Voting mechanism for new features

FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer Posts: 6,941 admin
Experiment
Hey everyone,

I just put up a quick Google Moderator page to allow you to submit new features and vote on them. Take a look and let me know what you think:

http://t.co/lTVxB28P

Charlie Cleveland
Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment

Comments

  • DawormDaworm Join Date: 2009-06-22 Member: 67900Members Posts: 751
    I cannot believe this has gone so long without a reply >.<

    However. This is very awesome :D
  • BensonBenson Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 1,296 Advanced user
    Now we KNOW we are being listened too :)

    I think this is an amazing idea and will go a long way towards keeping both the community informed on what the devs are going to do, and the devs informed of what their community wants!

    If we are to be damned, let us be damned for what we really are. - Capt. Jean Luc Picard
  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Members Posts: 805
    edited November 2012
    just revisit ns1 ideas charlie, you ignored many of them.

    edit

    the only way we know we're being listened to is if we actually see them doing the things so many already told them to do. If not, this website is just place to vent your stress. Great example would been what older vets been telling charlie to do, and he been ignoring them for years.
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 2,207
    edited November 2012
    Would help if people searched before they posted suggestions though, there's a lot of recurring ones:
    - Some sort of alien teleportation system (hive or gorge tunnels, whatever)
    - Fixing the too fast game start (usually not a lot of players are done loading or there are no commanders yet)
    - Making the gorge a more meaningful and fun class one way or another
    - Better alien T3 upgrades
    - Alien hive sight
    - Welding doors and vents

    And a few others I missed for sure

    Interesting idea, though I suppose it all depends on how well the information is actually translated into gameplay changes.
    Steamname: Unkn0wn Gamename: David Bowie
  • TimMcTimMc Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143945Members Posts: 1,425
    Very nice. I will start voting and post where I see gaps.
    My Steam Workshop:
    Arms Limitation Treaty - Whips, Sentries, ARCs and Hallucinations count towards MAC/Drifter limits.
    No Power Usage - Marine structures no longer require power. Power nodes only affect lighting, but are much weaker.
  • Vladimir Van VodkaVladimir Van Vodka Sexy Beast Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 310
    "More viable late-game/end-game siege strategies for aliens (more then just Onos) + More viable combat weaponry for marines (more then just Lmg and Shotgun)"

    Why would 4 people vote this down?

    why?
  • TimMcTimMc Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143945Members Posts: 1,425
    QUOTE (Vladimir Van Vodka @ Nov 27 2012, 06:53 PM) »
    "More viable late-game/end-game siege strategies for aliens (more then just Onos) + More viable combat weaponry for marines (more then just Lmg and Shotgun)"

    Why would 4 people vote this down?

    why?


    I just skipped it, but I think the criticism is 1) its too vague and 2) someone might think a different idea deserves more attention. Face it each vote shuffles the chances of getting dev attention.
    My Steam Workshop:
    Arms Limitation Treaty - Whips, Sentries, ARCs and Hallucinations count towards MAC/Drifter limits.
    No Power Usage - Marine structures no longer require power. Power nodes only affect lighting, but are much weaker.
  • Vladimir Van VodkaVladimir Van Vodka Sexy Beast Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 310
    QUOTE (TimMc @ Nov 28 2012, 03:29 AM) »
    I just skipped it, but I think the criticism is 1) its too vague and 2) someone might think a different idea deserves more attention. Face it each vote shuffles the chances of getting dev attention.


    well my Cerberi Suggestion isn't vague at all, the problem is that it's a wall of text.

    I really just want UWE to acknowledge it, I'm wondering if they even check I&S.
    12,000+ views and omni positive response would deserve a simple glimpse from a dev, right?
    If they aren't replying because it's not what they are looking for I wish they could tell me so so I can let it die.
    I know I'm bugging everyone with this, I'm apologizing beforehand, but I want UWE to see it.

    After this voting thing, I'll send an email, but after that I'm giving up.
  • TimMcTimMc Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143945Members Posts: 1,425
    QUOTE (Vladimir Van Vodka @ Nov 27 2012, 07:16 PM) »
    well my Cerberi Suggestion isn't vague at all, the problem is that it's a wall of text.

    I really just want UWE to acknowledge it, I'm wondering if they even check I&S.
    12,000+ views and omni positive response would deserve a simple glimpse from a dev, right?
    If they aren't replying because it's not what they are looking for I wish they could tell me so so I can let it die.
    I know I'm bugging everyone with this, I'm apologizing beforehand, but I want UWE to see it.

    After this voting thing, I'll send an email, but after that I'm giving up.


    I honestly hadn't checked it until you mentioned it now, very solid and interesting idea. Hope they do it.
    My Steam Workshop:
    Arms Limitation Treaty - Whips, Sentries, ARCs and Hallucinations count towards MAC/Drifter limits.
    No Power Usage - Marine structures no longer require power. Power nodes only affect lighting, but are much weaker.
  • jo.tossjo.toss Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 164854Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 8 Fully active user
    edited November 2012
    QUOTE (Benson @ Nov 27 2012, 03:36 PM) »
    Now we KNOW we are being listened too :)

    I think this is an amazing idea and will go a long way towards keeping both the community informed on what the devs are going to do, and the devs informed of what their community wants!


    Yup! UnknownWorlds is no Blizzard. Diablo 3 is a perfect example of what happens when devs do not listen to the players. The game has gone into total oblivion
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    JTossPWROVRWHLMNG
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members Posts: 1,731
    I think this voting system is a good idea but it would need some tuning before working correctly for non-trivial issues:

    - Suggestions needs to be manually accepted, mainly to avoid doubles, they also need to respect a few rules: be sufficiently precise, concrete and well-argued.

    - Votes need to come after a public debate. Democratic systems works like that: public debate followed by a vote. Having only the voting part don't really work because people don't think enough about the suggestions and are not well informed on the issue.

    - Wikipedia does that pretty well, after a debate, each member give a positive or negative vote, followed by a short discussion of the reasons of its vote. The final decision is then made taking into account both votes and arguments.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,689 Advanced user
    edited November 2012
    I made 9 suggestions and every one of them is pure gold, give them some love :P http://www.google.com/moderator/#11/e=2055...QgOb1i86mkJ3xAQ

    I think this is a good idea, but I hope it doesn't become the end-all source for prioritizing new features. The very safe good ideas will float to the top, but the controversial ones that may or may not be great for the game will always have a middling score. Hopefully the devs will look through all of them and make their own judgment call in these cases.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • includeinclude aka RpTheHotrod Dallas, TX Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12027Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 658 Fully active user
    QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 28 2012, 11:13 AM) »
    I made 9 suggestions and every one of them is pure gold, give them some love :P http://www.google.com/moderator/#8/e=2055e8

    I think this is a good idea, but I hope it doesn't become the end-all source for prioritizing new features. The very safe good ideas will float to the top, but the controversial ones that may or may not be great for the game will always have a middling score. Hopefully the devs will look through all of them and make their own judgment call in these cases.

    You linked yours wrong.

    You have to click the share button, like I did on this one:
    http://goo.gl/mod/DxCm
  • current1yoldcurrent1yold Join Date: 2012-09-10 Member: 158911Members Posts: 266
    I like this idea..a quick way to tell ( a simple yes or no system) what the community generally agrees should/shouldn't be implemented as far as basic ideas go. I like this idea a lot. Seems like it would be very useful.
  • DjDCHDjDCH Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169539Members Posts: 3
    I'm really happy to see this. It always good to know that the game developers care about what we think. Its an important step that is now reached. Now, I'm really curious to see if this will work. I hope that we will get feedback within a week about the voting mechanism, a compilation of the most suggested features and what will accepted and refuse (and why).

    QUOTE (Xarius @ Nov 27 2012, 03:16 PM) »
    Would help if people searched before they posted suggestions though, there's a lot of recurring ones:
    - Some sort of alien teleportation system (hive or gorge tunnels, whatever)
    - Fixing the too fast game start (usually not a lot of players are done loading or there are no commanders yet)
    - Making the gorge a more meaningful and fun class one way or another
    - Better alien T3 upgrades
    - Alien hive sight
    - Welding doors and vents

    And a few others I missed for sure

    Interesting idea, though I suppose it all depends on how well the information is actually translated into gameplay changes.

    There are a lot double (triple and more) suggestions. Even if people don't always search before posting, it's hard to always use the same words and get relevant result. I tried to link all the duplicate or related suggestion together, but I know that I missed few of them. If you find a duplicate suggestion, try to do the same and link the suggestion together. That is why this type of board (suggestions and voting) really need a close following from the board's owner to keep things organized.

    QUOTE (Yuuki @ Nov 28 2012, 04:51 AM) »
    I think this voting system is a good idea but it would need some tuning before working correctly for non-trivial issues:

    - Suggestions needs to be manually accepted, mainly to avoid doubles, they also need to respect a few rules: be sufficiently precise, concrete and well-argued.

    - Votes need to come after a public debate. Democratic systems works like that: public debate followed by a vote. Having only the voting part don't really work because people don't think enough about the suggestions and are not well informed on the issue.

    - Wikipedia does that pretty well, after a debate, each member give a positive or negative vote, followed by a short discussion of the reasons of its vote. The final decision is then made taking into account both votes and arguments.

    Those are good suggestions, but it cannot be done with the actual system. We are very limited with the features provided by Google moderator. Ironically, there are almost no moderation tools provided with Google moderator (I started my own series to view the available features to confirm this statement). Moderation features like suggestion merging, mark as accepted or resolved, and many others are needed features that is missing with Google moderator. An other platform, such as UserVoice, should have been chosen, instead of Google moderator, since they provide the most need features to properly manage and moderate proposed suggestions. Also, they generally proposed an enhanced comment behavior that promote a good discussion and highlight good comment. Discussing is a really important part of the suggestion, since it can lead to a better and more precise suggestion, which is more likely to be accepted, either by the community and the developers.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members Posts: 1,731
    Yep, this google software is pretty bad.

    The ironic thing is that this forum software is much more powerful for this kind of application: you can have groups of moderators that approve topics, you can have polls, you can format properly posts, include images and videos and have a proper discussion.
  • AngeluszAngelusz Harmonic entropist Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Posts: 2,601 mod
    edited November 2012
    QUOTE (Yuuki @ Nov 29 2012, 03:27 PM) »
    Yep, this google software is pretty bad.

    The ironic thing is that this forum software is much more powerful for this kind of application: you can have groups of moderators that approve topics, you can have polls, you can format properly posts, include images and videos and have a proper discussion.


    This forum software is actually a tad dated and will be replaced in the future. Perhaps the function can be integrated then though, that's not at all a bad idea.

    Nevertheless, this is what we have to work with now, it'll suffice.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members Posts: 1,731
    edited November 2012
    It doesn't really matter if the software is dated, current tools are at the level of say 1995 forums. Have you ever tried basecamp? damn it's so bad.

    This google thing is a good idea regardless, I mean top suggestion are good feedback.
  • ArcL!ghtArcL!ght Join Date: 2007-11-27 Member: 63031Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 244
    QUOTE (Yuuki @ Nov 29 2012, 03:01 PM) »
    It doesn't really matter if the software is dated, current tools are at the level of say 1995 forums. Have you ever tried basecamp? damn it's so bad.

    This google thing is a good idea regardless, I mean top suggestion are good feedback.


    For me sorting does not work, except by date
    NS2 Shoutcast Channel Feel free to visit, comment, suggest.
  • DjDCHDjDCH Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169539Members Posts: 3
    QUOTE (ArcL!ght @ Nov 29 2012, 07:39 AM) »
    For me sorting does not work, except by date

    Even date are not written anywhere in Google moderator. For me, date are vital information that I assume to get everywhere. At the moment, it is really hard to see which post between two posts have been posted before the other one. It's not impossible, since you can use the date sorting and see which post occur first.

    Whatever. I really hope that UWE will give us some feedback about all the suggestions that have been made in the past few days.
  • BensonBenson Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 1,296 Advanced user
    I dont think this system randomizes the suggestions....with the result that the first suggestions get more votes, while people lose patience and dont vote on the other 300+ suggestions.

    In order for this to be accurate, the suggestions need to be randomized so that they ALL get seen and read
    If we are to be damned, let us be damned for what we really are. - Capt. Jean Luc Picard
  • DawormDaworm Join Date: 2009-06-22 Member: 67900Members Posts: 751
    waiiiiiiiitttttttt a second.

    I just remembered something.

    https://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds


    This does what google moderator already does doesn't it?
    Why not go back to that? Does all that google moderator does doesn't it?
  • DjDCHDjDCH Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169539Members Posts: 3
    QUOTE (Daworm @ Dec 1 2012, 04:57 AM) »
    waiiiiiiiitttttttt a second.

    I just remembered something.

    https://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds


    This does what google moderator already does doesn't it?
    Why not go back to that? Does all that google moderator does doesn't it?

    Oh! That's sounds like a "déjà vu" situation. I took a look to the GetSatisfaction topic, and it seems to have been abandon at least a year ago. This is really sad, because GetSatisfaction is a great platform (better from Google Moderator in my opinion) and the GetSatisfaction topic has not been mark as inactive. It seems that there is a big lack of communication at the moment. Why the UW GetSatisfaction still exists if it is not maintain by UWE? Why the Google Moderator series has been created if the UW GetSatisfaction exists and why the Google Moderator series is not moderated as it should be?

    It's always fun when we see initiative like these are taken, but it always seems to get abandoned without any announcement. This question has been post to tell people where they could get help. Is it normal that somebody that we don't know post something like this and not someone from UWE? I was very happy when I saw the announcement about the Google Moderator. But after only a week, I'm pretty discourage and sad about the actual situation. Almost a month ago, when the game came out, a was really enthusiastic about contributing on the wiki. Now that I see so much of a lack of communication, I think that I'll take a break and wait to see what will happen next. If nothing change, I think that I will just abandon what I wanted to do in the same way that UWE has abandon us.

    Maybe I'm wrong. I hope so.

    DjDCH
  • DawormDaworm Join Date: 2009-06-22 Member: 67900Members Posts: 751
    QUOTE (DjDCH @ Dec 3 2012, 01:59 PM) »
    <snip>
    Maybe I'm wrong. I hope so.

    DjDCH

    I would hope you're wrong too!

    But I thought for a while "looks like they're listening!" and then something was nagging the back of my mind...
    Then I remembered I posted about a community hub bizzo sometime back.
    Then suddenly a week or two later Flayra launched GetSatisfaction (and I noticed they'd be using it for about 2-3 months prior to that).

    Then I remembered the "Feedback" button on the side of the forums over yonder -->


    Please Flayra, come back to this thread, let us know what the dealio is. GoogleModerator? Is your experiment a success?
    GetSatisfaction - Is this consigned to the dustbin or will someone spend time and actively update it?


  • DawormDaworm Join Date: 2009-06-22 Member: 67900Members Posts: 751
    *bump*

    Would be nice to get some feedback on this experiment.
    Is google moderator actively to be used and well... moderated? Where dupes are merged etc.? Or shall we use the GetSatisfaction that is available over yonder ----> in that feedback tab on the side?
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