Fear - The Real Marine Killer
Rolling_Rock
Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8677Members
Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8677Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Combatting the Marine's Greatest Enemy</div> Yes, this is a game. Yes, none of it is real. But yes, people are still AFRAID in this game. Like in the real world, they are afraid of dying, they don't want to, for it means they lose time, dignity, and possibly that nice shotgun or hmg, HA, or jetpack or whatever nice toys they had.
However, this fear does not exist for the marines alone, but I see it manifesting mostly in the marines.
Often when I see alien encounters where fades and lerks are involved, I see marines running away. Or they'll play the "peekaboo" game with Fades and lerks, exchanging shots, perhaps wounding one, but then falling back when the fade or lerk ducks behind a corridor.
The truth is, Fades aren't as nasty as they are made out to be, nor are lerks for that matter. Even the Onos is quite mortal, though it takes some footwork and a lot of accurate shooting to take one down. The problem is marines running away and not following up on damage done to aliens.
Most aliens have regeneration, and those that don't get carapace and then retreat to a defensive chamber to heal up their damage. From playing aliens, I know full well that a HMG can very quickly cut a fade to pieces in a short time, and even a LMG can do some serious damage to a Fade in quick order. Just last night I watched three fades get gunned down by a HMG/HA marine. ALL 3 fades (including myself) closed in on the marine, he cornered himself, crouched down, and just layed open his HMG. Down went one fade, the next went in and started whacking, he died seconds later. Then I came in, thinking that marine was almost dead and out of ammo. Nope, he still had enough to drop me. The irony was a skulk came in seconds later and killed him with one chomp, but the lesson to be learned here is that even one HMG can cut fades to pieces.
It's common now for aliens to do Defensive Chamber first, and a Movement chamber for the 2nd hive. This means they favor adrenaline and regeneration/carapace over cloaking. A common alien tactic when confronting marines and turrets, is to fire acid rockets, take a little damage, then retreat around a corner to regenerate health and energy to do it again. Meanwhile the marines aren't gaining much health and armor back, if any, so after a few cycles, several marines are left dead. Why? Because they played into the fade's game and lost to it's superior combat endurance.
Whenever you hit an alien with a gun, hmg especially, they take more damage than you think, and if you see one retreat around a corner, CHASE HIM. That's right, go around the corner after him, and gun the **obscenity** down. 9 times out of 10, when I do this as a marine, the ALIEN runs away....or TRIES to, rather. You see, when the aliens retreat around the corner, they are wounded, possibly severely, and low on energy. Half your work is done for you, you just need to go over there and finish the job.
HMGs work especially well for this. Common encounter - fade fires some rockets, perhaps hits you with one or two, you return fire and hit him a several times. Fade retreats around the corner with 40-60% of his health left to regenerate. At this point, the fade is vulnerable, and the marine too is wounded. Many marines wait for the fade to pop back out again, but this doesn't remove the problem, he'll just keep retreating for energy and health whenver he starts to get low. You remove the problem b going after him when he does that and finishing the job.
Suddenly fades are a lot less scary. The're hit-and-run masters. If you get too close, they'll close and melee ou, but if you keep a good medium distance, they will keep backing away, tring to fire what few acid rockets they can wih their depleted energy. And if ou already have them wounded, they fall.
Fear prevents most marines from chasing the enemy and finishing the job. Don't play their hit-and-run game, and don't be afraid to die. Even if all you have is a LMG, that lmg can do 500 damage in a single clip (50 rounds, 10 damage each round) Even your pistol can do 200 in those 10 shots. Your typical fade has 200 health and 125 armor. At most you're dealing with a fade with the rough equivalent of 350 health if you're factoring in carapace. A full LMG clip will do a lot of damage - provided you actuall HIT with it. If you unload a clip at a fade, and your'e sure ou hit him quite a bit, start running and reloading, ready to round that corner, press on him, and unload another clip into him. He will go down, especially if like you, he's afraid to die and doesn't wnat to go through the trouble and time of morphing again and getting back there. He'll try to run away, or if ou get too close, he'll melee you. Keep that ideal distance so he doesn't, and keep firing.
Once you learn that the aliens aren't invincible - only when you give them time to heal and don't follow-up, your success in killing them is much more assured. Also, it helps to play aliens and get a feel for just how much damage those marine weapons do. it's more than you think, and even a short burst from a LMG can give you thoughts to fall back and do a little healing.
If a whole group of marines isn't afraid of fades or other aliens and doesn't play their hit-and-run game, then it becomes utterly amazing how easy it is to mow them down.
Understand the fear, and understand the reality.
Your foe is mortal, just as you are, and your weapons hurt him a lot. If he steps back, chances are, just like you, he's injured, possibly severely. That is the ideal time to press the attack and finish the job.
Know no fear of your foes.
However, this fear does not exist for the marines alone, but I see it manifesting mostly in the marines.
Often when I see alien encounters where fades and lerks are involved, I see marines running away. Or they'll play the "peekaboo" game with Fades and lerks, exchanging shots, perhaps wounding one, but then falling back when the fade or lerk ducks behind a corridor.
The truth is, Fades aren't as nasty as they are made out to be, nor are lerks for that matter. Even the Onos is quite mortal, though it takes some footwork and a lot of accurate shooting to take one down. The problem is marines running away and not following up on damage done to aliens.
Most aliens have regeneration, and those that don't get carapace and then retreat to a defensive chamber to heal up their damage. From playing aliens, I know full well that a HMG can very quickly cut a fade to pieces in a short time, and even a LMG can do some serious damage to a Fade in quick order. Just last night I watched three fades get gunned down by a HMG/HA marine. ALL 3 fades (including myself) closed in on the marine, he cornered himself, crouched down, and just layed open his HMG. Down went one fade, the next went in and started whacking, he died seconds later. Then I came in, thinking that marine was almost dead and out of ammo. Nope, he still had enough to drop me. The irony was a skulk came in seconds later and killed him with one chomp, but the lesson to be learned here is that even one HMG can cut fades to pieces.
It's common now for aliens to do Defensive Chamber first, and a Movement chamber for the 2nd hive. This means they favor adrenaline and regeneration/carapace over cloaking. A common alien tactic when confronting marines and turrets, is to fire acid rockets, take a little damage, then retreat around a corner to regenerate health and energy to do it again. Meanwhile the marines aren't gaining much health and armor back, if any, so after a few cycles, several marines are left dead. Why? Because they played into the fade's game and lost to it's superior combat endurance.
Whenever you hit an alien with a gun, hmg especially, they take more damage than you think, and if you see one retreat around a corner, CHASE HIM. That's right, go around the corner after him, and gun the **obscenity** down. 9 times out of 10, when I do this as a marine, the ALIEN runs away....or TRIES to, rather. You see, when the aliens retreat around the corner, they are wounded, possibly severely, and low on energy. Half your work is done for you, you just need to go over there and finish the job.
HMGs work especially well for this. Common encounter - fade fires some rockets, perhaps hits you with one or two, you return fire and hit him a several times. Fade retreats around the corner with 40-60% of his health left to regenerate. At this point, the fade is vulnerable, and the marine too is wounded. Many marines wait for the fade to pop back out again, but this doesn't remove the problem, he'll just keep retreating for energy and health whenver he starts to get low. You remove the problem b going after him when he does that and finishing the job.
Suddenly fades are a lot less scary. The're hit-and-run masters. If you get too close, they'll close and melee ou, but if you keep a good medium distance, they will keep backing away, tring to fire what few acid rockets they can wih their depleted energy. And if ou already have them wounded, they fall.
Fear prevents most marines from chasing the enemy and finishing the job. Don't play their hit-and-run game, and don't be afraid to die. Even if all you have is a LMG, that lmg can do 500 damage in a single clip (50 rounds, 10 damage each round) Even your pistol can do 200 in those 10 shots. Your typical fade has 200 health and 125 armor. At most you're dealing with a fade with the rough equivalent of 350 health if you're factoring in carapace. A full LMG clip will do a lot of damage - provided you actuall HIT with it. If you unload a clip at a fade, and your'e sure ou hit him quite a bit, start running and reloading, ready to round that corner, press on him, and unload another clip into him. He will go down, especially if like you, he's afraid to die and doesn't wnat to go through the trouble and time of morphing again and getting back there. He'll try to run away, or if ou get too close, he'll melee you. Keep that ideal distance so he doesn't, and keep firing.
Once you learn that the aliens aren't invincible - only when you give them time to heal and don't follow-up, your success in killing them is much more assured. Also, it helps to play aliens and get a feel for just how much damage those marine weapons do. it's more than you think, and even a short burst from a LMG can give you thoughts to fall back and do a little healing.
If a whole group of marines isn't afraid of fades or other aliens and doesn't play their hit-and-run game, then it becomes utterly amazing how easy it is to mow them down.
Understand the fear, and understand the reality.
Your foe is mortal, just as you are, and your weapons hurt him a lot. If he steps back, chances are, just like you, he's injured, possibly severely. That is the ideal time to press the attack and finish the job.
Know no fear of your foes.
Comments
So many times I have been in a group of marines that encouters a Fade and they all turn tail and run! I charge after the fade with my HMG blazing and he doesn't last long, when he realized what I was doing he only has time to fire off maybe 1 or 2 more acid rockets before he dies.
After spending plenty of time cowering from fades I was surprized how fast they will die to an HMG when you chase them down like that. =)
And they shall know no fear.....
Cost : 2 resources
Build time : ~15 seconds
One Adrenal/Regeneration upgraded Fade
Cost : 48 resources
Build time : >30 seconds
Yet, if both of them charge the fade at medium-close range, and assuming they are equal in skill, two LMG/LA marines WILL take out a Fade.
If 2 resources worth of units could take out a 48 resource unit in a strategy game, that would be a very strong counter!
If you're a freshly respawned marine and there's a Fade in your base, charge him!!! Fades regenerate health and ammo, you don't. The longer a battle drags on, the more of an advantage the fade has - so end the battle as soon as possible - either he dies or you die, in either case you've done some damage and you are only worth 1 resource point anyways.
If you have a few light marines, I think they have to know whether they need to charge or retreat, then do that together. A couple marines streaming one by one to a fade will generally die, as will one or two marines defending an area, while the rest run away. If the commander can tell the players their priorities, they can make this decision better when they see that fade.
1) i'm gonna be startled. its not often a marine gives chase
2) i'm probably gonna die.
That wouldn't be the case if I had somebody else rushing with me, or even if I just get a bit lucky and nail him myself. It's a lot better to die trying than to die from splash damage.
I usually think the exact same thing when I'm a fade. I'll do the hit-and-run thing, expecting the marines to just stand there and die after a couple sets of shots. Then I'll take a bit of mg fire and duck back thinking "damn that hurt, time to heal." That's when a marine will occasionally follow me around the corner, much to my surprise, and also additional green goo on the walls.
Those things hurt, and I imagine a lot of people wouldn't be complaining about fades if they actually saw through killing them instead of perpetually wounding them and letting them heal.
If I had a dime for the number of times I've escaped from marines with < 30 hp....
SHhhhh typhon, ur not supposed to TELL them that
Communication and co-ordiantion is the key to taking out a good hit and run fade not charging it with a lmg and a buddy for good luck.
Trying to rush it will only get you killed unless there are at least 3 of you who are reasonable shots with your lmg, your not rushing in a narrow corridor (splash damage) and the fade is not skilled. A good fade will not allow him/her self to be taken out by a marine with a lmg rushing them or to be engaged at medium to close range, anything bigger or better armed and the fade can out run it, a fade can out run an LA marine with a HMG. A good fade has to be out thought, trying to out fight it with a lmg is a no win situation (unless the fade is a newbie).
Some things that you also need to remember is that fades can run backwards just as fast as they can run forwards; they can and will retreat backwards from you while bombarding you with acid rockets. Also there is splash damage to consider the fade doesn't even have to hit you with the acid rocket just the wall next to you or the floor in front of you. A fade is likely to have either adrenaline or cloaking depending on what was built at the second hive both are a frightening advantage to have as a fade.
Skilled fades will often turn the game in favour of the aliens which is why I try to deny the aliens their second hive as soon as possible.
But the last thing I've found most aliens expecting is to see a marine banzai charge! Take a clue from the japanese - if you have nothing to lose, then death has no fear for you. I've singlehandedly driven off three fades before who were sieging our base on Caged by simply running out of our base screaming and blazing away with my LMG. Most aliens want to be 'in' on the final destruction of the marine base, and will fall back in order to try and save their own skins. Remember that you cost 0 resources - if you can buy even a few seconds for more important (eg, better armed and skilled) members of your team to rally and push the alien menace back, then your sacrifice is worth it. And 100 rounds of LMG ammo, 20 pistol rounds, and a knife can do some amazing damage when the enemy is running away.
So just remember next time the foe cowers before you - banazai! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> .............. <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Some situations give you the advantage but hey when you have nothing to lose except ammo and a Light Machine Gun, "For the Emperor!"
Though RuneGrey, it usually seems more like this <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
P.S. Notice the Fallout and WH40K references? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I got the Fallout one! My second-fave RPG ever, behind Planescape: Torment.
Tormet was my favorite because it had an *awesome* storyline. I mean, what other games make you question the meaning of life? Damn!
My roommate was playing Tactics this afternoon because our AT&T cable sucks **obscenity** here. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Sometimes, I'll get a l337 50 ping on any server, sometimes, it's never less than 500, and sometimes it'll go from 50 to 500 every 5 seconds. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
We're looking into DSL, but there's really nothing available around here.
Anyway, getting back on track, When Im a Fade, the last tthing I expect is for the Marine to come rushing at me, takes me by surprise, and I either fight back with the claws or die.
However, who hasn't as a marine, been going down a dark hallway, or opens a door, to find a giant alien standing in front of them, and decided to turn tail and run for reinforcements? When I started playing, thats what I did, things scared the heck outta me, but thats what makes this game so great, moments that make you go "YOU SCARED THE **** OUT OF ME!!", now that Im wiser howerever, I learn not to fear the Fade, for it is just another target in sights.
Case #1:
Toaday I was fading on ns_eclipse. And let me tell you, going against 3 guys is SCARY. Your health drops like crazy even with lmg. You think of the 44 rp that you'll need 10 min to get back and you RUN. Run run run. I ended up running with 70 hp and turning the corner with 10. Now, luckily for me, no marines chased me down. I then stood by the nearest hive , regenned to full and rocketed them to bits.
Remember, if aliens RUN 9 of 10 times it means that they are afraid of dying. You're afraid of loosing that shiny HMG your comm gave you. But those are not YOUR resources. For an alien to die hurts much more. THey might have to wait 5 or 10 mins to become that class again.
Case #2:
Marines were fighting a losing battle on ns_hera. Our commander got tied up in skirmishes over the holoroom and allowed the aliens to take 3 hives. As is usual in such situations, fat ugly giant pigs of destruction started appearing. One onos pushed its way up through maintenance and into our base. After hurting us severely, he ran back into the tunnel. I being the crazy marine that I am, ran after him with another marine. Lmg - 50 bullets, 50 in reserve; 20 in pistol; 1 titanium standard issue knive...
We finally caught up with the fat guy in Maintainance room. I did not expect to survive the encounter. Instead, our LMGs prooved their worth and we held a small onos BBQ!
Moral:
Rp investment for aliens is much more important. nothing for marines costs 70 rp. If you see an onos or a fade run after them and finish em off!!!
RAWR forever!!!
The blink fader will cheer you've closed the gap for him, blink over to you & cut you in half.
Well... S'what I do anyway. (I h8 artillery faders)
And btw, just HOW many 40k players do we have on here? EVERYONE seems to be. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I log onto a pub server, and it's caged, and fades are already outside the base.
So I try to inspire the rest of the team by kamikazing after the fades with my LMG.
I kill two.
Then I port over to the generator hive they were holding. Fade attacking there too doing the retreat-to-chambers thing. I unloaded my LMG at him, ran out of bullets, switched to my pistol, but I had picked up a welder somewhere, so I just rushed him with that. The fade just stood there like a deer in headlights, probably bewildered as all hell, then I get the welder kill.
I die to a turret and respawn and not 15 seconds later, I chase a fade down, run out of LMG ammo and drop him with the pistol.
Kamikazi marines must be scary to fades, I was dropping them left and right, hehe.
Death to the weakling emperor of man, let the galaxy burn and pile skulls at the throne of the bloodgod!
(God I love the new Chaos Codex)
Seriously, though, some lessons can be learned from 40k, marines are cannon fodder, their only job is to kill as many of the enemy as they can before getting slaughtered themselves.
They don't question orders, they don't **obscenity** about how much they -need- that shotgun, or armor, or jetpack, instead they whip out ye ol' chainsword and start cutting when they run out of ammo.
Besides it's great fun watching your Khronites go into a bloodfrenzy and charge the enemy swinging their axes only to get decimated but still have the last 4 survivors kill half the enemies troops before decapitating themselves when they're mortally wounded.
On a sidenote, does anyone actually play a race besides Marines or Chaos Marines, I've played 40k for like 2 years now and I have only once seen an Eldar army which I consequently whiped out and (the guy was only just starting out) almost made the guy stop playing cause he thought Eldar sucked.
Anyho in the words of Kharn: 'Kill! Burn! Maim! Kill! Burn! Maim! Kill! Burn! Maim!'
Demise, I've played GW for 9 years now. I've had (as Gary Oldman would say) EVERYONE!!!! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Personally I only play against Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Eldar and other Chaos, which sucks cause it's boring after the 3rd time you play the same gu with the same army.
Shockwave, a most excellent quote! It should play in game when the Comm uses the Distress Beacon! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you rush me within the first 2 seconds of me hiding, then i will fire ONE acid rocket you, then switch to melee and attempt to chase u down.
THIS WORKS IN MAIRNES FAVOUR.
I have no energy left, so I CANNOT ATTACK YOU.
It regens fast, but guns kill me faster, while all I can do is attempt to run away!
I was playing mairnes today, and I kept doing this, rushing the fades after they retreated. Guess what happened??? I killed every single one I chased down, I had HMG and HA thou, but, the fact is I killed around 5 fades while they were doing the hit-and-run tactic on our bases! All you have to do is go round the corner, gun blazing, and there u go, one leaded fade.
Oh, and also an ONOS rushed us, we all had HMG and HA, 4 of us. I just shouted over comms, "JUST SHOOT THE **obscenity** THING, DONT WORRY ABOUT DYING!!!!!" and it died before killing ANYONE and it didnt even get a single building!
Basicly, the aliens play you how they want, but if you dont want to die, dont play their game, simple as that.
This just means rush a fade or an ONOS or even a lerk round the corner, cos 99% of the time, this is done when they are low on HP, or have depleted energy, a PRIME opportunity to kill them without much worry of retaliation!