Good luck with an underwater game - you'll need it.

ResRes Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20245Members Posts: 626
There is a reason why there are very few underwater games out there or even games that have any sort of underwater "levels/quests/etc.". No game has ever done the camera view and control of your character underwater very well, especially near the surface of the water.

It's also more than that though, many people psychologically do not like the feeling of playing something that is slow and lumbering, which your character would be underwater, let alone any claustrophic feelings some people may have with a limited view distance underwater.

Many many games that have tried to incorporate some sort of underwater level or underwater aspect in their game have gotten feedback saying that is one of their worst levels/quests/etc.

Now if you take away these "drawbacks", such as your character/submarine being slow turning/moving and make draw distance extremely high, then why not just have this game in space? ... I know I'd much prefer all the features mentioned in this game in space rather than underwater.
meatmachine
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Comments

  • EucomolhamasEucomolhamas Join Date: 2013-03-10 Member: 183841Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 120 Advanced user
    What I'm expecting from the game is exactly what is the hard part: it being underwater instead of in space. The thing is, IF they do it well and find a way to get rid of those usual underwater problems, this actually might be the big game, since everything's in space these days, the sea is just so different.
    LumpN
  • whoppaXXLwhoppaXXL Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58298Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 711 Fully active user
    Oldschool underwater games nailed it pretty well and were considered pretty succesful.
    With all the new technology in the industry, UWE's creativity and our love for their games there should be enough power to create or innovate this niche of games.

    I'm just not too sure about that "procedural generated world" hype lately. But we'll see.
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  • Maxx11_v2.0Maxx11_v2.0 Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172221Members Posts: 274
    The first thing that comes to mind when I think of a 3D underwater game is "Aquaman: Battle for Atlantis" for the Game Cube. As I understand it, it's the closest anyone ever got to Superman 64. The bar isn't exactly high so as long as they don't trump Aquaman it won't be the worst underwater game ever made :)

    Seriously though, as I already mentioned in the other thread, the concept doesn't grab me personally but I'm positive theres plenty of people who would love this sort of thing. Also, bare in mind that just because its "underwater" doesn't mean that it has to be realistic. Its just a setting, they can make the physics any way they want.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members Posts: 2,774 Advanced user
    Good old Subculture is quite wonferful combination of aquatic combat, world exploration and a bit of storyline. I can definitely enjoy the genre, but the idea needs to be way more fleshed out than this before I may start getting excited or even particularly interested.
    RisingSunPaajtor
  • McGlaspieMcGlaspie www.team156.com Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 966 admin
    Obraxis wrote: »
    Space has been done to death. We know more about the moon than we do about life in our oceans. It's a completely alien environment and it will allow some amazing and different ideas to come to the surface.
    Oh Obby, you so punny.

    Personally, I'm quite interested in this. It's still going to be a Sci-Fi game. There are just about as many ways to solve the problems people are apprehensive about as the limits of one's imagination. Not too mention, this is going to be a sinlgeplayer game (afaik). Which really changes the gameplay design equation quite a bit. With Cory's visual imagination and Charlie's design brain (come on guys, he came up with NS...), and the tack on the skill of the rest of the group; I'm pumped.

  • KwisatzHaderachKwisatzHaderach Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143872Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 368 Fully active user
    edited December 2013
    Anyone who has ever played Archimedean Dynasty (aka Schleichfahrt, the predecessor to the mediocre AquaNox) knows how well an underwater setting can work in a computer game. Combat aside, the atmosphere of that game was stellar.
    Subnautica being sci-fi will allow for enough room to find an explanation for more agile movement of your submarine if gameplay calls for it.
    On the other hand I wouldn't mind a game with slower pace as long as the atmosphere of being hundreds or even thousands of meters beneath the ocean is conveyed in an enjoyable way.

    Having said all that, I must admit that the OP isn't totally wrong. There are a lot of games that don't provide an enjoyable underwater experience. But consider that most of these games are build around terrestrial game mechanics with the aquatic bits just added as a change of scenery. Subnautica will probably be build from the ground up with that setting in mind.
    Also: look at what they achieved with NS(2). Look at the complexity and uniqueness of that game and how well it all comes together; something that is unrivaled in gaming industry. I believe if there is a dev out there that can make this concept work, it is UWE! I'm thrilled for Subnautica and I'm certain it is going to be a success.
    McGlaspieLumpN
  • clankill3rclankill3r Join Date: 2007-09-03 Member: 62145Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 204 Advanced user
    I think in most games underwater is a extra for the 1% of the time a player get's in the water. UWE builds up from the start with the focus of being underwater and i think that makes quite a difference. And about being underwater slow, i think they will make a suit or a submobile for faster traveling.

    Also there is a reason why there aren't many games like ns2, but luckly enought that didn't stop UWE either. I prefer they work on a big fail that brings something new then going the save way and bring something we all know.
  • SolarisSolaris Join Date: 2003-05-11 Member: 16213Members Posts: 185
    I freely admit I absolutely HATE underwater passages in pretty much every FPS I've played. In almost all cases the visibility is severly reduced to make nagivation harder and creating an atmosphere of constant danger (it is a lot harder to identify objects as neutral or enemy; and if it's an enemy it's already in your face!). I really really don't like this claustrophobic setting, and I bet there are others as well.
    If you look at the paralells of underwater and space games, visibility is one mayor difference. While space is a hostile environsment, flying around in a fighter does not give me any claustrophobia or constant feeling of danger. Because I can see what's around me for a hundert kilometers.
    I remember playing Aquanox back in the day, which was basically a wingcommander-underwater. They did a lot of stuff right. Visibility was ok-ish, sonar, etc. helped a lot, too.
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  • NazoNazo Such Is Life in The Zone Join Date: 2010-12-16 Member: 75720Members, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Posts: 293 Fully active user
    @Solaris

    If you think Subnautica is going to have all those elements you listed that bug you, you dont have to buy/play it

    And also, I think everything you listed would be elements needed for a realistic/Sci-Fi underwater exploration game
    Vetinari
  • PaajtorPaajtor Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168634Members Posts: 308 Advanced user
    Bacillus wrote: »
    Good old Subculture is quite wonferful combination of aquatic combat, world exploration and a bit of storyline. I can definitely enjoy the genre, but the idea needs to be way more fleshed out than this before I may start getting excited or even particularly interested.
    I agree....Subculture was one of my 1st pc-games, and I enjoyed it allot!
    Especially the missions that needed the ROV to use.

    Also bought Deep Fighter from the same developer, but it was rubbish.

  • ErathicErathic [email protected] Join Date: 2013-12-16 Member: 190193Members Posts: 4
    Gears Of War 3 did a great job representing submarine/underwater environement, too bad it's a very small portion of the game, and you can't pilot the sub.
    I can't wait to see what a fully underwater dedicated game could look and play.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdwArVA0ciw

    Also recently Assassin Creed 4 feature some interesting underwater stealth gameplay

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6YL9p-TuCY

    Nebuscelous
  • SebSeb Melbourne, AU Join Date: 2013-04-01 Member: 184576Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Retired Community Developer Posts: 514 mod
    edited December 2013
    Erathic wrote: »
    Gears Of War 3 did a great job representing submarine/underwater environement, too bad it's a very small portion of the game, and you can't pilot the sub.
    I can't wait to see what a fully underwater dedicated game could look and play.

    Also recently Assassin Creed 4 feature some interesting underwater stealth gameplay


    See, while I think both of those games do the underwater thing well, I would LOVE to see an underwater setting that isn't dark, dreary and foreboding but rather full of life, colour, and fictionalised plantlife and creatures. I think that the concept art really shows a unique way of looking at the ocean that isn't trying to be realistic, but more fantasy.

    I'm trying to think of something that accurately describes the look that I would like to see from an underwater game, but it is definitely along the lines of the concept art for sure. I did like how Mirrors Edge used colour so effectively, even if it came off as a bit repetitive. But then again, its a different setting and its only in 1 place (city). If you have different biodomes underwater, the possibilities are endless in terms of variety and diversity from a level design and artistic perspective. I can't wait!

    Edit: I thought about some movies that share the same colour palette and maybe the the same 'vibe'. Avatar is one that springs to mind, especially with the flora in some of the scenes on Pandora. Maybe its time for a UWE movie sesh for inspiration? :D If anyone can think of something similar, help me out here!

    KwisatzHaderachelodea
  • KarbaKarba Join Date: 2006-09-23 Member: 58040Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 175
    Good luck with your new proyect, I'll keep an eye on it, though I'm afraid NS2 further development will be slow down quite a bit.
  • duke_Qaduke_Qa Join Date: 2007-09-22 Member: 62405Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 70
    I'm thinking of two words that may make this a great success: Oculus Rift

    Beyond that, I had my doubts when I first saw the announcement, but when I remembered what sort of tech we're looking at the next few years, I can imagine that this will be a very good game to merge with that technology.
    LumpN
  • HughHugh Cameraman San Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 1,779 admin
    Karba wrote: »
    Good luck with your new proyect, I'll keep an eye on it, though I'm afraid NS2 further development will be slow down quite a bit.

    http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/what-subnautica-means-for-ns2-development/
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  • KwisatzHaderachKwisatzHaderach Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143872Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 368 Fully active user
    the underwater thing well, I would LOVE to see an underwater setting that isn't dark, dreary and foreboding but rather full of life, colour, and fictionalised plantlife and creatures. I think that the concept art really shows a unique way of looking at the ocean that isn't trying to be realistic, but more fantasy.

    I'm trying to think of something that accurately describes the look that I would like to see from an underwater game, but it is definitely along the lines of the concept art for sure. I did like how Mirrors Edge used colour so effectively, even if it came off as a bit repetitive. But then again, its a different setting and its only in 1 place (city). If you have different biodomes underwater, the possibilities are endless in terms of variety and diversity from a level design and artistic perspective. I can't wait!

    Edit: I thought about some movies that share the same colour palette and maybe the the same 'vibe'. Avatar is one that springs to mind, especially with the flora in some of the scenes on Pandora. Maybe its time for a UWE movie sesh for inspiration? :D If anyone can think of something similar, help me out here!

    Totally agree on the first two paragraphs! Can't comment specifically on Avatar since I haven't seen that film, and I honestly can't think of a film that puts a focus on depicting alien flora and fauna... Since you mentioned colour palette though: that is actually going to be one of the few restrictions I doubt they'll be able to overcome, that the deeper you go the more all VIS frequencies except blue are absorbed by the water. So it will be difficult to explain a colourful deep sea (maybe alien oceans have different physical properties).

    Oh, and it is BIOMES, not BIODOMES
    :P :-B
  • SebSeb Melbourne, AU Join Date: 2013-04-01 Member: 184576Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Retired Community Developer Posts: 514 mod

    Totally agree on the first two paragraphs! Can't comment specifically on Avatar since I haven't seen that film, and I honestly can't think of a film that puts a focus on depicting alien flora and fauna... Since you mentioned colour palette though: that is actually going to be one of the few restrictions I doubt they'll be able to overcome, that the deeper you go the more all VIS frequencies except blue are absorbed by the water. So it will be difficult to explain a colourful deep sea (maybe alien oceans have different physical properties).

    Oh, and it is BIOMES, not BIODOMES
    :P :-B

    Rofl whoops, too much NS2! :D

    It may be more difficult to explain for sure, but why not break the restrictions of realism? That's why we play video games yeah? I think that a deep sea that explodes with colourful plant life, lava, bio luminescent things, etc would be really cool, but again, its just my wishlist.

    I'm getting mixed messages from the concept art and the descriptions of what the game will be about in this regard, (Fantasy or Realism) but I don't find the way that AC IV and GoW3 did the water sequences very appealing. Even Crysis 3 was pretty meh for underwater sequences, and that game was beautiful in terms of graphics and colour palette.

  • Fluid CoreFluid Core Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63260Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 403 Advanced user
    Oceans can be very bright, colorful and vivid with plenty of wildlife. Just youtube some coral reefs. That's the thing though, it's mostly limited to near surface. But deep see do contain lighting and bioluminescence, that along with sound is one of the main ways of communicating in the dark (not murky) waters down below. But keep in mind that this is a Sci-fi setting. We can have access to many kind of different sensors, thermal, optical, sonar, electrical and so on to track and see the enviroment around us. Just because you can't see far with the naked eye when your thousands of meter below the surface, doesn't mean you can't see things in other ways... Just have to get the right sensors for your submarine! That's one of the things I hope for, being able to optimize your submarine for what you're after, deep sea exploration/mapping/resource harvesting or shallow water research? There's so much you can do with an underwater setting that brings so much more depth then what you get in space.
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  • ellnicellnic Join Date: 2010-07-19 Member: 72559Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 915 Advanced user
    I am sure they will do a good job with out luck, but it always helps
  • SteveRockSteveRock Join Date: 2012-10-01 Member: 161215Members, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer Posts: 486 Advanced user
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 3,432 Advanced user
    I must say I agree with @Obraxis on this one, space HAS been done to death, and I believe something like 95% of our oceans are unexplored. There's a lot that could be done and hasn't been done before in this genre.

    Will have to see if it pays off.
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  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation Posts: 2,415 mod
  • shriikeshriike Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184461Members Posts: 191 Fully active user
    UWE please remake Echo the Dolphin.
    "Let's get him shrike." - Hugh (Strayan).
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  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 3,432 Advanced user
    I want to see a megalodon, BF4 failed to deliver.
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  • TwigTwig Australia Join Date: 2013-11-09 Member: 189225Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 115 Fully active user
    edited December 2013
    I believe that if UWE get this game right (which I hope they will) it will be more sucsessful than NS2.

    It's unique
    It has so much potential
    It doesn't use the spark engine (I have no problem with spark myself, however a lot of people are having performance issues with it, which makes some people not want to play)
    UWE already have a big following, so not only will you get a lot of the NS2 players getting SN, but you open yourself to a much larger audience.

    SN has already got a lot of publicity, there are article about it from Eurogamer, The Escapist, Joystiq, Polygon and many more.

    So I therefore believe that the title of this post should be changed to "GOOD LUCK WITH AN UNDERWATER GAME - NOT THAT YOU'LL NEED IT."
    CarNagE1Flayra
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
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