ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your post gives me the impression that attacking fades would stand in the middle of whatever outpost/base they're attacking?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, not at all. I think it's the style of play some people use. I hardly ever use Acid rocket. I live off Claws & Blink. I don't believe in firefights with HMG/H.A's, I shoot a single rocket at them, cloak, and wait for them to wander over to me, whilst I just blink straight behind LMG's & slice em up. So, I'm more of a melee kinda guy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> , where I see a lot of Fade players just seem to treat the Fade as a 'better' 'shooty' alien, like an upgraded Lerk. If I'm pushing a base, (I do it a lot on Tanith, for example) I'll run down the corridor, lob an Acid rocket or two, to get the marines storming out, then slice em up.
Hence, for me, cloak is more useful, as it keeps me out of the way whilst waiting for the marines (when ambushing) and safe immediately after the combat (while regening)
So, I suppose the chambers (using Fade as an example) is down to your playing style for each alien. So, for me, Movement just ain't very good.... but then again, for whoever said the sensory ability is useless, don't you find Movement is largely bobbins too? Because it takes you to the FURTHEST hive, not in sequence like a Phase, you never seem to end up at the right one anyway <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Chompy+Nov 21 2002, 10:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chompy @ Nov 21 2002, 10:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for your strategy on Eclipse, you do realize that they can still get through by going through horseshoe?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--Revenge+Nov 21 2002, 01:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Revenge @ Nov 21 2002, 01:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now do the same sort of thing at horseshoe resource node<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Please don't make me want to inflict serious bodily harm upon small kittens...
<!--QuoteBegin--Shockwave+Nov 21 2002, 05:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Nov 21 2002, 05:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't understand what people's obssession with Adren is.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Fades recharge their energy REALLY slowly. Adrenaline is the difference between running out every 20 seconds and firing a volley of 4 rockets, and running out every 10 seconds and unleashing 6 rockets
<!--QuoteBegin--Go7+Nov 21 2002, 06:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Go7 @ Nov 21 2002, 06:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->MT only cost 25 rp.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Observatories cost 25 rp, motion tracking cost 50. 75 resources is a huge outlay that many commanders simply do not see the value of. I have played many games where I have been able to run in with a group of skulks during a rush (and get this, usually the skulks wait until there are 4 of them there before running in! How neat is that?) and camp out on a high wall out of site of the turrets (surprising the amount of times turrets dont cover a common route out of the spawn, allowing me to parasite nearly every marine that leaves the base at leisure.
There's nothing more annoying than running into a marine turret nest in a remote area.......then going to a vent to plop a defense chamber to help munch them up and finding out yobos saved it for hive three.
I'd say that if there are arguments to go sens/mov first they are entirely situational. On maps that span large areas having to either eat a death, or trek back to regen up after rambogorge2.0a has died fighting rather than healing can slow progression quite a bit. And Kheraa can't really afford to be slowed down.
Defense chambers help to keep walls, offensive, and res up longer sure.....but they also give you a forward fire base to conduct guerilla warfare. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Dude, head to head combat does not count as guerilla warfare...
That is all defensive chambers are good for, evening out the health differences between marines and kharaa so the kharaa can play it deathmatch styles...
Guerilla warfare involves some level of guerilla tactics, such as laying in ambush, or stalking the enemy, or sabotaging them in covert attacks, hunting in a pack with one guy as bait.
One fade running to the marine base, firing 6 acid rockets and running back to heal is a full out seige.
Was referring to skulks actually. They are infiltrators and can get to areas past defenses that the burlier aliens cannot. There are some areas that are buildable in and out of vents that you can only really reach if you skulk to them and go gorge once inside. What I am saying is that when you get to an area that is good real estate to "hit and fade" on an unguarded installation from it is nice to be able to set up a defense tower and point your teammates to it. Whether that counts as a guerilla tactic is in the eye of the beholder.
Sometimes marines take their sweet time sweeping the map. If they get you to one hive from two or three the game is still winnable, but the lack of healing shortens your arm as you oftentimes have long travel distances after death. Unless you use the open hallways that they usually set themselves up in as they crawl.
<!--QuoteBegin--Revenge+Nov 21 2002, 06:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Revenge @ Nov 21 2002, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dude, head to head combat does not count as guerilla warfare...
That is all defensive chambers are good for, evening out the health differences between marines and kharaa so the kharaa can play it deathmatch styles...
Guerilla warfare involves some level of guerilla tactics, such as laying in ambush, or stalking the enemy, or sabotaging them in covert attacks, hunting in a pack with one guy as bait.
One fade running to the marine base, firing 6 acid rockets and running back to heal is a full out seige.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well good, SIEGE Is what you want to do to the marines.
Defense chambers are also good for helping protect friendly resources. Stop just thinking about yourself and think about the team.
How did Vietnam do so well against America? Did they lay seige to American outposts or did they prefer to ambush squads of marines?
How well do you think the Vietnamese would have done if they had decided to fight traditionally, on open battlefields with massive numbers of troops coming at each other?
We may not have dense jungle to give cover and heavy storms to disguise our movements, but we do have cloak and silence which works in the same way. I have far more success with aliens when I know the majority of the team (even on public servers you make friends with the regulars if you are a regular yourself), because I know what I can and can't trust my team mates with. When you dont allow the marines to move anywhere across the map without the constant fear that you may have just walked into a trap and not known it, you have already won the game. The life expectancy of an luitennant touching down in Vietnam was about 20 minutes or so. How do you think this knowledge made them feel about their job? Do you think they would have had supreme confidence in their ability to live through their next patrol?
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
In which bit did the Viet Kong charge in as 20 foot long mutant Rhinos? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
It boils down to this: If you are an alien specifically a gorge and you want your team to lose then build a sensory first or second. that will increase the chance of you getting your wish. Without adrenaline you handicap the lerks and the fades. Sensory benefits no-one 1st and even less people 2nd.
The only time in the last 2 wks that I have seen marine's win the game some well intentioned but unschooled gorge built sensory first or second.
With adrenaline a lerk (like myself) can take out any turret factory without getting scratched in no time. Without adrenaline I get like 3 bites then have to stop to recharge my umbra. Plus you can't fly away after inflicitng major damage. Fades? Fades are so easily rushed and killed when they do not have adrenaline. No blinking away, no wall of acidic death, no ali imatations on heavy's heads just turning tale and running while their energy regens.
If you build defensive -> movement the game is over. There is no need for the third hive. 2 hive wins are the norm as long as defense->movement is in game.
Funny, I can take out a Turret Factory as a Lerk without upgrades of any kind. All I need is Umbra and a Fade to back me up. Much faster than Spikes, and I've got a Fade around already if any marines show up.
IMO it goes Offense and defense then movement followed by sensory PUT SNENSORY in front of offense or above to **obscenity** of marines with more stuff to kill and parasite them!
I hardely ever buiold defense chambers without offense chambers, they belong together.. I hate when I find randomly placed chambers.. Honestly it doesnt matter much which coems first of the two as long as you d it around the same time.. Defense can be first just so friends can upgrade.
What really drives me mad is people building hives and nothign else... one hive will do nothign , but spawn and give you upgrades. and it will die quick if you dont secure it... Always secure hives and areas near hives so they don't get sieged!
edit: I used to forget when I am a gorge that the upgrade chambers you build are not just for protecting stuff and are also very important for your warriors upgrades... people need to remeber that.
Actually, I prefer sensory to be up first. Cloaking can be useful in the game, yes, but I find that scent of fear really does a good job. I hunt in packs, and it makes coordinating attacks that much easier. If one pack encounters a group of marines, and wounds even one, suddenly, all the other packs know where the action is. If a marine's doing a decent job of holding off my pack from one direction,, they usually don't expect another 2-6 skulks showing up in several independant groups from the other directions almost simultaneously. Now admittedly, this doesn't do a lot if all the aliens are trying to rambo, but since this <b>is</b> a team game, it's most useful.
I also find that most commanders won't waste an extra health pack if it only means 5 - 10 health for their troops. Scent of fear makes an excellent way of tracking the progress of those wounded marines throughought the level.
The advanced hivesight is pretty useful too, especially if you're like me and easily loses track of marines while you're trying to bite their ankles.
Personally, I'd take scent of fear over regen or carapace any day. Skulks are supposed to die, and living that extra second against a group of 4 marines is a lot less usefull in most cases than your fellow skulks showing up in from all directions to finish off the group.
Comments
No, not at all. I think it's the style of play some people use. I hardly ever use Acid rocket. I live off Claws & Blink. I don't believe in firefights with HMG/H.A's, I shoot a single rocket at them, cloak, and wait for them to wander over to me, whilst I just blink straight behind LMG's & slice em up. So, I'm more of a melee kinda guy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> , where I see a lot of Fade players just seem to treat the Fade as a 'better' 'shooty' alien, like an upgraded Lerk. If I'm pushing a base, (I do it a lot on Tanith, for example) I'll run down the corridor, lob an Acid rocket or two, to get the marines storming out, then slice em up.
Hence, for me, cloak is more useful, as it keeps me out of the way whilst waiting for the marines (when ambushing) and safe immediately after the combat (while regening)
So, I suppose the chambers (using Fade as an example) is down to your playing style for each alien. So, for me, Movement just ain't very good.... but then again, for whoever said the sensory ability is useless, don't you find Movement is largely bobbins too? Because it takes you to the FURTHEST hive, not in sequence like a Phase, you never seem to end up at the right one anyway <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Revenge+Nov 21 2002, 01:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Revenge @ Nov 21 2002, 01:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now do the same sort of thing at horseshoe resource node<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Please don't make me want to inflict serious bodily harm upon small kittens...
<!--QuoteBegin--Shockwave+Nov 21 2002, 05:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Nov 21 2002, 05:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't understand what people's obssession with Adren is.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Fades recharge their energy REALLY slowly. Adrenaline is the difference between running out every 20 seconds and firing a volley of 4 rockets, and running out every 10 seconds and unleashing 6 rockets
<!--QuoteBegin--Go7+Nov 21 2002, 06:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Go7 @ Nov 21 2002, 06:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->MT only cost 25 rp.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Observatories cost 25 rp, motion tracking cost 50. 75 resources is a huge outlay that many commanders simply do not see the value of. I have played many games where I have been able to run in with a group of skulks during a rush (and get this, usually the skulks wait until there are 4 of them there before running in! How neat is that?) and camp out on a high wall out of site of the turrets (surprising the amount of times turrets dont cover a common route out of the spawn, allowing me to parasite nearly every marine that leaves the base at leisure.
I'd say that if there are arguments to go sens/mov first they are entirely situational. On maps that span large areas having to either eat a death, or trek back to regen up after rambogorge2.0a has died fighting rather than healing can slow progression quite a bit. And Kheraa can't really afford to be slowed down.
Defense chambers help to keep walls, offensive, and res up longer sure.....but they also give you a forward fire base to conduct guerilla warfare. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Kheras
That is all defensive chambers are good for, evening out the health differences between marines and kharaa so the kharaa can play it deathmatch styles...
Guerilla warfare involves some level of guerilla tactics, such as laying in ambush, or stalking the enemy, or sabotaging them in covert attacks, hunting in a pack with one guy as bait.
One fade running to the marine base, firing 6 acid rockets and running back to heal is a full out seige.
Sometimes marines take their sweet time sweeping the map. If they get you to one hive from two or three the game is still winnable, but the lack of healing shortens your arm as you oftentimes have long travel distances after death. Unless you use the open hallways that they usually set themselves up in as they crawl.
Kheras
That is all defensive chambers are good for, evening out the health differences between marines and kharaa so the kharaa can play it deathmatch styles...
Guerilla warfare involves some level of guerilla tactics, such as laying in ambush, or stalking the enemy, or sabotaging them in covert attacks, hunting in a pack with one guy as bait.
One fade running to the marine base, firing 6 acid rockets and running back to heal is a full out seige.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well good, SIEGE Is what you want to do to the marines.
Defense chambers are also good for helping protect friendly resources. Stop just thinking about yourself and think about the team.
How well do you think the Vietnamese would have done if they had decided to fight traditionally, on open battlefields with massive numbers of troops coming at each other?
We may not have dense jungle to give cover and heavy storms to disguise our movements, but we do have cloak and silence which works in the same way. I have far more success with aliens when I know the majority of the team (even on public servers you make friends with the regulars if you are a regular yourself), because I know what I can and can't trust my team mates with. When you dont allow the marines to move anywhere across the map without the constant fear that you may have just walked into a trap and not known it, you have already won the game. The life expectancy of an luitennant touching down in Vietnam was about 20 minutes or so. How do you think this knowledge made them feel about their job? Do you think they would have had supreme confidence in their ability to live through their next patrol?
If you are an alien specifically a gorge and you want your team to lose then build a sensory first or second. that will increase the chance of you getting your wish. Without adrenaline you handicap the lerks and the fades. Sensory benefits no-one 1st and even less people 2nd.
The only time in the last 2 wks that I have seen marine's win the game some well intentioned but unschooled gorge built sensory first or second.
With adrenaline a lerk (like myself) can take out any turret factory without getting scratched in no time. Without adrenaline I get like 3 bites then have to stop to recharge my umbra. Plus you can't fly away after inflicitng major damage. Fades? Fades are so easily rushed and killed when they do not have adrenaline. No blinking away, no wall of acidic death, no ali imatations on heavy's heads just turning tale and running while their energy regens.
If you build defensive -> movement the game is over. There is no need for the third hive. 2 hive wins are the norm as long as defense->movement is in game.
I hardely ever buiold defense chambers without offense chambers, they belong together.. I hate when I find randomly placed chambers.. Honestly it doesnt matter much which coems first of the two as long as you d it around the same time.. Defense can be first just so friends can upgrade.
What really drives me mad is people building hives and nothign else... one hive will do nothign , but spawn and give you upgrades. and it will die quick if you dont secure it... Always secure hives and areas near hives so they don't get sieged!
edit: I used to forget when I am a gorge that the upgrade chambers you build are not just for protecting stuff and are also very important for your warriors upgrades... people need to remeber that.
I also find that most commanders won't waste an extra health pack if it only means 5 - 10 health for their troops. Scent of fear makes an excellent way of tracking the progress of those wounded marines throughought the level.
The advanced hivesight is pretty useful too, especially if you're like me and easily loses track of marines while you're trying to bite their ankles.
Personally, I'd take scent of fear over regen or carapace any day. Skulks are supposed to die, and living that extra second against a group of 4 marines is a lot less usefull in most cases than your fellow skulks showing up in from all directions to finish off the group.