see the update before the TEN of them sold. That's just fucking over your dedicated players. Shouldn't have even asked whoever bought them, should have just refunded them if they complained.
i felt more punished when UWE decided to drop what 272 on us?
the one with the Orange and white death and a performance hit to boot. To QA a visual nerf to aliens for the sake of art and ego.
over it now, but those were not good times.
Yea that's where you do 10/10 on the Art Book, and continue selling without the artbook.. Not that I regret getting the shadow badge instead anyway, since they abandoned the game either way
That's in the past. I don't have the skin, and I accept that I don't have it because I didn't commit to the game back then because I really thought it wouldn't ever come out. Others had more faith, paid for it, and now have the reward. I don't begrudge them.
We must never go down the path of rewarding whiners and easy-fix -ers who come out with random schemes to satisfy their own passing fancies, all in the name of "bringing player numbers back".
Ain't gonna happen.
This.
The novelty wears off after awhile, every player I've met that dons a black armor, just goes "EHHH...".
A single skin won't help player retention, a solution to stacking and a better tutorial experience for rookies will.
Exactly, Having a skin dont make you play any better, just makes you feel bad when you cant kill a skulk thats running right at you