Give infestation and flamethrowers more SENSE
Mr.Greedy
Join Date: 2012-07-21 Member: 154270Members
Join Date: 2012-07-21 Member: 154270Members
Alien Territory have to be a feared and dangerous area. Currently its like walking on candy for marines ;>. Aliens are way to easy to harras. Infestation is currently more a disadvantage. And alien lifeforms need more upgrades to have a chance vs marines in lategames. So, let the Khammander elvolve some passive upgrades for the infestation.
Possible Upgrades could be:
- naturel HP regeneration is doubled on infestation
- infestation poisend marines for 1 dmg/sec
- movementspeed increased @ 15 % for aliens on infestation
- movementspeed decreased @ 15 % for marines on inf.
- all lifeforms are displayed on the map while they are on the inf. (no macs and exos)
- infestation seclude a gas that blurry the marine sight just a bit when inhaled (after a few seconds on inf. Not for exos)
- infestation surrounds every cyst, makeing them harder to see and increased HP @ 20 %
- infestation destroys marine buildings slowly (like a poisoneffect)
Buy some flamethrower marine. They make sense now :> . The flamethrower have to be improved a bit. Decrease the cost to 20. If a cyst is killed by a flamethrower, the infestation around is removed much faster. And the ground is "scorched", for a while, so infestation cannot come back in this time.
Possible Upgrades could be:
- naturel HP regeneration is doubled on infestation
- infestation poisend marines for 1 dmg/sec
- movementspeed increased @ 15 % for aliens on infestation
- movementspeed decreased @ 15 % for marines on inf.
- all lifeforms are displayed on the map while they are on the inf. (no macs and exos)
- infestation seclude a gas that blurry the marine sight just a bit when inhaled (after a few seconds on inf. Not for exos)
- infestation surrounds every cyst, makeing them harder to see and increased HP @ 20 %
- infestation destroys marine buildings slowly (like a poisoneffect)
Buy some flamethrower marine. They make sense now :> . The flamethrower have to be improved a bit. Decrease the cost to 20. If a cyst is killed by a flamethrower, the infestation around is removed much faster. And the ground is "scorched", for a while, so infestation cannot come back in this time.
Comments
I think ages ago it might have done damage over time to marines....can't remember.
Agree on infestation giving better hp regeneration. The current amount is negligible.
And if it could create a slight mist effect that would be great. Nowhere near as dense as the umbra fog or even spores. Something more like the marine torch effect...but only up to 1m off the ground to give slight cover to skulks and other little ones :)
Currently flamethrowers serve really no clear role. I think they need to serve a very useful support role. A kind of counter to all the alien support abilities making it critical for any well rounded group to have one included in them.
As an example, flamethrowers should ignite all forms of gas, umbra and spores included, on fire doing small amounts of one time damage to aliens within the burning gas. It should instantly stop all forms of alien healing or at least slow it severely. It should burn up and stop bile bombs including the nasty armor eating acid.
It should also have an alternative fire that consumes a good amount of fuel, but launches a decent sized ball of napalm that explodes lighting an area on fire, units and buildings included, around it, allowing a flamethower player to lob them into heavily fortified alien areas; a sort of counter to the gorge bile bomb.
You don't want to make infestation the focus of the game. It's a minor backdrop among the alien vs marine game play. Just as you don't want alien play to focus on killing power nodes, you don't want marine play to focus on killing infestation. Your suggestion is bad for the game because it is incredibly imbalanced.
You don't want to make infestation the focus of the game. It's a minor backdrop among the alien vs marine game play. Just as you don't want alien play to focus on killing power nodes, you don't want marine play to focus on killing infestation. Your suggestion is bad for the game because it is incredibly imbalanced.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're bad, and you should feel bad.
Possible Upgrades could be:
- naturel HP regeneration is doubled on infestation
- infestation poisend marines for 1 dmg/sec
- movementspeed increased @ 15 % for aliens on infestation
- movementspeed decreased @ 15 % for marines on inf.
- all lifeforms are displayed on the map while they are on the inf. (no macs and exos)
- infestation seclude a gas that blurry the marine sight just a bit when inhaled (after a few seconds on inf. Not for exos)
- infestation surrounds every cyst, makeing them harder to see and increased HP @ 20 %
- infestation destroys marine buildings slowly (like a poisoneffect)
Buy some flamethrower marine. They make sense now :> . The flamethrower have to be improved a bit. Decrease the cost to 20. If a cyst is killed by a flamethrower, the infestation around is removed much faster. And the ground is "scorched", for a while, so infestation cannot come back in this time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like, infestation needs a purpose besides simply being required to build stuff on.
Flamers also are underused, I thought they where meant to be anti infestation but now they are simply used as way to nerf aliens energy pool.
For the res they are over priced and dont really have a purpose (often better to have another GL'ing JP sitting back than a flamer). Make them anti structure/infestation (could stop whips being able to flick back grenades (would need fix to throw mechanic...revert back to original of throwing back to source)) which is really what it should be...rather than trying to invent a new role for it.
Flamethrowers to clear out infestation makes sense...to somehow sap alien energy doesn't (well not as a primary focus anyway).
You don't want to make infestation the focus of the game. It's a minor backdrop among the alien vs marine game play. Just as you don't want alien play to focus on killing power nodes, you don't want marine play to focus on killing infestation. Your suggestion is bad for the game because it is incredibly imbalanced.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why? This game IS all about to stop the aliens from infestating anything. And Aliens need to expand everywhere to evolve. That is a key-feature of the game :>.
Imbalanced? Sry, you cant know this. I improve aliens and give marines a counter to this. That need to be tested in different settings , and then its not imbalanced. The gameplay is just extended. And sry to say this, but all this game badly needs are more variables, more stuff and more counter vs the stuff. Thats one reason why there are so less tactics/strategys out there.
Flamers also are underused, I thought they where meant to be anti infestation but now they are simply used as way to nerf aliens energy pool.
For the res they are over priced and dont really have a purpose (often better to have another GL'ing JP sitting back than a flamer). Make them anti structure/infestation (could stop whips being able to flick back grenades (would need fix to throw mechanic...revert back to original of throwing back to source)) which is really what it should be...rather than trying to invent a new role for it.
Flamethrowers to clear out infestation makes sense...to somehow sap alien energy doesn't (well not as a primary focus anyway).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agreed.
their structural damage needs to be way better. Currently it takes longer to destroy eggs with the flamethrower, than it does with the axe... imo they should pop eggs way faster.
Also energy drain doesn't fit them and should be reserved for the MAC.
their structural damage needs to be way better. Currently it takes longer to destroy eggs with the flamethrower, than it does with the axe... imo they should pop eggs way faster.
Also energy drain doesn't fit them and should be reserved for the MAC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your right, it should not drain.
If flamethrower is to be useful it has to burn away energy.
Possible Upgrades could be:
- naturel HP regeneration is doubled on infestation
- infestation poisend marines for 1 dmg/sec
- movementspeed increased @ 15 % for aliens on infestation
- movementspeed decreased @ 15 % for marines on inf.
- all lifeforms are displayed on the map while they are on the inf. (no macs and exos)
- infestation seclude a gas that blurry the marine sight just a bit when inhaled (after a few seconds on inf. Not for exos)
- infestation surrounds every cyst, makeing them harder to see and increased HP @ 20 %
- infestation destroys marine buildings slowly (like a poisoneffect)
Buy some flamethrower marine. They make sense now :> . The flamethrower have to be improved a bit. Decrease the cost to 20. If a cyst is killed by a flamethrower, the infestation around is removed much faster. And the ground is "scorched", for a while, so infestation cannot come back in this time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree in everything you say.
Infestation right now is just inviting marines to kill some alien stuff with an axe. It should rather show them some respect, because they now get into an hostile area.
And the buffs for the flamethrower are needed, too. Most of the time I only see them used by new players thinking they bought something great...
In most cases the gl and the sg overlap the functions of the flamethrower AND are more usefull/cheaper/deadlier.
so long
You mean just like marine areas are for aliens? There is no buffs for either side, I don't see what this whining is about. Aliens already are far more defensive than marines, with our whips and hydras while they just have mines.
Phasgates, beacon and next time turrets( I hope so) are not defenses? Turrets are currently another sensless thing in this game.
And tell me please why marine bases are so much harder to destroy then alien bases. As an alien,you can own the whole map and marines can still keeping there base for years untill they get overruned. Rifle-Marines are simply stronger than skulks in lategame, thats why.
And:
The try to bring some new game-mechanics into the game is not whinning, my darling ;) .
Imbalanced? Sry, you cant know this. I improve aliens and give marines a counter to this. That need to be tested in different settings , and then its not imbalanced. The gameplay is just extended. And sry to say this, but all this game badly needs are more variables, more stuff and more counter vs the stuff. Thats one reason why there are so less tactics/strategys out there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. The games do not revolve around cysts and that glowy yellow stuff. They revolve around skulks and marines, hives and phase gates, extractors and harvesters.
What you're suggesting basically requires flamethrowers to do anything on infestation. This effectively forces marines to use flamethrowers which are going to hard counter infestation. Hard counters are bad because there is no middle road. Making an incredibly imbalanced mechanic that can only be effectively fought with a high tech weapon. It is just bad ideas all around.
What you're suggesting basically requires flamethrowers to do anything on infestation. This effectively forces marines to use flamethrowers which are going to hard counter infestation. Hard counters are bad because there is no middle road. Making an incredibly imbalanced mechanic that can only be effectively fought with a high tech weapon. It is just bad ideas all around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did kind of suggest welders, given that they are bought by all good comms in the first minute. and since they burn too.. well.. cheaper flamers. axing a cyst to death is retarded, the end.
And tell me please why marine bases are so much harder to destroy then alien bases. As an alien,you can own the whole map and marines can still keeping there base for years untill they get overruned. Rifle-Marines are simply stronger than skulks in lategame, thats why.
And:
The try to bring some new game-mechanics into the game is not whinning, my darling ;) .<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marine bases die pretty easy when marines aren't there, but then I suppose thats what makes beacon a problem.
Aliens don't have beacon, and it tends to be whips and hydras are there to slow down marines until aliens can get there to defend it.
Probably the biggest reason alien bases feel soft is JP+GL, and fact arcs trains will drop every alien structure in a room in a single salvo. No alien ability can drop all the marine structures that way. But then aliens can kill the power, effectively dropping the room. With enough aliens, they won't be able to beacon.
What you're suggesting basically requires flamethrowers to do anything on infestation. This effectively forces marines to use flamethrowers which are going to hard counter infestation. Hard counters are bad because there is no middle road. Making an incredibly imbalanced mechanic that can only be effectively fought with a high tech weapon. It is just bad ideas all around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Currently, most marines kill all cysts on sight anyways (without flamethrowers). But inf. will slowdown marines alot to run through the infestation.
"incredebly imbalanced mechanic" lol. You dont know you dont know you dont know , its fine :>.
Its a shame to add something cool like Infestation into the game only as a requirement to build stuff on it. Boring.
Edit:
"They revolve around skulks and marines, hives and phase gates, extractors and harvesters."
The game is about 2 units and 3 buildings for you. What a tricky game.
That needs to change IMO.
I am fully against the idea of having marines show up on infestation; that would be like implementing a wallhack for aliens in the game. As it is right now (giving the alien com "cloud vision and hearing" for marines on infestation) I think it's fine as far as visibility.
I also don't think poison effects or any health drawbacks or benefits are a good idea; just personal preference.
What infestation really needs to do IMO is to give speed upgrades to aliens and drawbacks to marines. If there are already speed upgrades/drawbacks, they need to be made APPARENT. I want to be afraid of going on infestation as marine, and feel empowered by being in infestation as alien. I think a noticeable speed buff for alien life forms on infestation AND speed nerf for marines on infestation will do the trick just fine, and make flamethrowers actually very important. It will also considerably reduce "sniping" alien upgrades, "sniping" RTs in hive locations, "ninja" phase gates, etc. etc.
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+1 for all of your statements!
Additionally I would like to see flamethrower doing far more damage to organics than it currently does (almost none). Let's burn away infestation (instead of getting the axe to slash down a stupid cyst...)! Btw.: the infestation should be more slimy... large drops falling down the ceilings and stuff :-P
I disagree. That creates a forced counter for Marines to buy Welders and Flamers for clear infestation. Not only does that set you back early but you now have a conversion of Tres costs to Pres counter-cost creating a weird economy of cost-benefit. Balanceable in theory, but difficult to get right.
Flamers need a bit of rework still. Their niche is energy drain, but almost not damage to back it up. Compared to the other "niche" weapon, GLs, which can still do decent damage either en masse or with competent skill. According to the Wiki, it does about the same damage as a LMG to regular units. Just with a way smaller range, and 3x damage to buildings. And employs a stack mechanic for extra damage if you can keep the enemy under fire (really, really hard for non-Onos/non-Structures).
I think Flamers should move to the TF2 flame model. Instead of the stack model for damage, it does raw damage while the target is being burned and adds a lingering debuff burn for incidental damage. That way it can do decent damage up front and still have a nice burning effect if you use it to sweep Cysts and other buildings en masse.
Sidenote, why is the bonus damage on the ignite (linger dmg) only for Cysts and Clogs? And what Alien structure isn't flammable (to get bonus on main damage)?
As for Infestation, there's 2 really, really good reasons to hack it down. 1) Remove Aliens building space. 2) Ensure Marines have building space. It's a much more RTS aspect to the game, not a FPS inherent bonus. I'm mostly fine with how it interacts in the game, although there is some room for improvement.
it would be like having a shield that you have to aim, and effectively you'd be pushing the smaller aliens away from your team mates and your self to keep them out of bite range.
This would make up for the lack of damage, and make it a very desirable weapon, especially with all of its extra effects