Unhappy with 178 balance
Squidget
Join Date: 2003-06-13 Member: 17334Members
Join Date: 2003-06-13 Member: 17334Members
Yes, I know it's a beta.
But the game seems so seriously broken, after playing something like 18 games today. Score: 17-1*, aliens. In all but 2 of those, it wasn't even close. I played on all three maps, I played with good and bad teams, I played on both sides. If the sides were even close to even in numbers, it was a walkover**.
*That 1 victory? Every alien player but me left.
**walkover defined as: aliens pinned marines in base for an hour, until aliens won, people gave up, or admins reset the map.
Yes, yes: learn to play noob, adapt, etc. But NO one I saw had an answer in any game I played, except "be x2 good as the other guys." That is not balance.
Fades are simply murder. I played one game in summit where marines didn't get a kill vs. aliens for over 15 minutes. Not exaggerating, it was literally 15 minutes. Fades just hit n run, hit n run, over and over. I had a 15 kill streak as Fade in one game, and I'm NOT that good.
Most times, except on summit, marines never expanded much outside their base. It was all pure turtle sentry fest, because no other tactic worked against fade. I've never seen so many turrets, game after game. It's nuts.
So... am I, and every player in every game I played, missing something? Is there way way for marines to win in an even match? If you know it, please let me know. Because, as far as gameplay is concerned, this patch was a HUGE step back for me.
But the game seems so seriously broken, after playing something like 18 games today. Score: 17-1*, aliens. In all but 2 of those, it wasn't even close. I played on all three maps, I played with good and bad teams, I played on both sides. If the sides were even close to even in numbers, it was a walkover**.
*That 1 victory? Every alien player but me left.
**walkover defined as: aliens pinned marines in base for an hour, until aliens won, people gave up, or admins reset the map.
Yes, yes: learn to play noob, adapt, etc. But NO one I saw had an answer in any game I played, except "be x2 good as the other guys." That is not balance.
Fades are simply murder. I played one game in summit where marines didn't get a kill vs. aliens for over 15 minutes. Not exaggerating, it was literally 15 minutes. Fades just hit n run, hit n run, over and over. I had a 15 kill streak as Fade in one game, and I'm NOT that good.
Most times, except on summit, marines never expanded much outside their base. It was all pure turtle sentry fest, because no other tactic worked against fade. I've never seen so many turrets, game after game. It's nuts.
So... am I, and every player in every game I played, missing something? Is there way way for marines to win in an even match? If you know it, please let me know. Because, as far as gameplay is concerned, this patch was a HUGE step back for me.
Comments
the blink is awesome. but somehow OP :/ make the fade A LOOOOOT easier to kill (armor) ..!
because marines cant shoot at a blinking fade they just see fades apear everywhere slashing down marines and disapearing again. its like the old days where noclippers would pop out of the ground like sharks in css... oh well you COUULD kill them but WTF
i also noticed skulks can commando-bite now -.-
and the new alienclass ( GODGORGE ) isn't killable !!!! selfheal is OP ! i wasted all magazines of assault rifle for that GG and he had 100%hp shortly after that.
Of course everything is made more difficult, at least for me, because of really low fps/bad quality servers and that makes killing stuff like skulks and lerks a massive chore.
edit: also not sure if I was playing before or after a bottle of wine with friends when I should have been asleep. Lack of memory suggests after and nullifies above post...
I played a game where marines where turtling for a loooong time. Aliens just kept hit'n run their base but all of sudden all the rines marches out of base with an ARC (That's what its called right?)... Aliens where to slow to react and then rines had a second base.
Didn't stay for the whole game but if the rines kept it up they could've won. No idea how it ended though ;D
Its almost impossible to land shots when your getting a good steady 20-30 fps that suddenly plunge down to 5-10fps whenever you see an enemy,and on top of that it seems that the servers are so bogged down that they don't even register hits if you land them.
It is impossible to balance at the moment because the lag and lack of rego making it an almost unbearable playing experience.
Apart from that i found that the easiest way to kill the fades is to have 2 sg and 1 ft, the flamers remove the energy and the sgs just shoot the now useless fade.
The game used to be marines winning every round with insta kill flamethrowers unless aliens rushed early. Then the devs reduced flamethrowers power and reduced the blinding effect so the flamethrower is no longer god like. And now in the new patch Fade's are more powerful, and at the same time res flow has changed and Marine's are slower to get the stuff they need to counter aliens. This is how game development is supposed to work. With a 1 or 2 days of internal testing with small number of testers they cannot predict every problem.
Obviously lagg and performance issues are continuing to hamper our ability to test the game - I don't know how or when the devs will fix those issues.
- Fade disappears when its blinking making aiming more harder than in NS1
- Fades have melee and armor upgrades that weren't there before
- Server tickrate brings reg down
- Marines don't have late game tech like Jetpacks.
The late game problem is partially because theres not all chambers and onos in the game for aliens. Since the commander does not use carbon for medpacks and ammo or weapons, he easily stockpiles a million res and can afford such a turret spam. I mean after the commander gets all the upgrades, what is he going to use his res for?
But balance problems are expectable at this point, there's no need to be angry about them.
Marine res flow does seem a little slow, but I'm curious how things will play out once people have time to adjust.
a: make his health and armor lower
b: make the activation energy cost of blink higher
c: make blink have a cooldown so they cant spam it
To fix the marines either
a: increase the personal res production of all marines
b: lower the res cost of some of the weapons
c: give the marines the ability to increase personal res production on extractor
Its also to easy for the aliens to upgrade armor and weapons, i would suggest that at least t3 should only be aquirable through having two hives.
That is all
Cheers,
Agnarak
The problem is people have forgotten how to play marines!
You can no longer rambo as marines since aliens can actually land hits now...
Marines must work as units just like they did in NS1 you have to check blind spots cover each others backs not block line of fire etc etc...
With the introduction of phase gates marines need to capitalise on this..
In short start playing marines properly now otherwise your going to get owned.
Flamethrowers will prevent it for attacking as quick and also blinking, the shotgun does the damage on it. You can EASILY kill a fade if you have 2 people WORKING TOGETHER.
The problem lies solely within hydra spam and corresponding fps drops which mostly affect shooters.
Fix the performance, reg and stuff and we'll talk again.
The problem lies solely within hydra spam and corresponding fps drops which mostly affect shooters.
Fix the performance, reg and stuff and we'll talk again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played a game with 20+ sentries and a bajillion hydras and the server (and my FPS) were fine.
Aliens have now awesome Fade-blinking the "Godgorge" with selfhealability and due the fact that Aliens are way more durable then marines it strengthens them even more because of RFK. Besides that the aliens have still the ability to drop buildings via drifter (on the infestation) wherever they want.
The Marines on the other hand lost the MAC at startup (which was essential for 3vs3 games or less), which also means the commander has to order a marine around to build buildings (at least at the early game. But that is the most importand part for building stuff, isn't it?). So there is one person less left for fighting.
Also because of the fact that marines have the durability of a stormtrooper (means: they die a lot - more often then aliens as I mentioned earlier) they have really trouble to gather enough res for a better weapon.
Besides that the shotgun was nerfed from 20 to 18 damage per pellet, which makes it even harder to kill a fade.
Don't get me wrong, I like the new features like fade blink, ARC, graphic improovement, skulk bite recognition and so on.
(however I don't like RFK! but I spare you the rant here)
But the game isn't balanced anymore.
<b>Summary</b>
Aliens are to strong now because:
-- RFK = more Res for aliens and less for marines because Marines die more usually
-- Gorge is nearly immortal because of selfhealing ability
-- MAC is missing in earlygame (which was importand for 3v3 games or less)
-- Shotgun was nerfed while fade was strengthened
-- Fade nearly invulnerable because of blink-spam (exept if a shotgun- and a flamer-marine are working together - given they can afford those weapons)
the blink is awesome. but somehow OP :/ make the fade A LOOOOOT easier to kill (armor) ..!
because marines cant shoot at a blinking fade they just see fades apear everywhere slashing down marines and disapearing again. its like the old days where noclippers would pop out of the ground like sharks in css... oh well you COUULD kill them but WTF
i also noticed skulks can commando-bite now -.-
and the new alienclass ( GODGORGE ) isn't killable !!!! selfheal is OP ! i wasted all magazines of assault rifle for that GG and he had 100%hp shortly after that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly the main reason I stopped playing NS1, Fades became insanely powerful, taking on entire marine teams alone, even WITH team work and shotguns, it was ridiculous and never got resolved. I can't for the life of me understand the balance of allowing one unit to completely dominate the entire game, and it seems the pattern is returning.
you can kill fades as you have in ns1, travel in GROUPS. And yes it works, I've had many games where we cornered fades, and used one person as bait.
Be smart, don't just blindly go alone somewhere, and die than start complaining about you can't solo the fade.
don't be a hero, marines are based on teamwork, one marine dying for the team doesn't matter so long the team is what survives.
its amazing though fade movement is still actually limited/slow and people already ready to scream nerf about the current blink.
compared to how blink used to work, this current version is simply amazingly great! While aliens still lack skill based movement, and when its added I wonder how many would complain? I already had to read in other topic someone saying if fade gotten air control (ability to strafe) he will be overpowered... I really question how people play or rather if they're spoiled by other bad games.
The biggest problem I want to address right now is stalemates (with marines holed up on their base). I might put in Gorge bile bomb again but there are other ways to solve it too.
Flamethrowers will prevent it for attacking as quick and also blinking, the shotgun does the damage on it. You can EASILY kill a fade if you have 2 people WORKING TOGETHER.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No theorycrafting here. Considering I saw fades decimate groups of marines with all mixes of weapons, I disagree totally. There's no EASILY about it.
And even if that was true, it's still not balanced. 2-1 is not balance. It's not balance for spawns, it's not balance for res spent. Due to absolute map control aliens have now, there are more Fades than flamethrowers.
Here's one battled I observed in game: Late game, marines had turtled, obviously marshalling res. They all had shotties, GLs, and flamers. Marines stuck together, 5 or 6 of them, and tried to assault directly from Marine start into Gully South. 6 guys, all tight up, all moving together. 2 Fades, a Lerk, and a Gorge took them apart. Infestation meant everyone saw them coming, Lerks chewed up the cluster with gas as they moved, marine comm apparently ran out of res for medkits, Fade hit and runs took them apart. Aliens lost the lerk and gorge, the entire marine side was wiped out, Hive was damaged but survived. Result: crushing defeat for Marines.
Marines played at least as well as aliens did. Better, really, if you count the coordination required. But they got whipped.
The only reasonable way I can see for marines to win would be to keep Aliens on a single hive. Once two hives are up, aliens just infest, crag, and hydra the whole board. Which translates to win early, or not at all.
Be smart, don't just blindly go alone somewhere, and die than start complaining about you can't solo the fade.
don't be a hero, marines are based on teamwork, one marine dying for the team doesn't matter so long the team is what survives.
its amazing though fade movement is still actually limited/slow and people already ready to scream nerf about the current blink.
compared to how blink used to work, this current version is simply amazingly great! While aliens still lack skill based movement, and when its added I wonder how many would complain? I already had to read in other topic someone saying if fade gotten air control (ability to strafe) he will be overpowered... I really question how people play or rather if they're spoiled by other bad games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't work if the fades also work in groups.
Saying that you need 3 marines to kill 1 fade is hardly balanced, fades are hideously OP at the moment, the only reason they need to die is because they're careless, a cautious fade is effectively immortal and can still get kills or destroy structures very easily.
I suck as fade, and yet I can easily dominate the marines with it, because it has tonnes of health, does tonnes of damage on each hit, and can basically back out of any fight whenever it wants to.
Essentially I get between 5 and 10 seconds to try and hit a marine three times, then I go back to the hive, then I get another 5-10 seconds, with no res cost or anything, just by virtue of being a fade.
This is overpowered.
Saying that you need 3 marines to kill 1 fade is hardly balanced, fades are hideously OP at the moment, the only reason they need to die is because they're careless, a cautious fade is effectively immortal and can still get kills or destroy structures very easily.
I suck as fade, and yet I can easily dominate the marines with it, because it has tonnes of health, does tonnes of damage on each hit, and can basically back out of any fight whenever it wants to.
Essentially I get between 5 and 10 seconds to try and hit a marine three times, then I go back to the hive, then I get another 5-10 seconds, with no res cost or anything, just by virtue of being a fade.
This is overpowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if aliens get enough res to have GROUP of fades, marines must not be something right.
the reason others, or you can easily kill marines now with the fade usually means this
1.fade actually starting to be the class while more work is needed
2.group of marines needed to fight the fade
I can speak from experience, and I've killed my share of fades by simply staying with the group.
If you have one person with a flamethrower in the group, it would actually make things quicker.
The main objectives are, not to go alone and focus on objectives, wondering marines tend to die easily - which helps aliens get the res they need. (feeding aliens with res)
as I said be smart when playing.
I'd hold off until we see what the onos is capable of. if marines bunker down early in the game, that only hinders them. it's been when they turtle late game that they can be a threat, which is where the onos will come into play.
And like I said, the only reason you need to die as a fade is carelessness, I can happily waltz into a base with two sentries and two players, kill both the players and the sentries, and waltz back out to heal, then come back again later. Even if I don't manage to do it on the first go it doesn't matter, I can get out easily and come back a few seconds later, and that's just on my own.
Saying that having an overpowering numerical advantage over the enemy is the only way to win in a game where you have the same number of players on each team <i>has a fairly obvious and major flaw in it.</i>
The only thing a flamethrower does to the fade is force it to retreat faster, it does negligible damage. At best it slows down the fade because it can't get as many hits in before retreating, but it can still do so indefinitely and completely stalemate between two and three marines on its own.
Like what? Unlike NS1, in NS2 aliens don't have to spend their personal res for the team, so EVERYONE can afford to go fade if they want to. There's nothing preventing that, even if the aliens only have 1 or 2 res nodes the whole game.
those are problems which need to be addressed. I just don't agree we should cripple the class because of other broken parts of the game.
the fade starting to finally feel as he should be, more work is needed like air control said to be added. Also better momentum for his movement is needed.