Sanity - A Full Conversion Mod

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  • SomnambulistSomnambulist Members Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73051Posts: 83
    We still need any help we can get, but in particular, I know our mapper would love someone who could do some textures for him. Contact me on steam and show me some of your work, I can link you up with the mapper from there. My steam name is RSomnambulist.
    Check out our horror conversion Mod: Sanity
    Lead Programmer: DoubleHex
    Story & Gameplay: Somnambulist
    Mapping: JoeScruff Stoia
    Audio: DerAkademiker
  • SomnambulistSomnambulist Members Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73051Posts: 83
    edited November 2012
    We also would love some props, and any modeling work for weaponry. If you can do modeling/texturing, we can use you.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Check out our horror conversion Mod: Sanity
    Lead Programmer: DoubleHex
    Story & Gameplay: Somnambulist
    Mapping: JoeScruff Stoia
    Audio: DerAkademiker
  • SomnambulistSomnambulist Members Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73051Posts: 83
    edited November 2012
    Alright, we need some solid feedback on this. There is some running debate among the team about what our weapon upgrade system should be, there are two systems we are contemplating and I'd like the communities feedback on which we should work on as we move forward.

    Scavenge System:

    Debris piles would be added to the game where after a certain time/powering the area, a weapon/upgrade would spawn in a pile and could be picked up by any player, both could be dropped to other players if for some reason the player that grabs the item didn't want, or couldn't use them, provided they could hold them (still two weapons max).

    The weaponry would not change from our current loadout.

    Upgrades would include things like shorter/longer barrels for greater dmg/more accuracy, duct tape to secure one component to another(like the lamplight to the rifle), melee attachments.

    This idea is still quite new, so it's not formalized, but the basic idea of scavenging vs our still evolving research system is what we want feedback on.

    Allows for dynamic equipping.


    Current System - Research:

    Weaponry can be individually researched by each player by spending their res that collects as the power level on the map builds.

    After researching a weapon they can spend a much smaller amount of res to acquire the weapon.

    This allows for each team member to outfit themselves to fit a specific role, high dmg(SSPR-Floodlight), medium dmg(Rifle), support(Flashbangs-Laser-Trip sensors).

    Weaponry is researched at spawn currently, but we're planning on switching it, right now the plan is to switch it to the deployable generators that we'll be replacing power nodes with.

    We may add upgrades as well at some point.

    Allows tailored acquisition and load outs.


    I'm not going to give my opinion, I'd just like to hear what system you would prefer, and if there is a specific reason you would prefer one over the other. Then maybe as opinions start rolling in you'll hear me rage about why I prefer one over the other. Thanks for reading.
    Check out our horror conversion Mod: Sanity
    Lead Programmer: DoubleHex
    Story & Gameplay: Somnambulist
    Mapping: JoeScruff Stoia
    Audio: DerAkademiker
  • ChaosXBeingChaosXBeing Members Join Date: 2012-10-12 Member: 162114Posts: 141
    edited November 2012
    My only experience with Sanity is half an hour of play on the survivor side yesterday, so I'm not intricately familiar with all of the existing mechanics on either side. That being the case, I tried to put some thought into this so even if there's a glaring mistake/misconception somewhere along the way it can hopefully still be useful in some way.

    From what I was able to gather, the other team (the darkness? I'm not sure how you refer to them) is able to upgrade to new 'lifeforms' by grabbing relics that spawn around the map. The scavenger idea made me immediately think of this, as its essentially the same. Taking that into consideration then, do you want to inherit NS2s asymmetrical design, is upgrading something you'd like the teams to be similar on, or should whether they're similar or not make no difference whatsoever?

    Scavenging:

    Right away, the idea seems like it'd encourage an individual to take upgrades for themselves rather than thinking of the team. Of course Sanity is a very team-oriented game, so this might not happen too often, but it's still something to think about. Other then that, I like the idea of the survivors having to scavenge for supplies. It does 'feel' better than researching things. Also, being able to 'change' your current weapon into something that better fits your playstyle is always a plus.

    Another thing to consider is that while having an upgrade would make you stronger, it would also mark you as a target. After death, would the upgrade simply be lost, or could it be reused/retrieved somehow?

    Research:

    This system seems to work well enough, again just from the time I played. I'm not sure how I feel about having individual players research upgrades that only they can use. On the one hand, it doesn't seem fair to throw the cost of a team-wide upgrade onto the back of one player, but on the other it feels like you should be able to do something for your team if you wished. Though maybe just having enough firepower to drive off an attacker is enough of a help to the team?

    Maybe there could be both team and player based upgrades, in a similar fashion to the two different ideas? Player-based upgrades would be new weapons, whereas team-wide upgrades could be weapon modifiers, like described in the Scavenge idea? (Shorter barrel, tape, etc.) Or even vice-versa.


    Hybrid:

    After considering both types for a while, I started thinking that maybe a blend of the two systems could work. The survivors could scavenge items in powered areas that they then have to take back to base. At first I thought of the relics already in game, but the subject of whether or not you want the darkness and the survivors to be fighting over the same upgrade resources I'll leave alone for now. Once the scavenged resource is turned in, it unlocks upgrades at wherever the survivors can research/receive upgrades from, maybe awarding the player who retrieved it one free upgrade of that type.

    This idea would allow for a) the darkness to attack a survivor carrying an upgrade to base to keep the survivors from receiving that upgrade, and b) more team play than the scavenger idea alone.
  • peregrinusperegrinus Members Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    Scavenging system

    + Immersive?
    + Encourages territory control

    - Hard to make comeback once you lose areas?
    - Doesn't sound too intuitive. Weapons don't normally spawn like that in games.

    Upgrade system

    + Lots of people like level up systems
    + Easy to understand

    - Too similar to NS2/NS2: Combat?
    - Could create arcade style gameplay, not survival horror/fps
  • SomnambulistSomnambulist Members Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73051Posts: 83
    edited November 2012
    I think both of your second negatives are the main reasons for the consideration of changing the system or keeping it the way it is.

    That the scavenge system will not be intuitive, and the randomness could cause for very odd things to happen, like too many powerful weapons/upgrades too early on OR weak weapons/upgrades later, and if those random things are limited than the system loses much of the immersion because you basically know that whatever spawns will 70%+ be this, or this. I feel like the only way to avoid this would be to have weapons and upgrades that behave differently but just trade dmg for firing rate, ammo for range, or other tradeoff type weapons/upgrades.

    and on the other hand

    That the research system is more arcade than survival horror, that there isn't enough cobbling together like you see in practically every other horror game on the market, dead space, resident evil, etc.

    The more we discuss the more I think on it though...maybe a combination of the two is the way to remedy the cons of both?

    If you haven't seen our general discussion post;
    QUOTE (peregrinus)
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Check out our horror conversion Mod: Sanity
    Lead Programmer: DoubleHex
    Story & Gameplay: Somnambulist
    Mapping: JoeScruff Stoia
    Audio: DerAkademiker
  • peregrinusperegrinus Members Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    edited November 2012
    Some footage from Friday. As you can see I'm still getting to grips with things :P



    The class which has the gorge mouth in the video is The Architecht. It can deplete the humans' sanity, climb walls and a bunch of other stuff I couldn't work out.
  • SomnambulistSomnambulist Members Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73051Posts: 83
    the other ability the architech has is a damage over time attack that spreads evenly to all humans hit.
    Check out our horror conversion Mod: Sanity
    Lead Programmer: DoubleHex
    Story & Gameplay: Somnambulist
    Mapping: JoeScruff Stoia
    Audio: DerAkademiker
  • SomnambulistSomnambulist Members Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73051Posts: 83
    Playtest at 12pm EST this Tuesday located at 'Sanity Playtest.' Come see what we've changed, new win scenario for darkness should be in, tweaked new buy menu for humans, possibly the final lifeform, the Antiquus.
    Check out our horror conversion Mod: Sanity
    Lead Programmer: DoubleHex
    Story & Gameplay: Somnambulist
    Mapping: JoeScruff Stoia
    Audio: DerAkademiker
  • BluSonicBluSonic Members Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169522Posts: 1
    hey that´s cool :) I´m looking forward to playing on tuesday!

    I don´t have a lot of experience in this modding thing, so sorry for this noob question. All I have to do is subscribe to your sanity mod and activate it in game. Then on tuesday I should find the server you were speaking about? Is this all I have to do?

    Good luck in the future developing this mod :)
  • peregrinusperegrinus Members Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    edited November 2012
    QUOTE (BluSonic @ Nov 11 2012, 06:40 PM) »
    hey that´s cool :) I´m looking forward to playing on tuesday!

    I don´t have a lot of experience in this modding thing, so sorry for this noob question. All I have to do is subscribe to your sanity mod and activate it in game. Then on tuesday I should find the server you were speaking about? Is this all I have to do?

    Good luck in the future developing this mod :)


    1. Subscribe in the steam workshop
    2. NS2 main menu -> mods -> activate Sanity -> click restart
    3. NS2 main menu -> Play -> uncheck mod filter -> join the Sanity server
    4. :D
  • CarNagE1CarNagE1 PolandMembers, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16298Posts: 586 Advanced user
    Added news about your mod to our community site. Im looking forward to see this mod fully built. Its realy looking awsome right now.
    imageimage image
    Main Editor of www.naturalselection2.pl
  • peregrinusperegrinus Members Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
  • SomnambulistSomnambulist Members Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73051Posts: 83
    Thank you Carnage, and thanks to everyone who showed up.
    Check out our horror conversion Mod: Sanity
    Lead Programmer: DoubleHex
    Story & Gameplay: Somnambulist
    Mapping: JoeScruff Stoia
    Audio: DerAkademiker
  • peregrinusperegrinus Members Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    edited November 2012
    Highlights from today's playtest

    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • SomnambulistSomnambulist Members Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73051Posts: 83
    Pere is once again the best. So much good footage.
    Check out our horror conversion Mod: Sanity
    Lead Programmer: DoubleHex
    Story & Gameplay: Somnambulist
    Mapping: JoeScruff Stoia
    Audio: DerAkademiker
  • SomnambulistSomnambulist Members Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73051Posts: 83
    So while it may seem like we've been asleep, our programmer and mapper have been working quite hard, and we wanted to show off some of that work in a new video, to let people know what's coming. Big game changing features in the upcoming release, we'll be playtesting these and probably the map you see in the video; Coeus.

    One of the big changes, the upgrades for kills system (lost on death) are difficult to really show off in the video, but a lot of work went into them and they provide interesting upgrades to Darkness units and further highlight the importance of working as a team, and the value of ambushing the Humans.



    I apologize for the length, there was a lot to show, and a lot of upcoming features to talk about.
    Check out our horror conversion Mod: Sanity
    Lead Programmer: DoubleHex
    Story & Gameplay: Somnambulist
    Mapping: JoeScruff Stoia
    Audio: DerAkademiker
  • peregrinusperegrinus Members Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    The map should be great for gameplay. Especially with vents above and below. Sometimes I can't hear what is said because the volume is so low, even with my system volume maxed. Generator system looks really nice, and I like how you've already got that mechanic in to stop them overlapping.

    One criticism: I struggle to see the difference between lit and unlit areas. The lights don't seem to emit any light, apart from a few areas like the one shown around 04:30. Generators should make more of a difference I think. Otherwise there isn't much contrast between playing in powered and unpowered areas. On the mineshaft map you guys edited you really feel wary going from light areas into dark ones because they're so different. If there's less contrast the gameplay experience will be flatter.
  • SomnambulistSomnambulist Members Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73051Posts: 83
    the video is bit darker than the actual gameplay, wmm makes it look even darker for some reason. We also made a tweak to the game so that max light is limited by 30% but that was mainly for ns2 maps that are overlit for our tastes. Sorry about the audio.
    Check out our horror conversion Mod: Sanity
    Lead Programmer: DoubleHex
    Story & Gameplay: Somnambulist
    Mapping: JoeScruff Stoia
    Audio: DerAkademiker
  • bLink`bLink` Members, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146506Posts: 288
    this looks fun! Great work :D

    GTheW6H.jpg
  • SomnambulistSomnambulist Members Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73051Posts: 83
    thank you, we'll be having a playtest showing off a whole dump truck full of new features on sat at 8pm GMT
    Check out our horror conversion Mod: Sanity
    Lead Programmer: DoubleHex
    Story & Gameplay: Somnambulist
    Mapping: JoeScruff Stoia
    Audio: DerAkademiker
  • Greywolf138Greywolf138 Members Join Date: 2012-12-01 Member: 173799Posts: 1
    edited December 2012
    Any chance this mod is in violation of patent for sanity meter from eternal darkness?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_Darkn...y's_Requiem

    Sanity effects
    The game's standout concept, patented by Nintendo,[3] is the "sanity meter", a green bar on screen which is depleted under various conditions, generally when the character is seen by an enemy. It can be restored under various conditions, such as performing a "finishing move" on an enemy. As the bar becomes low, various effects occur, reflecting the character's slackening grip on reality. If the bar remains empty, further damage to sanity decreases the player character's health.

    Further patent legal information here:

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?...p;RS=PN/6935954
  • SomnambulistSomnambulist Members Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73051Posts: 83
    edited December 2012
    I seriously doubt it, but we'll take measures to further distance ourselves from any sort of infringement. I read this entire thing and much of the patent does not coincide with our game mechanics. Even the Sanity Resource, in our mod, is a Resource not a meter. There are a few correlations, hallucinations, and losing control of your character, but these can also be seen in F.E.A.R. and Amnesia, and 100 other games; and much of the mechanics they patented have nothing to do with us, seeing an enemy does nothing to your sanity, and there is no form of preperation that effects the increase or decrease of the Sanity resource. Either way, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

    P.S. I never played this game, didn't even own a gamecube. Most of the gameplay ideas came from my background in psychology, not gaming.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Check out our horror conversion Mod: Sanity
    Lead Programmer: DoubleHex
    Story & Gameplay: Somnambulist
    Mapping: JoeScruff Stoia
    Audio: DerAkademiker
  • peregrinusperegrinus Members Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    edited December 2012
    The patent is very specific which is why so many games have similar systems which are not in violation. I'll be specific so there is no doubt nothing is being ripped off.

    The system they describe has three parts, (a), (b) and ( c).


    QUOTE
    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?...p;RS=PN/6935954

    What is claimed is:

    1. A method of operating a video game including a game character controlled by a player, the method comprising: (a) setting a sanity level of the game character; (b) modifying the sanity level of the game, character during game play according to occurrences in the game, wherein a modifying amount of is determined based on a charater reaction and an amount of character preparation; and © controlling game play according to the sanity level of the game character, game play being controlled at least by varying game effects according to the game charater sanity level.



    Here's how Sanity does not violate the patent (referring to the three parts above).

    a) - Sanity does not have a set sanity level, it has a resource called sanity which is collected and used to attack or buy upgrades. As far as I know there is no upper limit.

    b) - There are no 'character reaction' or 'character preparation' mechanics. Sanity resource is modified only by players choosing to spend it, e.g. on upgrades or attacking enemies, or, e.g., by powering areas to increase sanity generation.

    c) - Again, there is no 'sanity level' so Sanity is not violating this part either.
  • peregrinusperegrinus Members Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    edited December 2012
    From the play test today



    I just wrote a bunch of feedback only to have it wiped by this forum.

    So very quickly...

    ...map could be bigger, larger landmark rooms and helpful lighting to aid navigation, more useful vents for both sides. There are much more ambush spots which is good, and places that let Darkness sneak up.

    spawn rooms should emit potent pulses of light when humans are spawning to frighten Darkness away. Spawning takes too long and the doors are really bugged.

    hard to tell what the objective is and whether the team is making progress. Hard to tell who 'controls' which territory because lit rooms are still dark really. No matter which areas you power the Darkness can still go freely around the map so you don't get a feeling or winning (or losing) until 'Marines Win' or 'Aliens Win' pops up kinda unsatisfactorily.

    Upgrades are very expensive for marines. Somes artifacts spawn in places the Darkness can't reach - at least voids can't.

    In small areas the lamp doesn't help me see anything so I was forced to use trial and error simply to get on a ladder in one place. I think it was in the plant room, I fell down to the bottom and it was a nightmare getting back up. :(

    Enjoy buying generators. Wish they made more of a difference to the visible environment. Overall it's too dark. In fact the whole map was IMO 90% borderline pitch black. So you get used to it and it slowly ceases to be a scary factor.

    Darkness vs Marine ratio should be changed. I think that was stated during the playtest. The map really favours the Darkness.

    The lamp doesn't feel very powerful.

    Need some kind of navigation tool. Even very basic one. It's a lot to expect of people for them to memorise the maps.

    Could be more moving light sources, flashing bulbs, rotating sirens etc.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • RanemanRaneman Members Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69962Posts: 450
    In order to make the game a bit more metal, the Horror should get either flame breath or acid breath. Acid breath might fit in the lore a bit more, just basically you'd have to modify the flame particle to be a bit acidier and less fiery.
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  • RanemanRaneman Members Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69962Posts: 450
    This mod isn't too scary right now- here is why. Darkness is too based on direct engagement. Invisible ###### stalking you and hunting you and picking you off is scary. What's not scary is when some 1000 health monster walks right into your group head-on and left clicks on everything until they die. That isn't survivial horror- it's basically the equal of the "Movie Marines" rule in which it's a lot of players vs. a few really powerful ones.

    Darkness needs to be reworked with abilities that are less about direct combat and more about ###### with people and hunting them.
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  • peregrinusperegrinus Members Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    edited December 2012
    You're right Raneman.

    A cloaking upgrade would be great for the game. Very hard to see in the dark, revealed more by the lamp. And more psychological stuff, like the Horror's marine disguise ability. I'd like the void (fade) to be much more agile but have less health, so I actually have to use some strategy in battles.

    There could be a sound attack...like a banshee.

    For the Darkness the main thing now is running around hunting generators rather than marines. Generators are great for more varied gameplay and creativity on the marine side. Someone suggested letting Darkness attack generators once, triggering a sort of slow decay which needs marines to step in and save the generator. Something like that would be a big improvement.

    A problem with generators is that they don't give off much light, so you need a lot to light a map. For the Darkness, that means a lot of static objects they have to stare and and click to death.

    There's also too much res at the moment. I don't remember seeing any hallucinations in today's test.

    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • RanemanRaneman Members Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69962Posts: 450
    You know what's really scary? Psychic monsters.

    You know what I'm working on at the moment? A telekinesis mod for gorge. Perhaps it could be of use to the mod.
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  • peregrinusperegrinus Members Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    QUOTE (Raneman @ Dec 3 2012, 02:06 AM) »
    You know what's really scary? Psychic monsters.

    You know what I'm working on at the moment? A telekinesis mod for gorge. Perhaps it could be of use to the mod.


    What will your gorge move? Can't think of any moveable objects in ns2 maps.

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