Ns2_metal

quazilinquazilin Members, Contributor, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9880Posts: 383 Fully active user
edited December 2011 in Mapping
As cold as metal.
Hi,
Currently learning some spark editing and wanted to start this topic for possible ns2 version of metal.
Any suggestions are very welcome and motivating of course.

Currently planning the layout how it would change from ns1 and remaking some areas that would be familiar from the old days.
Anything you would like to see, changed or removed etc. Say the words and I will try to finish the map hopefully next year...(yea right).

I will post some screenshots along the way, and have fun time testing the NS2 when possible.

Happy holidays.
-quazilin
«134

Comments

  • fmponefmpone Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-07-05 Member: 108086Posts: 928
    Hallelujah! This is encouraging news from such a talented, veteran mapper. My best wishes. Hopefully I can get sone of my Spark tutorials up to help you along in any way I can with the transition.

    Happy holidays to you.
  • killer monkeykiller monkey Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Posts: 574 Advanced user
    Are you not the guy that made the original ns_metal?
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, SpainMembers, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (killer monkey @ Dec 22 2011, 12:00 AM) »
    Are you not the guy that made the original ns_metal?

    Yes, he is. It's even in his forum signature. And the website link also mentions it.
  • SewlekSewlek The programmer previously known as Schimmel Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Posts: 2,341 Advanced user
    it was an awesome ns1 map! please go on!!
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator & Generalist, NS2 PersonSuper Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Posts: 3,011 admin
    Was deffo one of my fav NS1 maps. As you can see from FMPone's Veil, NS1 maps can make the transition really well :)

    If NS2 fails, follow my Nuke From Orbit Guide.

    NS2 Discord: https://discord.gg/0TKQwZWu7JEPeAgW

    Subnautica Discord: https://discord.gg/subnautica

  • konatakonata Members Join Date: 2011-08-24 Member: 118296Posts: 862
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (Obraxis @ Dec 22 2011, 01:36 AM) »
    Was deffo one of my fav NS1 maps. As you can see from FMPone's Veil, NS1 maps can make the transition really well :)


    It looks nothing like the original Veil and it's not been properly played yet as it's not fully built and we don't have full NS2 gameplay, but we can hope.

    I think the theme of metal suits the current art assets very well.
    ~ Konata

    À tellement bien mentir, on finit par se croire
  • _Thresh__Thresh_ Members Join Date: 2008-01-11 Member: 63385Posts: 380
    Another map to look forward too.

    Thanks quazilin
  • BarerRudeROCBarerRudeROC Members Join Date: 2010-10-01 Member: 74264Posts: 256
  • Trainee.gerTrainee.ger Members Join Date: 2011-05-22 Member: 100097Posts: 188
    edited December 2011
    im looking forward to your first freakin awesome screenshots :)


    loved ns_metal!
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Commie SpyCommie Spy Members Join Date: 2009-07-02 Member: 68008Posts: 92
    Metal is a great map. Some of my favorite games were played on that map.

    Late game marine/mine boost via Storage D pg rush?

    Memories anyone???
    QUOTE (Ryo-Ohki @ Aug 1 2010, 01:20 AM) »
    Now, the commander can, and infact only can, build his own structures. Marines can now upgrade their own weapons. The result is that in effect, the Commander and the Marines are now playing two seperate games. Synergy has been replaced with disunity. If Commanders don't need their Marines as much, they won't communicate with them as much, and vice versa.
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,904 Advanced user
    Great news, definitly following this one!

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • JirikiJiriki retired ns1 player Members, NS1 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Join Date: 2003-01-04 Member: 11780Posts: 614 Advanced user
    Thanks for the original quazilin! Although not my personal favourite, it was a good competitive map. I'll use veil as a counter-example of a good, but overplayed map that has tactical versatility (well at least used to) and competition. So here is some criticism for metal and ideas to improve upon:

    - Storage D is a horrible node. You couldn't pressure surf-side nodes properly, since aliens starting with surface and capping Storage D and Heating together can buy too much time. I think marines shouldn't take too much time moving from node A to B with the pressure team. Not to mention any 4-node tactics where there would be enough time to rush base twice. However if the commander counters this and cuts off the aliens from north side, he can race the upgrade race, but I think this is just going around the problem, not solving it as it effectively decrease the amount of tactics available. The door and ladders are quite annoying too.

    - Too many camping spots. Some were very clever, but when you have too many of them, it becomes like cloak, highly annoying. I like simplicity in camping spots, but complexity in aesthetics. More veilish, less shiva'ish. Veil has many camping spots that are far from obvious with a single look. A single marine can fight against one or two skulks on capper side in veil, but in metal its much harder because of ambush spots that slow the game down.

    - I think the layout is pretty good but I'd rework the surface-storaged-heating area. I some ways I think its a bit too binary in nature. Think if veil had no west junction access to system, it would be much more decisive and in some sense predictable what will happen tacticwise. I'm not saying connecting heating room to storage will solve this, maybe it would be a good idea to work out the entire surface-side of the map. Try out different ideas. You might also consider connecting that lift-area and supply way to emulate c12-dome kind of connection.

    - It would be nice if fading around the map wouldn't get you stuck too much. I dislike maps like shiva where the architecture is so complicated you cannot get good speed but have to combat with the map all the time. In this regard MS, Flight Control, Power Banks, Mineral, Sector F, Cooling, Supply way are fine but not the places with rapid elevation changes not so. When fades can move around the map without stopping, it becomes a better flow, and a battle between fades and jetpacks - not fades and map.

    - Metal has a strange romance with places that are hard to get to but easy to defend. They're kind of binary in nature. Getting into surface is hard if aliens are prepared, but when you get there, it becomes much easier to push. If you contrast this to veil, places are much more like same.

    - Strategywise this map is pretty good. PGs work, MT works, ARMS works etc. but I find late pressure no nodes highly difficult as solo marines can't achieve much whether its capping or pressuring. This limits the amount of tactics available. In veil a single marine has relatively small success probability spread compared to other maps which means well placed marines can be used by a smart commander.

    - I haven't checked the statistics but even in veil, pickup-game stats give about 1:3 odds for marines which isn't quite shabby for "marine-biased map". My intuition would this number quite close to 1:5 or 1:6 in metal.

    - I think aliens should have less vents so marines can block off their access, especially to base more easily. Some vents, marine-boostable could provide mc placement like in tanith, veil and orbital.

    Of course so many things will change with NS2, but I think some of these points will remain valid, and it has something to do with graph-theoretic features of NS map layouts. I don't want another veil but there're some features that can be explained in vector graphs that are common factor for good maps. Have certain amount of vertices between adjacent nodes is one such condition.
    ENSL Head Admin 2006-2012
  • nUfl0wnUfl0w Members Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42412Posts: 235
    ^this

    I also loved metal! The Storage D issue also was the first thing for me to come to my mind. Also the elevator was kind of useless. Maybe you can replace this part with something more useful :)

    You deserved a big thanks upfront for rebuilding metal. Cant wait to see the first screens! :)
    cheers - Dolce & Lebowski
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature GermanyMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Posts: 1,729 Advanced user
    Cool, can't wait for your remake!



  • quazilinquazilin Members, Contributor, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9880Posts: 383 Fully active user
    Some early WIP screen of heating room... Starting to understand the spark editor bit better.

    image

  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,904 Advanced user
    What a christmas present!
    Looks good as a start, but you need more work on the lighting, just to name one thing.
    But it's WIP, so keep on cranking :D

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • vizioNzvizioNz InversionNS2.com Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24595Posts: 661
    QUOTE (Jiriki @ Dec 22 2011, 02:10 AM) »
    Thanks for the original quazilin! Although not my personal favourite, it was a good competitive map. I'll use veil as a counter-example of a good, but overplayed map that has tactical versatility (well at least used to) and competition. So here is some criticism for metal and ideas to improve upon:

    - Storage D is a horrible node. You couldn't pressure surf-side nodes properly, since aliens starting with surface and capping Storage D and Heating together can buy too much time. I think marines shouldn't take too much time moving from node A to B with the pressure team. Not to mention any 4-node tactics where there would be enough time to rush base twice. However if the commander counters this and cuts off the aliens from north side, he can race the upgrade race, but I think this is just going around the problem, not solving it as it effectively decrease the amount of tactics available. The door and ladders are quite annoying too.

    - Too many camping spots. Some were very clever, but when you have too many of them, it becomes like cloak, highly annoying. I like simplicity in camping spots, but complexity in aesthetics. More veilish, less shiva'ish. Veil has many camping spots that are far from obvious with a single look. A single marine can fight against one or two skulks on capper side in veil, but in metal its much harder because of ambush spots that slow the game down.

    - I think the layout is pretty good but I'd rework the surface-storaged-heating area. I some ways I think its a bit too binary in nature. Think if veil had no west junction access to system, it would be much more decisive and in some sense predictable what will happen tacticwise. I'm not saying connecting heating room to storage will solve this, maybe it would be a good idea to work out the entire surface-side of the map. Try out different ideas. You might also consider connecting that lift-area and supply way to emulate c12-dome kind of connection.

    - It would be nice if fading around the map wouldn't get you stuck too much. I dislike maps like shiva where the architecture is so complicated you cannot get good speed but have to combat with the map all the time. In this regard MS, Flight Control, Power Banks, Mineral, Sector F, Cooling, Supply way are fine but not the places with rapid elevation changes not so. When fades can move around the map without stopping, it becomes a better flow, and a battle between fades and jetpacks - not fades and map.

    - Metal has a strange romance with places that are hard to get to but easy to defend. They're kind of binary in nature. Getting into surface is hard if aliens are prepared, but when you get there, it becomes much easier to push. If you contrast this to veil, places are much more like same.

    - Strategywise this map is pretty good. PGs work, MT works, ARMS works etc. but I find late pressure no nodes highly difficult as solo marines can't achieve much whether its capping or pressuring. This limits the amount of tactics available. In veil a single marine has relatively small success probability spread compared to other maps which means well placed marines can be used by a smart commander.

    - I haven't checked the statistics but even in veil, pickup-game stats give about 1:3 odds for marines which isn't quite shabby for "marine-biased map". My intuition would this number quite close to 1:5 or 1:6 in metal.

    - I think aliens should have less vents so marines can block off their access, especially to base more easily. Some vents, marine-boostable could provide mc placement like in tanith, veil and orbital.

    Of course so many things will change with NS2, but I think some of these points will remain valid, and it has something to do with graph-theoretic features of NS map layouts. I don't want another veil but there're some features that can be explained in vector graphs that are common factor for good maps. Have certain amount of vertices between adjacent nodes is one such condition.


    Great post Jiriki, I sure hope NS2 metal captures the same feeling as the original. Good luck quazilin!
  • LV426-ColonistLV426-Colonist Space Jockey Members, Constellation Join Date: 2011-08-05 Member: 114269Posts: 678 Fully active user
    ns2_metal,

    droool.
    LV426-Colonist
  • quazilinquazilin Members, Contributor, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9880Posts: 383 Fully active user
    Some little progress shots.

    image

    image

    image
  • Heroman117Heroman117 Members Join Date: 2010-07-28 Member: 73268Posts: 391
    edited January 2012
    Looks like a great first start!

    Seems like your getting a good hang on the new Spark editor. It took me a while, being a long-time source mapper, to fully adjust.

    Just because i'm curious, are you going to be making the map as true to the original map as possible, or are you going to take a few artistic liberties such as how fmpone has done with Ns2_veil?

    I'd be fine with it either way as long as the map is fun to play on, but it be interesting to see what you could pull of taking advantage of Spark's lighting system.
    image
  • quazilinquazilin Members, Contributor, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9880Posts: 383 Fully active user
    Yeah It's goint to be bit updated version of course, not sure if I can pull out so nice details as fmpone or psyk0 but we shall see. =)
  • LV426-ColonistLV426-Colonist Space Jockey Members, Constellation Join Date: 2011-08-05 Member: 114269Posts: 678 Fully active user
    edited January 2012
    Edit: Cheese, yum...
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    LV426-Colonist
  • killer monkeykiller monkey Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Posts: 574 Advanced user
    WAIT JUST A SECOND, in the ready room is that...THE CHEESE!?
  • killer monkeykiller monkey Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Posts: 574 Advanced user
    Any updates to share with us?

    Best of luck!
  • quazilinquazilin Members, Contributor, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9880Posts: 383 Fully active user
    Working on surface access room but not really much to show yet.
  • persoperso Members, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2003-02-19 Member: 13740Posts: 407
    Cool! Just out of curiosity, are you going to make the rooms in some specific order? Like the order you created them in the original ns1 map? =) Make sure you document the mapping process btw. ;)
  • quazilinquazilin Members, Contributor, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9880Posts: 383 Fully active user
    Some wip shots... Surface Access room starts to have some bones up.
    image


    and update to heating room.
    image

    Not too much detail yet, ill try to get the layout up faster.
  • FroztyFrozty SWEDENMembers Join Date: 2012-01-22 Member: 141596Posts: 164 Advanced user
    QUOTE (quazilin @ Jan 23 2012, 11:06 AM) »
    Some wip shots... Surface Access room starts to have some bones up.
    image


    and update to heating room.
    image

    Not too much detail yet, ill try to get the layout up faster.


    Looks awesome :)
    Anyone know if they can use "elevators" in Ns2?
    One of my favorit maps from Ns1 ( public ) was the one were marines had a BIG elevator in main base.
    4zSsY3w.png
  • KurrineKurrine Members Join Date: 2010-07-03 Member: 72235Posts: 478
    No Functioning elevators right now, it'll be along somewhere down the line in development likely. If not officially, custom done.
    NS2 is a re-imagining, it'll likely never be the sequel some were looking for.

    NS2c, The NS2 you may be looking for; sticking closer to it's roots.

    Thank you, modding community.

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  • fmponefmpone Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-07-05 Member: 108086Posts: 928
    Looking cool, Quaz.

    As for elevators, I was told no chance before 1.0, it's not on the devs' radar at all.
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