Power Node or Extractor?
SoundFX
Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20048Members
Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20048Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Min/maxing your gameplay</div>I often get into debates about what to kill first when you have limited life expectancy. My educated guess would be to get the extractor but I decided to put that theory to the test.
Using the numbers from the wiki and some testing I came up with a result. First some numbers from the wiki which may not be 100% accurate (confirmation?). In this test we given 1 skulk and 1 marine to chomp and build.
Personal Res = .125 per 6 seconds per node
Team Res = 1 per 6 seconds per node
Extractor:
Costs == 10 TRes
Build Time == 12 Seconds
Kill Time == ~60 bites
Power Node:
Cost == 0 Tres
Repair Time == ~30 seconds (I timed 31)
Kill Time == ~54 Bites
Now with some mathemagics we can calculate minimal Tres and Pres loss for killing each structure:
An extractor kill, if replaced and building started instantly (not possible) will be a loss of 12 resources. 10 to replace and a loss of 2 ticks worth (12 seconds) of res. The personal loss will be .250, or two ticks worth.
A power node kill will result in 5 ticks worth of res loss (if repairs start instantly), or 5 Team Res and .625 personal resources.
Whats better a blow to the Tres or a blow to the Pres?
Obviously the longer something is down the better but in this instance we are expecting them to retake this ASAP.
Using the numbers from the wiki and some testing I came up with a result. First some numbers from the wiki which may not be 100% accurate (confirmation?). In this test we given 1 skulk and 1 marine to chomp and build.
Personal Res = .125 per 6 seconds per node
Team Res = 1 per 6 seconds per node
Extractor:
Costs == 10 TRes
Build Time == 12 Seconds
Kill Time == ~60 bites
Power Node:
Cost == 0 Tres
Repair Time == ~30 seconds (I timed 31)
Kill Time == ~54 Bites
Now with some mathemagics we can calculate minimal Tres and Pres loss for killing each structure:
An extractor kill, if replaced and building started instantly (not possible) will be a loss of 12 resources. 10 to replace and a loss of 2 ticks worth (12 seconds) of res. The personal loss will be .250, or two ticks worth.
A power node kill will result in 5 ticks worth of res loss (if repairs start instantly), or 5 Team Res and .625 personal resources.
Whats better a blow to the Tres or a blow to the Pres?
Obviously the longer something is down the better but in this instance we are expecting them to retake this ASAP.
Comments
That said, I go for the RT every time.
Also, tres is very important, especially early on when you have upgrades to do and bases to build. Destroying an RT means less tres for armories, phase gates, upgrades and so on. You probably want to help delay the commander, more than you want to deny marine players pres.
That said, I go for the RT every time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Marine commander, if paying attention, can Nano armor the Power Node.
Good luck eating one as a Skulk if he does this, it takes <i>forever</i>.
Power nodes are already a pretty easy target with multiple life-forms. Considering the downside to the marines if the aliens take one out in a base, I think it's pretty fair at the moment. It's the alien version of Egglock, it's just that most people derp around chewing on IP's or Phase gates. If you have two or three skulks in their base, just eat the node. Yeah it doesn't cost anything to fix, but it might win you the game then and there.
Don't underestimate the added benefit of an entire room being pitch black as aliens either, even good Marines will have trouble hitting you without light, especially since the Marines flashlights are terrible.
I don't like the fact that Marines can put a Robo factory or an armory on top of most power nodes though, it's complete BS when they also have Nano armor. Effectively this renders a power node immortal as long as it's even slightly defended. Exploit FTW.
Ofcourse focusing RT... why would I go for powernode? It's for free and it takes longer to bite it down than a 10 tres RT...
In bases?
Depends.
Alone I won't go for pnode If I know rines can get back in time, I will go for crucial buildings, like armslab or smth of similar value.
Don't plan on taking the res node? Don't even bother with the power.
I would not listen to this person.
The focal point of any marine forward/base is the power node so it only makes sense to take out the weakest link first. When it's only a choice between an RT or a Node, go for the one that costs resources to rebuild.
10-20 builds ago when a welder was needed to repair a powernode powernodes were much more tactically relevant, and a few builds after that the time it took to rebuild an rt was an eternity....
Currently if your a skulk munching on a Base node your going to get pistoled in a heart beat and lord help you if you try attacking a powernodes during an end game turtle...
The only time I would say the powernodes is a reasonable priority is when attacking the rines alternate base which might have both pg at obs.
Yes, you should listen to him. I'm shocked that most players don't realize by now the relative unimportance of power nodes.
Referencing the OP, that's good work to calculate the TRES and PRES effect of not having power on the extractors...but power nodes are still free, and no one is going to be setting up the new extractor immediately. They are going to gain TRES over the amount of time it takes you to kill either the extractor or the power node, but if you only take out the power you are leaving them with the 10 tres extractor that doesn't have to be replaced. Not to mention if you are chomping on the power node, the comm can just recycle the extractor and get that tres back, which you can reduce or eliminate if you take out the extractor first.
Always take out the extractor first, unless you need to take out the powernode to prevent a phase gate being set up, or to power down a base. Those are the 1% of the time you should hit the power first.
Res node (all alone):
node>leave
I'll leave the power for them to come back and build another one. Then I can kill that one too. Marines get bored easily, so they will inevitably leave their nodes all alone. If they send a lone marine to build another node, I'll just wait for the comm to drop the node, then swoop in for the kill while he's occupied. The longer it takes for them to get phase tech or upgrades the better off you are.
Res node (phase gate and turrets, but alone):
phase gate/turret battery>node>clean up if there's time
It really depends on placement of turrets and response of marines
Res node (phase gate, marines, and turrets):
go onos>battery>marines>phase gate>res node>turrets
If you knock out the turret battery first, there are usually going to be skulks nearby to help clean up. You might be able to take it as fade/skulk, but it will depend on which way the turrets are pointed, or the situation.
2nd base (empty or mostly empty):
marines>phase gate>power node>comm chair>clean up the rest
You might not even encounter any marines if you're lucky or fast enough. If marines do show up, they're going to pop out of the phase gate. Just gobble them up. If they use a beacon, just chalk it up to a major disturbance/use of T-res, and get out of there.
main base (occupied last push):
power node>marines>comm chair
This is obviously going to be a coordinated attack. There should be units chasing the marines around the base and some units chewing on the node. Once the p-node goes out, just finish off the marines and GG.
I'm not that good, so I try to cause as much damage as I can without taking marines head on. It seems to be all about being productive and taking the path of least resistance.
Like, why, you just ate the res lol !?!
Like, why, you just ate the res lol !?!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, the game tells them it is a target. So naturally they follow orders, they know nothing about the deeper meaning behind it being a waste of time and also a dangerous location to chomp on :)
10-20 builds ago when a welder was needed to repair a powernode powernodes were much more tactically relevant, and a few builds after that the time it took to rebuild an rt was an eternity....
Currently if your a skulk munching on a Base node your going to get pistoled in a heart beat and lord help you if you try attacking a powernodes during an end game turtle...
The only time I would say the powernodes is a reasonable priority is when attacking the rines alternate base which might have both pg at obs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't true. But only powernodes that were at risk of powering non-extractor structures were actually attacked. There's just too many things you need your skulks to do at the competitive level discouraging having them invest another 90 seconds to make marines build 40 seconds longer. The dark doesn't last long enough and isn't a big enough advantage to be worth it most other times.
Res node (all alone):
node>leave
I'll leave the power for them to come back and build another one. Then I can kill that one too. Marines get bored easily, so they will inevitably leave their nodes all alone. If they send a lone marine to build another node, I'll just wait for the comm to drop the node, then swoop in for the kill while he's occupied. The longer it takes for them to get phase tech or upgrades the better off you are.
Res node (phase gate and turrets, but alone):
phase gate/turret battery>node>clean up if there's time
It really depends on placement of turrets and response of marines
Res node (phase gate, marines, and turrets):
go onos>battery>marines>phase gate>res node>turrets
If you knock out the turret battery first, there are usually going to be skulks nearby to help clean up. You might be able to take it as fade/skulk, but it will depend on which way the turrets are pointed, or the situation.
2nd base (empty or mostly empty):
marines>phase gate>power node>comm chair>clean up the rest
You might not even encounter any marines if you're lucky or fast enough. If marines do show up, they're going to pop out of the phase gate. Just gobble them up. If they use a beacon, just chalk it up to a major disturbance/use of T-res, and get out of there.
main base (occupied last push):
power node>marines>comm chair
This is obviously going to be a coordinated attack. There should be units chasing the marines around the base and some units chewing on the node. Once the p-node goes out, just finish off the marines and GG.
I'm not that good, so I try to cause as much damage as I can without taking marines head on. It seems to be all about being productive and taking the path of least resistance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My way of doing it:
Res node (all alone, no RT):
node>leave
If the node is blue don't bother killing it, it is still "unbuild" -> no time win. Wait till the Marine build it at 100% and then attack, you get the advantage that the power on sounds starts playing so you are harder to hear and there is a great chance he is heading to the RT to build it and shows you his back.
If you bite the node leave it at <i><b>1-3%</b></i> (always do this), so the Marine will start building the RT
-> you bite the node so power goes off, get the easy Marine kill in the dark and get the RT also.
Res node (all alone, with RT):
Attack the <b>RT</b>, if there is no other "secure" RT nearby attack the node and leave it at 1-3%.
Res node (phase gate and turrets, but alone):
Go for the <b>Node</b> if you can, you need 26.6 seconds to kill the node and 24s to kill the PG, because after the PG you need to kill the battery and the RT.
So in this time the RT generated 5Tres/1Pres
Res node (phase gate, marines, and turrets):
go <strike>onos</strike><b>Gorge</b>, battery>marines>phase gate>res node>turrets
If you have Bilebomb, bile out the turret battery first, there are usually going to be skulks nearby to help clean up. If there are no other players around wait for them! Or do hit and run bilebomb on the powernode. Then heal the skulks, or if 1 Skulk is on the node bile the node! You might be able to take it as fade (battery first>PG>RT>node)/skulk (battery first>PG>RT>node), but it will depend on which way the turrets are pointed, or the situation.
2nd base (empty or mostly empty):
marines>phase gate>power node>comm chair>clean up the rest
Go for the <b>Obs</b> first, the reason is, you want to get the 2. Base <u>down</u> so you don't want 100000 Marine suddenly apear around you, and you only need 11s to kill it. Then go for the Phasegate and always stand in front of the exit so that phasing Marines walk in you when they phase, that gives you normally a first 75 DMG hit on the Marine. If you managed to get the PG down go for the Power, so you can get a bigger delay for the Marines to recap the 2. Base back. Then aim for the most expensive structures (Marines have no proto) or the CC (Marines have a proto).
main base (occupied last push):
<b>comm chair</b>
Easy thing all rush the CC and it is over, if there are too many marines in the Base 1 Onos rushes trough the base to the other exit, so alot of Marines hunt him and then from the toher side some bilebombing Gorges and Skulks hit the CC. You need 22 bilebombs to kill a CC (if all directly hit the CC) , so 5 Gorges end the game in around 4,5s, its cheap and fast, do it with 8-10 Gorges and see the bile flood melting down everything in the Marine base that isn't organic <3!