Hacking Already?

LayLowLayLow Join Date: 2012-02-24 Member: 147323Members
edited November 2012 in NS2 General Discussion
What is being done about Aim botting? It feels like its year 2000 again. Is there a anti-cheat program or anything like VAC support? just played a game where a rine went 40-2
his ping would jump from 130 to 600 every time he started shooting. He never missed.
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Comments

  • AlchemdaAlchemda Join Date: 2004-02-01 Member: 25942Members
    edited November 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2017707:date=Nov 9 2012, 07:28 PM:name=LayLow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LayLow @ Nov 9 2012, 07:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017707"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What is being done about Aim botting? It feels like its year 2000 again. Is there a anti-cheat program or anything like VAC support? just played a game where a rine went 40-2
    his ping would jump from 130 to 600 every time he as shooting. He never missed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    VAC is in the game, servers force consistency. Contact the Admin of the server to ban them through VAC.

    You will get people that are pro's that are that good, experienced it myself. I'd check out his steam profile if you know it and look at how many hours logged. If its less than 100, he's gotta be cheating.

    There are plenty of anti cheat measures in the game. I assume since we never had cheaters in beta, it will take a bit for UWE to get profiles on how these cheats are being created to patch the hole.
  • MerlinCrossMerlinCross Join Date: 2012-11-08 Member: 168471Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2017714:date=Nov 9 2012, 04:32 PM:name=Alchemda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alchemda @ Nov 9 2012, 04:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->VAC is in the game, servers force consistency. Contact the Admin of the server to ban them through VAC.

    You will get people that are pro's that are that good, experienced it myself. I'd check out his steam profile if you know it and look at how many hours logged. If its less than 100, he's gotta be cheating.

    There are plenty of anti cheat measures in the game. I assume since we never had cheaters in beta, it will take a bit for UWE to get profiles on how these cheats are being created to patch the hole.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    While true that there might not have been cheaters in the beta, when you open the floodgates to anyone willing to pay, you'll get cheaters. I know, I've seen them.
  • AlchemdaAlchemda Join Date: 2004-02-01 Member: 25942Members
    edited November 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2017719:date=Nov 9 2012, 07:35 PM:name=MerlinCross)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MerlinCross @ Nov 9 2012, 07:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017719"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While true that there might not have been cheaters in the beta, when you open the floodgates to anyone willing to pay, you'll get cheaters. I know, I've seen them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I dont doubt they are out there. I saw a speed hacker just 15 minutes ago. I'm simply saying it will take a bit for UWE to patch any vulnerabilities that may not have been seen in Beta, and that there are anti cheat measures in place, but they are only so good.
  • MerlinCrossMerlinCross Join Date: 2012-11-08 Member: 168471Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2017724:date=Nov 9 2012, 04:39 PM:name=Alchemda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alchemda @ Nov 9 2012, 04:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017724"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont doubt they are out there. I saw a speed hacker just 15 minutes ago. I'm simply saying it will take a bit for UWE to patch any vulnerabilities that may not have been seen in Beta, and that there are anti cheat measures in place, but they are only so good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Eyup.
  • HeatSurgeHeatSurge Some Guy Join Date: 2012-09-15 Member: 159438Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited November 2012
    Max said VAC is now enabled on servers (as of Wednesday?), and to expect further posts on the subject. It should provide some protection, but of course there is no protection against homebrew cheats unless someone submits them to the database.

    Consistency checks are LOL without memory editor prot. (which VAC is) anyway.
  • RautapalliRautapalli Join Date: 2010-07-23 Member: 72710Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    40-2 is pretty easily doable with the current skill level of pubs...

    And VAC is actually enabled now? That's good, UWE should probably display that on the server list somehow though. If people know that the servers are using VAC then less people will risk getting banned, VAC isn't all that effective otherwise.
  • DavilDavil Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2017774:date=Nov 9 2012, 05:43 PM:name=Rautapalli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rautapalli @ Nov 9 2012, 05:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017774"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->40-2 is pretty easily doable with the current skill level of pubs...

    And VAC is actually enabled now? That's good, UWE should probably display that on the server list somehow though. If people know that the servers are using VAC then less people will risk getting banned, VAC isn't all that effective otherwise.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Confirmed, I had about 32-0 on a pub last night and they all thought I was cheating. If you're running down a long hallway at a marine and you wonder why you're dying, consider where you are.
  • bEEbbEEb Join Date: 2012-03-24 Member: 149317Members, NS2 Map Tester
    KDR has got to be the absolute worse way to determine if a player is cheating. And speedhack? Whatever. 5$ says it was a walljumping skulk or a marine that dumped his guns.

    Just like Davil, I had a 40-0 KDR last night. Im no cheater. Put me up against comp players and my KDR drops to something closer to 1:1. Its almost always who youre up against.
  • greenpeegreenpee Join Date: 2012-04-10 Member: 150218Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2017813:date=Nov 9 2012, 09:19 PM:name=bEEb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bEEb @ Nov 9 2012, 09:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017813"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just like Davil, I had a 40-0 KDR last night.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is a damn lie.

    <3 Cakes
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    As of today, speed hackers were caught on video (with ids, thank god)
    So yes, it begins.
  • bEEbbEEb Join Date: 2012-03-24 Member: 149317Members, NS2 Map Tester
    <!--quoteo(post=2017819:date=Nov 9 2012, 06:22 PM:name=greenpee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (greenpee @ Nov 9 2012, 06:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017819"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is a damn lie.

    <3 Cakes<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Hhahhaha! I think 37 of those were you cakes lol.
  • bEEbbEEb Join Date: 2012-03-24 Member: 149317Members, NS2 Map Tester
    <!--quoteo(post=2017820:date=Nov 9 2012, 06:23 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Nov 9 2012, 06:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017820"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As of today, speed hackers were caught on video (with ids, thank god)
    So yes, it begins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wonderful.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited November 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2017714:date=Nov 9 2012, 04:32 PM:name=Alchemda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alchemda @ Nov 9 2012, 04:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Contact the Admin of the server to ban them through VAC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not to sound rude, but as a person who owns multiple servers, how exactly do people go about doing that? Theres no message of the day or any means for a player to contact an owner, let alone an admin.
    :-/

    I've always suggested someone collect contact info for each server and post it publicly..

    Edit: on that note you can contact me for any -[420]- related issue
  • GlissGliss Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14800Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester
    VAC is an automated process you can't submit people to be banned
  • DavilDavil Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
    I could have sworn I brought up speed hacks since they're basically universal a long time ago.
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I'm hoping there are at least one or two white-hats documenting the vulnerabilities... it'd be nice if UWE can patch them out quickish, and maybe the cheaters would get bored and go back to their other games.

    I also second the idea of admins posting contact information (Steam or something) so that we can reach someone who can actually deal with the problem right away.

    I'm also hoping for a kickvote feature for those times when the admin is offline.
  • CamronCamron Join Date: 2011-01-06 Member: 76356Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2017899:date=Nov 9 2012, 10:48 PM:name=Squishpoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squishpoke @ Nov 9 2012, 10:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017899"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm hoping there are at least one or two white-hats documenting the vulnerabilities... it'd be nice if UWE can patch them out quickish, and maybe the cheaters would get bored and go back to their other games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I can think of some cheat methods that VAC may not be looking for. I'm not gonna risk the ban by testing them however.
  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I've gotten retarded high KDR's in public games atm.

    Probably not a hacker.
  • Katana314Katana314 Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166379Members
    Please remember that early on, there may be some cheaters because of the way VAC works.

    Bunches of new players will, after getting stomped by an excellent commander, horde en masse to hacking forums where some people have already made an aimbot and wallhack for the game. I'd imagine like everything else, this will happen most when the game launches.
    Key is, even if Valve instantly recognizes that these people are using cheats, <i>it will not ban them straight away.</i> Instead, it delays the ban a completely random amount of time.
    Here's how delayed bans work:

    The strategy here is that previously, hackers would develop hacks with some counter-measure function to avoid detection, and then try them out on a stolen copy of Counter-Strike. They got banned, so they would then revise their algorithm. Repeat the process until something goes undetected; and then sell that to the highest bidders for hundreds of dollars, who all go undetected until the anti-hacking group stops playing Solitaire and updates their algorithm (ie, never.)

    Then, delayed bans silently go in. A hacker tries out his hack. He doesn't get banned. He hears VAC bans after about a week, so he waits two weeks. No ban. (Ask any programmer; a debug process that takes a week is intensely frustrating). Believing his hack works, he sells it to hundreds of people.
    100 people log onto various servers, and just like the hacker's own hack, every single one is flagged by VAC for a ban at some later date.
    Cue hundreds of angry customers, and a hacker who has just thrown his mouse across his mom's basement in frustration.

    There's your summary, for those who didn't know! This may explain why early on, some hackers will prolong for a few weeks or more.
  • HeatSurgeHeatSurge Some Guy Join Date: 2012-09-15 Member: 159438Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    <!--quoteo(post=2017837:date=Nov 9 2012, 07:35 PM:name=Princess_of_Power)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Princess_of_Power @ Nov 9 2012, 07:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017837"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->VAC is an automated process you can't submit people to be banned<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    VAC is not automated. It's just managed by Valve. If you have a cheat you can probably submit it to them for signatures etc.
  • stickybootstickyboot Join Date: 2004-01-29 Member: 25711Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2017942:date=Nov 9 2012, 08:39 PM:name=Camron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camron @ Nov 9 2012, 08:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017942"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can think of some cheat methods that VAC may not be looking for. I'm not gonna risk the ban by testing them however.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You should email them to charlie@unknownworlds.com
  • GlissGliss Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14800Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester
    <!--quoteo(post=2017973:date=Nov 9 2012, 09:19 PM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 9 2012, 09:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017973"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->VAC is not automated. It's just managed by Valve. If you have a cheat you can probably submit it to them for signatures etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    not specific players, though
  • MinstrelJCFMinstrelJCF Join Date: 2009-05-10 Member: 67379Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2017942:date=Nov 10 2012, 05:39 AM:name=Camron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camron @ Nov 10 2012, 05:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017942"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can think of some cheat methods that VAC may not be looking for. I'm not gonna risk the ban by testing them however.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That would be every method, it does nothing in third party games.
  • .ADHd.ADHd Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146565Members
    edited November 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2017949:date=Nov 9 2012, 11:44 PM:name=Locklear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Locklear @ Nov 9 2012, 11:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017949"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've gotten retarded high KDR's in public games atm.

    Probably not a hacker.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah dude! I saw that game where you went 16-2 HOLY ######!
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    edited November 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2018242:date=Nov 10 2012, 03:07 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ Nov 10 2012, 03:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018242"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah dude! I saw that game where you went 16-2 HOLY ######!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <sup><!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->*Be nicer - Angelusz<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></sup>
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Join Date: 2003-11-28 Member: 23688
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Repeat the process until something goes undetected; and then sell that to the highest bidders for hundreds of dollars<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wait wait wait... people actually PAY for hacks? How sad does your real life have to be to drive you to that point.
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2018249:date=Nov 10 2012, 03:11 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Nov 10 2012, 03:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018249"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><sup><!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->*Be nicer - Angelusz<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></sup><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I like how you leave behind the quote of the guy being a complete ######, essentially magnifying how much of a ###### he is. Moderating at its best. Sad thing is, without the caps the sarcasm may have been subtle enough to have been left unchanged. BUT CAPS ARE AWESOME.
  • VeonVeon Join Date: 2009-05-31 Member: 67578Members
    edited November 2012
    The most powerful anti-hacking measure is a first-person spectate so admins can make their own evaluation of players instead of staring themselves blind at a KDR that might be legit or might not.
  • RegnRegn Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165335Members
    On some servers I just don't seem to be able to land any hits, whereas on other servers no one seems to be able to land any hits on me. It's not always about the players skill level, sometimes it's also about how I've adjusted to a certain latency and how my opponents have adjusted to a certain latency, depending on my location, my opponents location and the servers location. It's arbitrary to speculate on what is more at fault / the reason as there are too many variables to put into consideration. On some days, at some times, on some servers, with some players, as alien or marine, I'll have 30-5 KDR, whereas sometimes I'll have 5-30. My suggestion, is that if you seem to be having too much trouble you should switch to a different server.
  • grizzlyyygrizzlyyy Join Date: 2012-10-09 Member: 161924Members
    edited November 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2018248:date=Nov 10 2012, 05:11 AM:name=Angelusz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Angelusz @ Nov 10 2012, 05:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018248"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro--><sup>The forum is a not a place for name and shame. If you suspect someone is cheating, please send any available evidence of your claims to the server administrators.

    UWE's stance on anti-cheat right now is that consistency checking will eliminate a lot of possible cheats and the community can take it upon themselves to punish offenders when they arise. VAC is being considered for the future, but there's no solid plans to increase anti-cheat measures right now.

    Thank you for your consideration.

    *Closed*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></sup><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Lol this is a post I received from a forum moderator after reporting a hacker in this very forums. It would appear that UWE has no intent on getting rid of hackers. They're saying VAC is considered in the future. Who knows how long that will be or if it will ever be. And as far as consistency checking? Really? Do you know how easy it is to bypass consistency? People have been doing it in CS 1.6 and CSS for years. And that's only to prevent wallhacks and material hacks. Not a scripted aimbot... Even states there are no solid plans to increase anti-cheat in the future. Since UWE has no intention on doing anything about it. Is this a free pass to start hacking UWE?

    Quote From Original Thread: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124114" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=124114</a>
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