If people can keep the flames low, I think the thread has a purpose.
I agree there aren't servers labelled newbies only, but there are atleast in EU difference in who I meet on various servers. On the heavy populated servers, there are often enough skilled people to prevent 1 person from dominating. But when those servers are full, I often end up in servers with people that play at a different level. If I join a server with a few people messing around trying to learn the game, I give myself handicap while they learn the game, and try and help out. Sort of like Squirell described. I think that's what adds to the community. I also think it's good to name the great players like Floodinator does. I have played with some of them, and it's a great experience in regards to learning and improving (and not as much in regards to spending more time spawning ;) )
ive been looking at the game code lately because im interested in making a mod ... and i find it highly idiotic why people are saying hackers arent in this game
i have 2 copies of this game (thanks UWE) and i could easily cheat if i wanted, its quite a simple thing to do really. And the best part about it is that if anyone calls me out as cheating, i will get random people coming to my defense, saying im just a skilled player 8)
im kind of motivated to try it, especially when somebody says "there are no cheaters in this game yet"
People hack, some of them are good players some are noobs. I think anyone who says "there is no hacking in NS2" is naive in believing that.
Sure its not like CS before VAC came in or bf3 now...but I have seen people who I know are hacking. Presently though they are low in numbers but it is something that will impact NS2 like it does EVERY OTHER GAME.
As long as said cheaters don't post videos of them playing in first person, claims that they are NOT cheaters are just as ludicrous as the claims that they are. I find it a little problematic that everyone here immediately assumes every player accused of cheating is probably going to be 'a good player'. That shows quite a high level of faith in other human beings. Wouldn't be the first time that a supposed 'pro gamer' turned out to be a cheater.
Keep this naivete going and it will drive this community into the ground in no time.
<!--quoteo(post=1979464:date=Sep 18 2012, 11:47 AM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Sep 18 2012, 11:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979464"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People hack, some of them are good players some are noobs. I think anyone who says "there is no hacking in NS2" is naive in believing that.
Sure its not like CS before VAC came in or bf3 now...but I have seen people who I know are hacking. Presently though they are low in numbers but it is something that will impact NS2 like it does EVERY OTHER GAME.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well we have some methods to see cheaters by simply recording a game and run it trough some little tools that shows where he looked, when, at wich angel and precision.
And after playing 2 years with those guys and sitting with them in Teamspeak and playing NS1 with them almost 10 years ago I can say they are cleaner than my toilet!
And for info it isn't only the aim that counts, f.e. watch fana playing. Alot has to do how and where you stand and hearing from where the Aliens come. Often you can say 10s before the Alien comes in LoS where he is (vent, top left around the corner etc.). Aim is only 50% of theyr K/Dy.
<!--quoteo(post=1979462:date=Sep 18 2012, 12:41 PM:name=piratedave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (piratedave @ Sep 18 2012, 12:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979462"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ive been looking at the game code lately because im interested in making a mod ... and i find it highly idiotic why people are saying hackers arent in this game
i have 2 copies of this game (thanks UWE) and i could easily cheat if i wanted, its quite a simple thing to do really. And the best part about it is that if anyone calls me out as cheating, i will get random people coming to my defense, saying im just a skilled player 8)
im kind of motivated to try it, especially when somebody says "there are no cheaters in this game yet"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is widely known that the game is easy to hack right not, before the consistency checks are implemented. The forums are full of the more productive modifications, and I've understood that doing borderline-to-pure-hack -modifications is pretty easy. So sure, I believe that people are using modifications that give them unfair advantage. Otherwise it would be the first FPS game I've played that didn't have them.
And sure, you would get someone to defend you when accused for hacking, because calling high-skilled players cheaters is so prevalent. I think every moderate-to-high -skilled player hears grumblings about their kill streaks from time to time. It is a somewhat annoying phenomenon, and that doubt and unanswered accusations are bad for the community and the game. If these accusations are not adressed by either peer pressure or spectating or whatever, more and more players will have the idea that a lot of hackers are around. This will make them lose interest in the game and also lower the treshold for them trying out hacks themselves, since "everyone is doing it".
So yes, I will try and speak out when I think someone is unjustly blamed of cheating. Been there myself, although probably a lot more rarely than some of the very best players. First person spectate would be nice, as would consistency checking, as would several others yet-to-be-implemented safeguards. Until then we only have our own judgement to use :(
EDIT: Do we have any tools for detecting hackers right now? I know you can record your own game via the games demo record feature... Can you use the 1st person spectate mod with this recording data to post-spectate another player?
<!--quoteo(post=1979474:date=Sep 18 2012, 09:01 PM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Sep 18 2012, 09:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979474"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well we have some methods to see cheaters by simply recording a game and run it trough some little tools that shows where he looked, when, at wich angel and precision.
And after playing 2 years with those guys and sitting with them in Teamspeak and playing NS1 with them almost 10 years ago I can say they are cleaner than my toilet!
And for info it isn't only the aim that counts, f.e. watch fana playing. Alot has to do how and where you stand and hearing from where the Aliens come. Often you can say 10s before the Alien comes in LoS where he is (vent, top left around the corner etc.). Aim is only 50% of theyr K/Dy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Really you can vouch for people I have not identified? I think you may have quoted the wrong person as how do your comments relate to my post
I have been playing NS for a long time but prior to that FPS's from teh early CS days and know a cheat when I see one, play with one and against one. I have played with and against some of the best going around competitive gaming in australia over the years and am not a stranger to a good player.
If you believe that just because you played besides them that they dont hack then I pity you, been many a high profile player that has been shamed by being caught hacking over the years. I know a lot of people who stopped using whitewalls etc when valve started checking files...but hey these are well known players so they could not have possibly done that right?
Truth is that hacking does happen, you will notice I never claimed the people I indicated where hacking had amazing K:D ratios as thats not something to really look at (actually more an indicator of someone spawn camping....or similar such tactic).
So thanks for your comments...shame they had nothing to do with my post.
Sometimes I also think there are hackers. When I first joined the beta (playing since... like 3 weeks) I faced in one game sexysuit. I so thought he definetly must be hacking. Then on youtube there was competive match with him, so I knew I must be wrong. Just bear with it and try your best.
Another thing however is, when good players are joining the same team and the other team is full of noobs. Thats just no fun. You cant learn much when you die instantly.
Most fun is with many players and then it goes all random teams. Those are the best games for me =). I still suck at hitting good skulks, but sometimes there is a surprise for myself.
The quote is responding to my first sentences, the next paragraph has nothing to do with your post.
Regarding the reacent threads about cheaters, I loled about the speedhacjer thread because it was sinply guys dropping his guns, so -1 cheater thread. Another thread is about people killing 3-4 Skulks and gaving a K/D of 34/3, also really nothing special for NS/NS2.
And the cheater threads will ve spammmmmed soin when 1.0 is out because alot of new players join the game. As I said with the profiler tools and a recorded game it is easy to detect anomalies. Sure there may be pseudo hackers (a la r_mode unlit some builds ago, I also don't have shadows, bloom, atmospherics off and that is not because of performance), but that is all legal since it is in the options or aviable per console command. Also the best part I've read was about the Aimbot Fade.... And as we all know Players has a basic Aimbot coded but even in 3. person you can see if a player never misses, you don't really need 1. Person, if you think a player cheats record it and run some profile tools (f.e. Traces and hits) to see if it is true. Done this on several players that were accused 100 time to be cheaters but always nothing was to see or the "Wallhacks" was just a very very loud Skulk, so he knew he will cone around the corner in 3s.
And of those 300-400 players that are online playing NS2 around 50 must have an Aimbot/Wallhacks etc. if those threads and players on the Servesr are right. NS2 is full of hackers anyway soon, lets wait till 1.0 is out and those threads will come out like weed growing in the garden.
<!--quoteo(post=1979386:date=Sep 18 2012, 06:03 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Sep 18 2012, 06:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979386"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wasn't aware my participation in a server constituted "ruining" it. Would it be better if everyone like me was herded into a camp somewhere so all of you pure NS2 players could enjoy the game in peace? It looks like I've gone and fallen under the illusion I have some sort of right to play this game approximately near in value to yours; stupid me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The worst one is when competitive players change their name and intentionally stack. I see it pretty regularly and its just lame, if you are very good then you really need to try balance out the teams. See an arc guy on one side? Join the other. I would say this is specifically bad on the clans own server, immune probably being the worst. I get that you want to play with your friends but really having 2 arc guys on 1 team and a bunch of puggers on the other is just no fun for either side.
Tbh this is why we need skill based matchmaking, I can just about deal with most of the clan players because I've played alot but I know 30 hours of play ago I wouldnt at all and it would just put people off. You dont play your first LoL match against a 2000+ ELO team for a reason...
DghelneshiAims to surpass Fana in post edits.Join Date: 2011-11-01Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited September 2012
Tell me how to assess "skill" in a 10v10 game where there's one player on each team not even attacking anything, Gorges healing stuff, Skulks exclusively biting res nodes while Fades are only killing marines (at a very high K/D ratio since they cost so much) and the GL guy and the one welding the Exo not getting any kills while dying pretty often.
It's not possible to get something even remotely close to a meaningful ELO rating in a complex game like this.
Edit: People are also <b>VERY </b>obsessed about high score lists and ranks. Once you have a rating system in your game, people will do <b>everything </b>to cheat the system and get a higher rating even if they are not actually "good", <b>especially </b>if you have servers requiring a certain rating to be able to play. If you base your rating system on kills, people <b>will </b>stop playing commander, stop being gorge, stop being onos, stop destroying structures, stop welding.
The quote is responding to my first sentences, the next paragraph has nothing to do with your post.
Regarding the reacent threads about cheaters, I loled about the speedhacjer thread because it was sinply guys dropping his guns, so -1 cheater thread. Another thread is about people killing 3-4 Skulks and gaving a K/D of 34/3, also really nothing special for NS/NS2.
And the cheater threads will ve spammmmmed soin when 1.0 is out because alot of new players join the game. As I said with the profiler tools and a recorded game it is easy to detect anomalies. Sure there may be pseudo hackers (a la r_mode unlit some builds ago, I also don't have shadows, bloom, atmospherics off and that is not because of performance), but that is all legal since it is in the options or aviable per console command. Also the best part I've read was about the Aimbot Fade.... And as we all know Players has a basic Aimbot coded but even in 3. person you can see if a player never misses, you don't really need 1. Person, if you think a player cheats record it and run some profile tools (f.e. Traces and hits) to see if it is true. Done this on several players that were accused 100 time to be cheaters but always nothing was to see or the "Wallhacks" was just a very very loud Skulk, so he knew he will cone around the corner in 3s.
And of those 300-400 players that are online playing NS2 around 50 must have an Aimbot/Wallhacks etc. if those threads and players on the Servesr are right. NS2 is full of hackers anyway soon, lets wait till 1.0 is out and those threads will come out like weed growing in the garden.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ?what I am more confused...why did you quote my post?
Did you even play CS or TFC before steam? Do you know why fraps and screen capturing programmes became default in any credible comp? It aint for highlight reels (well thats not the official purpose...(outside of marketing the comps)).
But you are free to believe there are no hackers....father xmas will be stopping by shortly along with the easter bunny and tooth fairy.... Oh and I also have a great bridge you can buy...hardly used...will located in a beautiful harbor in sydney...you might have seen some pics. /me walks away slowly scratching head...
<!--quoteo(post=1979464:date=Sep 18 2012, 11:47 AM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Sep 18 2012, 11:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979464"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People hack, some of them are good players some are noobs. I think anyone who says "there is no hacking in NS2" is naive in believing that.
Sure its not like CS before VAC came in or bf3 now...but I have seen people who I know are hacking. Presently though they are low in numbers but it is something that will impact NS2 like it does EVERY OTHER GAME.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^THIS.
It's as stupid to say that 34/0 K/D is a cheater as it is to say that there are no cheaters in NS2. Both is extremely naive. I have thought more than once that I played against a cheater. But I can't proof it. I also have played more than once against well known comp-players and yes, they are very good but not that good. Not like the maybe/maybe-not cheaters I have seen. Anyway. As I said, I can't proof it. Maybe it was enduring luck, maybe not. But one thing should be on your mind: If there is a player cheating in NS2 it is most likely someone who also plays the game very often. The normal casual pubber won't sacrifice the time to edit lua files. He just want to play for fun when he has some time after work. The players that know that game in every bit are much more tempted to look or tweak in the luas. Just because there are good players, doesn't mean that there are no cheaters. And just because a player plays in comp-matches, doesn't mean he is not cheating.
On another note: What is this bs with smurfing on a pub? Why would somebody want to do such a thing? To hide its known name so nobody want to teamstack with him? BS! It needs one round to see at the K/D who is a good player and stack with him in the next round if you like. I can tell you why smurfing occurs in most other games. Because this people want to cheat and don't want to get caught with their well known names.
I have no problem playing against a well known comp-player. I see his name and think: "Ok, he is really damn good. Lets try again." And I'm happy if I manage to finally kill him after he did the same to me 10 times. But if I see a obvious random named player that plays even better than the comp-players I have met, than it's not fun.
Also I understand that every comp-player wants to play on pubs too. But I have regularly seen servers that got empty because of massive steamrolling round after round. That is simply no fun and I fully understand people that disconnect because they are sick of it. The bad part is, it just ruins the game. At least try to avoid team stacking.
<!--quoteo(post=1979553:date=Sep 18 2012, 04:45 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Sep 18 2012, 04:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979553"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On another note: What is this bs with smurfing on a pub? Why would somebody want to do such a thing? To hide its known name so nobody want to teamstack with him? BS! It needs one round to see at the K/D who is a good player and stack with him in the next round if you like. I can tell you why smurfing occurs in most other games. Because this people want to cheat and don't want to get caught with their well known names.
I have no problem playing against a well known comp-player. I see his name and think: "Ok, he is really damn good. Lets try again." And I'm happy if I manage to finally kill him after he did the same to me 10 times. But if I see a obvious random named player that plays even better than the comp-players I have met, than it's not fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Crying "stack" has become pretty much the same as the boy crying wolf in the story. Some people judge rounds stacked based on the most strange criteria, and apparently maybe 75% of rounds are marine stacked, to judge from these cries. I started smurfing because this way I could have more balanced rounds with less cries of "stacks". I do not know if this just my imagination or something to do with me expecting more of myself when I have my tag on, but anyway, I seem to be able to avoid more of the needless stack-cries when smurfing.
At least the NS2Stats site tracks both nickname and steam account name, but I do not know if there is a way to see steam nicks from console. Anyway, at least on NS2Stats-servers players are trackable, and also, if you use Steam overlay -> View Players, you will see everyones steam names -> You can often guess who the pro player is. Having a fake nick doesn't really allow you to hide that much from someone who wants to put a little bit of effort into it.
So, if you see an obvious random named smurf, just check their Steam name and voila, you now know who that player is.
<!--quoteo(post=1979542:date=Sep 18 2012, 02:26 PM:name=Dghelneshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dghelneshi @ Sep 18 2012, 02:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979542"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tell me how to assess "skill" in a 10v10 game where there's one player on each team not even attacking anything, Gorges healing stuff, Skulks exclusively biting res nodes while Fades are only killing marines (at a very high K/D ratio since they cost so much) and the GL guy and the one welding the Exo not getting any kills while dying pretty often.
It's not possible to get something even remotely close to a meaningful ELO rating in a complex game like this.
Edit: People are also <b>VERY </b>obsessed about high score lists and ranks. Once you have a rating system in your game, people will do <b>everything </b>to cheat the system and get a higher rating even if they are not actually "good", <b>especially </b>if you have servers requiring a certain rating to be able to play. If you base your rating system on kills, people <b>will </b>stop playing commander, stop being gorge, stop being onos, stop destroying structures, stop welding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't believe this at all. Most competitive players already don't play gorge etc. very much even without stats. Y'know why? Because it's boring. It takes no skill to baby sit other players and heal them. People want to have fun and combat with other players is the most fun. I think you are believing people put more emphasis on stats than they really do. Ranking players kia K/D is not perfect, but it will give a good approximation of skill level. Of course when you play gorge you are not getting kills but you are also not dying very often and better players will in general have higher K/D overall. Just balancing the teams via elo rankings based on kills and deaths would help a lot with team stacking.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But you are free to believe there are no hackers....father xmas will be stopping by shortly along with the easter bunny and tooth fairy....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I find this ironic since you are the one making the claims. You have absolutely no evidence of anyone hacking and yet you claim 100% that you KNOW they are. I just know the flying spaghetti monster is real, I know it, but if you don't believe it then you're a sucker. Show me any shred of evidence you have, or else admit you have none.
Squirreli, stacking is a real issue IMO. I believe it is because of the design of ns2 it punishes you for your team mates mistakes so it encourages people to stack as they will have more fun and less frustration that way. A lot of the competitive players I see are guilty of this. Often I see 2-3 with the same tag playing on the same team over and over. I used to always try and play on the opposite team as players that I knew were good because I like the challenge, but it's not fun if the teams are unbalanced and you just get trapped in your base with the first few minutes. Really this problem can only be solved with elo ranking and a votebalance style vote imo.
<!--quoteo(post=1979577:date=Sep 18 2012, 05:39 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Sep 18 2012, 05:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979577"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Squirreli, stacking is a real issue IMO. I believe it is because of the design of ns2 it punishes you for your team mates mistakes so it encourages people to stack as they will have more fun and less frustration that way. A lot of the competitive players I see are guilty of this. Often I see 2-3 with the same tag playing on the same team over and over. I used to always try and play on the opposite team as players that I knew were good because I like the challenge, but it's not fun if the teams are unbalanced and you just get trapped in your base with the first few minutes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I agree, stacking is an issue. It is just that with some people every round is stacked, no matter what, and there is no other reason for a loss except stacking. It gets really old really quick, especially since these people are often vocal. This only harms their cause. Now, personally I try to not mind too much. Oh, and I do try to avoid stacking. It's not the legit stack accusations that annoy me.
Well I guess you could argue that it is true that the team that won was the more skilful and therefore stacked. Not intentionally of course, but it doesn't really matter. Even when you voterandom the teams are often very one sided.
Someone called me a hacker once, it has only ever happened once, it was the biggest compliment I could ever get, I envy the guys who get called hackers on a regular basis.
Might as well drop all the hacker talk. Hackers are completely immune because 100% proof can never be provided. Not only are hackers allowed to remain on their competitive teams and compete in tournaments they are reinstated into the UWE Playtest team after already being kicked for hacking. Even though enough evidence was presented to convict a person for murder and sentenced to death, anything short of 100% proof with a confession will go unpunished... even resulting in some accusers getting punished. I would never advise someone to hack, de-friend everyone, create 3 new steam accounts, torment and verbally abuse every new player you come across, and risk the reputation of the top competitive team you belong to... unless the NAPT lead has your back.
If you have access to an Academic Research database, like PsychINFO, or EBSCOHost, feel free to look up a couple of articles on "In-group Bias" and "Out-group Denegration."
You're welcome for helping you better understand yourself. <3
Those be big words there, you better be able to back them up with actual decent proof, and not just that complete ###### video that took 3 weeks and shows absolutely nothing.
I would shut up because your just making yourself, and every other player that brings the issue up, look like a complete retard.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Not sure how this thread stayed open for this long.
Short version? No. 'Calling out' hackers, cheaters, bad servers, and the like are not permitted on the NS forums. If there is an issue, contact the server admins/owners directly if possible. If someone is exploiting a bug or glitch, report the bug, don't come here and complain about the person using it. A degree of civility is expected. Throwing mud is not permitted here, regardless of circumstance or whether it is deserved or not.
Comments
I agree there aren't servers labelled newbies only, but there are atleast in EU difference in who I meet on various servers. On the heavy populated servers, there are often enough skilled people to prevent 1 person from dominating. But when those servers are full, I often end up in servers with people that play at a different level. If I join a server with a few people messing around trying to learn the game, I give myself handicap while they learn the game, and try and help out. Sort of like Squirell described. I think that's what adds to the community. I also think it's good to name the great players like Floodinator does. I have played with some of them, and it's a great experience in regards to learning and improving (and not as much in regards to spending more time spawning ;) )
i have 2 copies of this game (thanks UWE) and i could easily cheat if i wanted, its quite a simple thing to do really. And the best part about it is that if anyone calls me out as cheating, i will get random people coming to my defense, saying im just a skilled player 8)
im kind of motivated to try it, especially when somebody says "there are no cheaters in this game yet"
I think anyone who says "there is no hacking in NS2" is naive in believing that.
Sure its not like CS before VAC came in or bf3 now...but I have seen people who I know are hacking.
Presently though they are low in numbers but it is something that will impact NS2 like it does EVERY OTHER GAME.
Keep this naivete going and it will drive this community into the ground in no time.
I think anyone who says "there is no hacking in NS2" is naive in believing that.
Sure its not like CS before VAC came in or bf3 now...but I have seen people who I know are hacking.
Presently though they are low in numbers but it is something that will impact NS2 like it does EVERY OTHER GAME.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well we have some methods to see cheaters by simply recording a game and run it trough some little tools that shows where he looked, when, at wich angel and precision.
And after playing 2 years with those guys and sitting with them in Teamspeak and playing NS1 with them almost 10 years ago I can say they are cleaner than my toilet!
And for info it isn't only the aim that counts, f.e. watch fana playing. Alot has to do how and where you stand and hearing from where the Aliens come. Often you can say 10s before the Alien comes in LoS where he is (vent, top left around the corner etc.). Aim is only 50% of theyr K/Dy.
i have 2 copies of this game (thanks UWE) and i could easily cheat if i wanted, its quite a simple thing to do really. And the best part about it is that if anyone calls me out as cheating, i will get random people coming to my defense, saying im just a skilled player 8)
im kind of motivated to try it, especially when somebody says "there are no cheaters in this game yet"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is widely known that the game is easy to hack right not, before the consistency checks are implemented. The forums are full of the more productive modifications, and I've understood that doing borderline-to-pure-hack -modifications is pretty easy. So sure, I believe that people are using modifications that give them unfair advantage. Otherwise it would be the first FPS game I've played that didn't have them.
And sure, you would get someone to defend you when accused for hacking, because calling high-skilled players cheaters is so prevalent. I think every moderate-to-high -skilled player hears grumblings about their kill streaks from time to time. It is a somewhat annoying phenomenon, and that doubt and unanswered accusations are bad for the community and the game. If these accusations are not adressed by either peer pressure or spectating or whatever, more and more players will have the idea that a lot of hackers are around. This will make them lose interest in the game and also lower the treshold for them trying out hacks themselves, since "everyone is doing it".
So yes, I will try and speak out when I think someone is unjustly blamed of cheating. Been there myself, although probably a lot more rarely than some of the very best players. First person spectate would be nice, as would consistency checking, as would several others yet-to-be-implemented safeguards. Until then we only have our own judgement to use :(
EDIT: Do we have any tools for detecting hackers right now? I know you can record your own game via the games demo record feature... Can you use the 1st person spectate mod with this recording data to post-spectate another player?
And after playing 2 years with those guys and sitting with them in Teamspeak and playing NS1 with them almost 10 years ago I can say they are cleaner than my toilet!
And for info it isn't only the aim that counts, f.e. watch fana playing. Alot has to do how and where you stand and hearing from where the Aliens come. Often you can say 10s before the Alien comes in LoS where he is (vent, top left around the corner etc.). Aim is only 50% of theyr K/Dy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really you can vouch for people I have not identified?
I think you may have quoted the wrong person as how do your comments relate to my post
I have been playing NS for a long time but prior to that FPS's from teh early CS days and know a cheat when I see one, play with one and against one.
I have played with and against some of the best going around competitive gaming in australia over the years and am not a stranger to a good player.
If you believe that just because you played besides them that they dont hack then I pity you, been many a high profile player that has been shamed by being caught hacking over the years.
I know a lot of people who stopped using whitewalls etc when valve started checking files...but hey these are well known players so they could not have possibly done that right?
Truth is that hacking does happen, you will notice I never claimed the people I indicated where hacking had amazing K:D ratios as thats not something to really look at (actually more an indicator of someone spawn camping....or similar such tactic).
So thanks for your comments...shame they had nothing to do with my post.
Another thing however is, when good players are joining the same team and the other team is full of noobs. Thats just no fun. You cant learn much when you die instantly.
Most fun is with many players and then it goes all random teams. Those are the best games for me =).
I still suck at hitting good skulks, but sometimes there is a surprise for myself.
The quote is responding to my first sentences, the next paragraph has nothing to do with your post.
Regarding the reacent threads about cheaters, I loled about the speedhacjer thread because it was sinply guys dropping his guns, so -1 cheater thread.
Another thread is about people killing 3-4 Skulks and gaving a K/D of 34/3, also really nothing special for NS/NS2.
And the cheater threads will ve spammmmmed soin when 1.0 is out because alot of new players join the game. As I said with the profiler tools and a recorded game it is easy to detect anomalies. Sure there may be pseudo hackers (a la r_mode unlit some builds ago, I also don't have shadows, bloom, atmospherics off and that is not because of performance), but that is all legal since it is in the options or aviable per console command.
Also the best part I've read was about the Aimbot Fade....
And as we all know Players has a basic Aimbot coded but even in 3. person you can see if a player never misses, you don't really need 1. Person, if you think a player cheats record it and run some profile tools (f.e. Traces and hits) to see if it is true. Done this on several players that were accused 100 time to be cheaters but always nothing was to see or the "Wallhacks" was just a very very loud Skulk, so he knew he will cone around the corner in 3s.
And of those 300-400 players that are online playing NS2 around 50 must have an Aimbot/Wallhacks etc. if those threads and players on the Servesr are right.
NS2 is full of hackers anyway soon, lets wait till 1.0 is out and those threads will come out like weed growing in the garden.
The worst one is when competitive players change their name and intentionally stack. I see it pretty regularly and its just lame, if you are very good then you really need to try balance out the teams. See an arc guy on one side? Join the other. I would say this is specifically bad on the clans own server, immune probably being the worst. I get that you want to play with your friends but really having 2 arc guys on 1 team and a bunch of puggers on the other is just no fun for either side.
Tbh this is why we need skill based matchmaking, I can just about deal with most of the clan players because I've played alot but I know 30 hours of play ago I wouldnt at all and it would just put people off. You dont play your first LoL match against a 2000+ ELO team for a reason...
It's not possible to get something even remotely close to a meaningful ELO rating in a complex game like this.
Edit: People are also <b>VERY </b>obsessed about high score lists and ranks. Once you have a rating system in your game, people will do <b>everything </b>to cheat the system and get a higher rating even if they are not actually "good", <b>especially </b>if you have servers requiring a certain rating to be able to play. If you base your rating system on kills, people <b>will </b>stop playing commander, stop being gorge, stop being onos, stop destroying structures, stop welding.
The quote is responding to my first sentences, the next paragraph has nothing to do with your post.
Regarding the reacent threads about cheaters, I loled about the speedhacjer thread because it was sinply guys dropping his guns, so -1 cheater thread.
Another thread is about people killing 3-4 Skulks and gaving a K/D of 34/3, also really nothing special for NS/NS2.
And the cheater threads will ve spammmmmed soin when 1.0 is out because alot of new players join the game. As I said with the profiler tools and a recorded game it is easy to detect anomalies. Sure there may be pseudo hackers (a la r_mode unlit some builds ago, I also don't have shadows, bloom, atmospherics off and that is not because of performance), but that is all legal since it is in the options or aviable per console command.
Also the best part I've read was about the Aimbot Fade....
And as we all know Players has a basic Aimbot coded but even in 3. person you can see if a player never misses, you don't really need 1. Person, if you think a player cheats record it and run some profile tools (f.e. Traces and hits) to see if it is true. Done this on several players that were accused 100 time to be cheaters but always nothing was to see or the "Wallhacks" was just a very very loud Skulk, so he knew he will cone around the corner in 3s.
And of those 300-400 players that are online playing NS2 around 50 must have an Aimbot/Wallhacks etc. if those threads and players on the Servesr are right.
NS2 is full of hackers anyway soon, lets wait till 1.0 is out and those threads will come out like weed growing in the garden.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
?what I am more confused...why did you quote my post?
Did you even play CS or TFC before steam? Do you know why fraps and screen capturing programmes became default in any credible comp?
It aint for highlight reels (well thats not the official purpose...(outside of marketing the comps)).
But you are free to believe there are no hackers....father xmas will be stopping by shortly along with the easter bunny and tooth fairy....
Oh and I also have a great bridge you can buy...hardly used...will located in a beautiful harbor in sydney...you might have seen some pics.
/me walks away slowly scratching head...
I think anyone who says "there is no hacking in NS2" is naive in believing that.
Sure its not like CS before VAC came in or bf3 now...but I have seen people who I know are hacking.
Presently though they are low in numbers but it is something that will impact NS2 like it does EVERY OTHER GAME.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^THIS.
It's as stupid to say that 34/0 K/D is a cheater as it is to say that there are no cheaters in NS2. Both is extremely naive. I have thought more than once that I played against a cheater. But I can't proof it. I also have played more than once against well known comp-players and yes, they are very good but not that good. Not like the maybe/maybe-not cheaters I have seen. Anyway. As I said, I can't proof it. Maybe it was enduring luck, maybe not. But one thing should be on your mind:
If there is a player cheating in NS2 it is most likely someone who also plays the game very often. The normal casual pubber won't sacrifice the time to edit lua files. He just want to play for fun when he has some time after work. The players that know that game in every bit are much more tempted to look or tweak in the luas. Just because there are good players, doesn't mean that there are no cheaters. And just because a player plays in comp-matches, doesn't mean he is not cheating.
On another note: What is this bs with smurfing on a pub? Why would somebody want to do such a thing? To hide its known name so nobody want to teamstack with him? BS! It needs one round to see at the K/D who is a good player and stack with him in the next round if you like.
I can tell you why smurfing occurs in most other games. Because this people want to cheat and don't want to get caught with their well known names.
I have no problem playing against a well known comp-player. I see his name and think: "Ok, he is really damn good. Lets try again." And I'm happy if I manage to finally kill him after he did the same to me 10 times. But if I see a obvious random named player that plays even better than the comp-players I have met, than it's not fun.
Also I understand that every comp-player wants to play on pubs too. But I have regularly seen servers that got empty because of massive steamrolling round after round. That is simply no fun and I fully understand people that disconnect because they are sick of it. The bad part is, it just ruins the game. At least try to avoid team stacking.
I can tell you why smurfing occurs in most other games. Because this people want to cheat and don't want to get caught with their well known names.
I have no problem playing against a well known comp-player. I see his name and think: "Ok, he is really damn good. Lets try again." And I'm happy if I manage to finally kill him after he did the same to me 10 times. But if I see a obvious random named player that plays even better than the comp-players I have met, than it's not fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Crying "stack" has become pretty much the same as the boy crying wolf in the story. Some people judge rounds stacked based on the most strange criteria, and apparently maybe 75% of rounds are marine stacked, to judge from these cries. I started smurfing because this way I could have more balanced rounds with less cries of "stacks". I do not know if this just my imagination or something to do with me expecting more of myself when I have my tag on, but anyway, I seem to be able to avoid more of the needless stack-cries when smurfing.
At least the NS2Stats site tracks both nickname and steam account name, but I do not know if there is a way to see steam nicks from console. Anyway, at least on NS2Stats-servers players are trackable, and also, if you use Steam overlay -> View Players, you will see everyones steam names -> You can often guess who the pro player is. Having a fake nick doesn't really allow you to hide that much from someone who wants to put a little bit of effort into it.
So, if you see an obvious random named smurf, just check their Steam name and voila, you now know who that player is.
It's not possible to get something even remotely close to a meaningful ELO rating in a complex game like this.
Edit: People are also <b>VERY </b>obsessed about high score lists and ranks. Once you have a rating system in your game, people will do <b>everything </b>to cheat the system and get a higher rating even if they are not actually "good", <b>especially </b>if you have servers requiring a certain rating to be able to play. If you base your rating system on kills, people <b>will </b>stop playing commander, stop being gorge, stop being onos, stop destroying structures, stop welding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't believe this at all. Most competitive players already don't play gorge etc. very much even without stats. Y'know why? Because it's boring. It takes no skill to baby sit other players and heal them. People want to have fun and combat with other players is the most fun. I think you are believing people put more emphasis on stats than they really do. Ranking players kia K/D is not perfect, but it will give a good approximation of skill level. Of course when you play gorge you are not getting kills but you are also not dying very often and better players will in general have higher K/D overall. Just balancing the teams via elo rankings based on kills and deaths would help a lot with team stacking.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But you are free to believe there are no hackers....father xmas will be stopping by shortly along with the easter bunny and tooth fairy....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find this ironic since you are the one making the claims. You have absolutely no evidence of anyone hacking and yet you claim 100% that you KNOW they are. I just know the flying spaghetti monster is real, I know it, but if you don't believe it then you're a sucker. Show me any shred of evidence you have, or else admit you have none.
Squirreli, stacking is a real issue IMO. I believe it is because of the design of ns2 it punishes you for your team mates mistakes so it encourages people to stack as they will have more fun and less frustration that way. A lot of the competitive players I see are guilty of this. Often I see 2-3 with the same tag playing on the same team over and over. I used to always try and play on the opposite team as players that I knew were good because I like the challenge, but it's not fun if the teams are unbalanced and you just get trapped in your base with the first few minutes. Really this problem can only be solved with elo ranking and a votebalance style vote imo.
Yeah, I agree, stacking is an issue. It is just that with some people every round is stacked, no matter what, and there is no other reason for a loss except stacking. It gets really old really quick, especially since these people are often vocal. This only harms their cause. Now, personally I try to not mind too much. Oh, and I do try to avoid stacking. It's not the legit stack accusations that annoy me.
WHAT YOU HAVE I WANT SO BAD I CAN TASTE IT
You're welcome for helping you better understand yourself. <3
I would shut up because your just making yourself, and every other player that brings the issue up, look like a complete retard.
Short version? No.
'Calling out' hackers, cheaters, bad servers, and the like are not permitted on the NS forums. If there is an issue, contact the server admins/owners directly if possible. If someone is exploiting a bug or glitch, report the bug, don't come here and complain about the person using it. A degree of civility is expected. Throwing mud is not permitted here, regardless of circumstance or whether it is deserved or not.
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro--><b>*LOCKED.*</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->