Steam Achievements?
Nekrage
Join Date: 2007-07-20 Member: 61635Members
Join Date: 2007-07-20 Member: 61635Members
Is there any plans to implement Steam Achievements into NS2? I think the large amOunt of achievement hunters out there would add a great deal to the games population/sales....plus I love achievements.
P.S. thanks for the extra copy you guys are giving out, that was a real nice suprise.
-Nekrage
P.S. thanks for the extra copy you guys are giving out, that was a real nice suprise.
-Nekrage
Comments
Winning a game is quite like an achievement, isn't it? Killing 3 skulks in a row without reloading is also an "achievement". You will most likely be content with yourself after that and if the game recognizes this and gives you some kind of "reward", it supports you feeling good about yourself. If you feel good, you have fun playing the game.
Achievements can also give players ideas for other things to do in the game. Games can be so much more than just winning the round. There's all sorts of crazy stuff you can do in many games and having achievements helps players recognize it.
Of course, achievements can also be detrimental to the overall gameplay if people just start hunting for achievements. People tend to get obsessed about stats and points, even if it is no real competition and rewards persistance more than skill. This is very human and needs to be considered when integrating achievements into the game. People who already have those achievements or who don't care about them will get frustrated by others not actually playing the normal game if there are achievements for doing that.
<!--quoteo(post=1972558:date=Sep 6 2012, 07:12 AM:name=Oktober)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oktober @ Sep 6 2012, 07:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1972558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Inane acknowledgement of accomplishing the things that a game requires one to do apparently fills the void that uncaring parents have left in countless game players' lives.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course games support feeling good about yourself or something you do in the game. The gratification process is one of the main themes games are designed around and there's nothing wrong with it. Games are meant to be fun. No need to do dumb generalizations and pseudo psychology.
Why do you play games? To do dull work and/or make money? Most likely not.
I would rather want a scoreboard that shows the overall damaged dealt/healed/build&repaired. That would be enough to give a feedback and show others what you did in a round.
But what I can say openly against achievements is that <u>I don't want them displayed in NS2 while I play.</u> I don't want steam popups or even more ingame banners that show me that I walked 10m without poking my nose. What I want is to play the game with less distraction as possible. If I can turn that off or if that is only implemented into the steam overview and not in the game itself I don't mind achievements at all for the sake of people who don't trust their own self-affirmation.
<a href="http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-skinner-box" target="_blank">http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-skinner-box</a>
Achievement lists can act like a skinner box. Personally, I don't really care about achievements, but I don't mind them either as long as they're not in my face all the time.
The sort of player that Natural Selection is most likely to attract is someone who likes complex games with rapidly shifting objectives that require coordination and teamwork instead of putting yourself first. Playing Gorge or Lerk as pure support or welding a Phase Gate back to full health and then dropping mines or escorting a siege cannon or joining a mass JP/shotgun rush to the Hive while ignoring enemies or moving around the outsides of the map killing or building RTs are all things that don't really appeal to people who just want to be the top scorer or who just want to fight.
Along similar lines, these players often aren't big fans of achievements, because they get their fun from focusing on the objective in the game and putting the team ahead of themselves. Achievements are the opposite. They make you focus on doing silly arbitrary tricks even if that doesn't help your team win, and they require that you prioritize your own achievements ahead of what the team needs you to be doing right now.
Obviously it's not like this for everyone: some people mostly play NS because they like the combat dynamic of aliens vs. Marines, and some people (probably a lot of people) are, like the above linked PA TV episode points out, just psychologically inclined to go for achievements even if a rational examination of the situation would suggest that achievements are pretty silly.
Along similar lines, these players often aren't big fans of achievements, because they get their fun from focusing on the objective in the game and putting the team ahead of themselves. Achievements are the opposite. They make you focus on doing silly arbitrary tricks even if that doesn't help your team win, and they require that you prioritize your own achievements ahead of what the team needs you to be doing right now.
Obviously it's not like this for everyone: some people mostly play NS because they like the combat dynamic of aliens vs. Marines, and some people (probably a lot of people) are, like the above linked PA TV episode points out, just psychologically inclined to go for achievements even if a rational examination of the situation would suggest that achievements are pretty silly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've played NS a very long time. As well as NS2 and I play for the team aspect. I also think achievements are fun things to do. Every achievement could be team based - but nice attempt at being elitist.
Ya im surprised myself. I would love to see a Dev reply with their feelings about achievements.
I cant find a dev post about achievements, does anyone know if there is one on these forums? I would really appreciate a link.
<!--quoteo(post=1973083:date=Sep 6 2012, 10:59 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TychoCelchuuu @ Sep 6 2012, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1973083"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wasn't being elitist, I was just saying that unless the reptilian part of your brain lights up at Skinner box conditioning a little more than average, if you're the sort of person Natural Selection attracts then you're probably going to find more fun with focusing on team objectives rather than on personal achievements. I don't remember a single interesting thing I did in the original NS that wasn't focused on my overall team's objective in that particular game rather than a meta-game based on giving me badges for various things I did.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey theres nothing saying there cant be team based achievements. "Weld XXXX amount of armor in a single game"...."repair XXXX worth of building hp in a single game". No one is saying there should be achievements like "kill yourself 10 times in a game and screw your team over" lol.
Nevermind, no achievements please.
Because this is something that I have done, and I want recognition for that ######.
Edit: Now that I think about it, Outlaw and Antacid were both in the game where I did that.
Edit 2: Name it 'Everything but the kitchen sink' and make the icon a picture of an Onos getting smacked in the face with a kitchen sink.
I'm not saying you couldn't have achievements that reference teamwork, it's just that even those achievements still don't jive with the sort of thing people like in NS2. Imagine that aliens are attacking in a constant stream, 1-3 Skulks at a time, trying to take down your PG or RT or whatever, and you and a couple others are defending. You've got the welder so your job is to keep everyone's armor up. Normally what you'd do is weld enough to make sure things are OK but also fight off the skulks when it looks like you need to. If you're the kind of person who likes achievements, though, and there's a "Weld XXXX points of armor in a single game" achievement, then you'll also be thinking "well, they can PROBABLY fight off THIS Skulk without me, so even though I'd NORMALLY stop welding, it won't really hurt to keep on welding this one time..." And even more so with buildings: you're welding the arms lab to keep it alive during a fight, but the aliens keep coming. Should you stop and shoot at them or keep welding? Normally you'd make the "best" decision on its own merits, but achievements add another thing to think about.
Basically, they conflict with what draws a lot of people to NS, which is doing what it takes for your TEAM to win in any given game. It's tough to play NS if your goal is to be the winner, because players don't win: teams win. With achievements, though, players win, and what it takes for a player to "win" (in the form of getting an achievement they want) is only coincidentally going to line up with what it takes for the team to win in any given situation.
NS2 could maybe do what some games like RO2 or DoD:S do for some of their achievements which is just make them into "XX hours played" or "XX people killed." Those can basically never give you a goal that doesn't align with doing whatever it takes for your team to win, as long as the numbers are high enough that you're not tempted to just grind for the kills. Those are kind of boring achievements though.
Kopikat's example of finishing an Onos off with an axe is a good one. That's the sort of cool achievement that everyone wants, but obviously if you incentivize that behavior then sometimes you're going to get people trying to axe an Onos rather than running away or calling for ammo or whatever.
I'm not speaking for UWE here but the things that make me want to play NS2 are Teamplay and having Fun.
Teamplay meaning interacting with your fellow players and doing what is best for the team.
What makes NS2 Fun for me?
Teamplay I just mentioned, it's not about me but what I can do for the team.
For example I may not be the best shot but I can shout warnings, suggest strategies, heal as a gorge or weld as a marine.
That and having a good laugh and chatting in general, readyroom antics, etc.
Achievements would make it about you as an individual.
If I ever feel like stroking the ego I'll just press Tab to see how I'm doing score wise.
That or C to see the map and how the team is doing.
TL;DR: It's about the Team, not You.