Natural Selection 2 News Update - NS2 Build 168 released
Flayra
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Comments
Agree, when sitting still on the ceiling, the tilt can change orientation constantly just by looking around. It's very disorienting sometimes on complex geometry. It might work fine if all you had were cubical rooms, but with so much extra stuff, it doesn't really work well. The standard camera is a better option, in my opinion. Love the new sticky wall walking, but it can make it very difficult to make it in vents now--the vent in server room is extremely difficult to enter now.
Server room and alien expansion changes are great. Aliens can now get a second harvester up easily, which is great.
As I said in another thread, the sound bugs are back with this build. Not all sounds go away, but many sounds do (important sounds like skulk bite, etc).
1.sound problems are back, sound loops and goes in out a lot especially when too many sounds are being played at the same time
2.shotgun damage is still a problem, nothing changed here
3.flamethrower still isn't fixed
4.skulk view has to be changed, really not good change!
5.fade blink still a problem, really needs improvements (reducing it to one click would greatly help)
6. mac stacking is still an issue, also can be hidden inside walls or under objects
medpack restoring armor needs to be removed, its seriously overpowering. I've had games where meds were spammed on single marine who kept soloing the whole alien team pretty much with single shotgun. the only reason he died, is because he had to reload, but skulks damage wasn't doing anything to him since medpacks kept restoring his health AND armor.
medpack spam restoring armor only further makes shotguns and flamethrowers more overpowering since it makes single person solo everything pretty much.
<b>Wall-walking is vastly improved</b>! You can finally move around without much fear of falling. The view-tilt is a good step forward (it's an effective indicator at the very lesat), but <b>agility on walls is still a concern for me</b> (as it was in NS1).
To illustrate: While wall-walking at an angle that causes the view-tilt and attempt to strafe, if your view is at anything less than a 90º angle from the wall you are trying to strafe, you end up strafing against that wall instead of along the wall, which slows you down considerably. This severely restricts your maneuverability on walls.
Barring the "AvP" solution, <b>there should still be a way to improve this</b>. Try basing movement-direction off of the world models orientation instead of the player-view orientation, so that you're controls move you along the plane you're on (this will have the unfortunate side-affect of inverting A & Ds movement controls when you're on a ceiling, so that'll need to be fixed). Since the world models' orientation is tied to the player's view in (I believe) EVERY other case except for Skulks walking on walls. This could be a non-invasive, non-nauseating compromise.
Also:
I'm noticing you <b>can't climb vertically in some very small vents</b>. It tries to to move up the wall, then shortly loses all traction and falls. The only way to get up these vents is to leap and then climb. This makes it feel like wall-walking operates differently now, dependent on whether you're moving up/down a wall, wherein you have little traction and are actually struggling against the forces of gravity, or across a wall, wherein it feels more akin to Mirror's Edge's wall-running (but never loses traction). I doubt this is what you were going for, but it is still an interesting mechanic.
I'm conflicted because I also love how much of a personal touch is conveyed by the longer, more rambling videos. It is awesome to feel a deeper connection with the team who creates the product, but it is also nice to have patch-note-style information quickly and efficiently conveyed in a video like this one. The video format lends a deeper understanding of the patch changes, and jumping from one point to the next in a timely fashion like this makes the video seem like a better way to absorb the patch notes than deciphering them from text.
I like the new skulk wall walking as it's easier to move across, but suction is a little too strong. When I was trying to go off a container to bite a marine i instead continued across the side of it. Maybe if you made it only stick as much when the skulk is walking it would be fine.
I like the new changes to tram. In a earlier game we set up a small base in alien expansion with a portable power node for the rt and armory.
While not being as unbalanced as when marines could build a command station in alien expansion, we were still able to make quick work of their main hive.
Overall a nice patch, my fps went down I believe but I'm sure the coming optimizations will fix that.
1.sound problems are back, sound loops and goes in out a lot especially when too many sounds are being played at the same time
2.shotgun damage is still a problem, nothing changed here
3.flamethrower still isn't fixed
4.skulk view has to be changed, really not good change!
5.fade blink still a problem, really needs improvements (reducing it to one click would greatly help)
6. mac stacking is still an issue, also can be hidden inside walls or under objects
medpack restoring armor needs to be removed, its seriously overpowering. I've had games where meds were spammed on single marine who kept soloing the whole alien team pretty much with single shotgun. the only reason he died, is because he had to reload, but skulks damage wasn't doing anything to him since medpacks kept restoring his health AND armor.
medpack spam restoring armor only further makes shotguns and flamethrowers more overpowering since it makes single person solo everything pretty much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shotguns are OP IMO
Also agree with point 6 on MAC
Lastly med restoring armor OP too
In Skirms/Clanmatches level
Taking reference to NS1, in a case where marines could get SG normally it means shulks are useless. At pro levels 1 SG can easily take out 2 shulks with lv 0 (2 bites) armor. In 6 v 6 - that means 3 rines can raid a hive and 2 are still free. Of course SG cost team resource and if they died it will a set back if no damage (example the other 2 marines could've locked down or destroyed a hive).
NS2: SG are cheap and doesn't set back the team even if u die coupled with the 3 bites at lv 0 armour and med pack restoring armour.
IMO SG rush shld be able to end the game 7/10 times if the gunners were good shooters.
I'm unsure if UWE realises that in the NS1 clan matches (talking about TOP players: best in countries vs best in countries or best 2 teams within 1 country) --- Aliens is a must win (as it is extremely hard to win as marines) Typically they keep playing winning aliens losing marines until marines made some excellant play or alien team screw up.
This was due to 6v6 having faster resources- for aliens (than a pub game typically 8v8 or 10v10) and that alien are slower spawners thus there being an optimum number of aliens - more isn't better. And shulk kills grants resources. The NS1 alien wins revolved around a pro fade and the speed of which he fades (through killing LMG non SG marines)
In the clanmatch level (which is the level i consider gameplay, public games are pointless since people miss shots and are uncoordinated)
NS2 is actually AT NS1 skirm level current w/o tier 3 gear. Consider this - in 90% of NS1 clanmatches (again referring to only the best players) - Marine don't achieve tier 3 - IE Heavy armour and Jetpack or HMG. In the games that they do get T3 is because things like the 1st Fade died within 1min of fading thus aliens are screwed and marines should go on to win the game, but decided to lock down the hives and advance tier 3 etc. not because they needed t3 or used t3 to changed to the game.
Now consider NS2: where tram is the only reference point for a "real map" - marines can easily take expansion, thus the only problem is resource, pushing downwards (double RT room) and sideways (those single extractors at the side of the map) to capture extractors.
It a normal game they shld get +- 3 RT. Teching up and just survive the alien slaughter --- DI has made alien much slower now thus it is even easier to wait it out. Once flamers are up they end the game. Unlike NS1 where the fade will come in and ruin the party, NS2 fades cant do that. Why? Sprint, its simple, fade rush A, A sprints, B fires, Fade changes to B, B sprints, A fires. Combine that with a single sentry + healing armory + med pack healing armor. Its hard to down marine start which (6v6 clanmatch simulation in my mind) where minus 1 roamer. 4 marines in base defending - to counter killing of extractors - change the roamer to camper ratio.
NS theory - In NS 1 there are the chasers and hunters, Marines were chasers - stop second hive - stop alien from RTing - they basically chased after alien hoping to slow them down. While aliens were hunters trying to kill marines to gain resources to fade. Marines had range + 9 bullet KO recoiless weapon. Personally I don't think its very bad odds.
Right now in NS2 I believe alien are the chasers, they aim to stop marine second hive - stop marine RTing - stop marine from teching. Yep aliens are the chasers but they have to fight against 3HKO rines + Med(armor restoring) + healing armory + MACs (no need to crowd around to build like in the past which made the situation more dangerous and was much slower) + range + when getting close was good the have SG + useless fade + slow expansion (since DI) + comm (6v6 - 1 comm - 1 gorge = 4 fighting aliens) and Yes in serious games u need gorges or marines can easily suicide structures with a SG by coming twice (since SG is so cheap).
The general aimming in NS2 (marines) is very unestimated. First there is lag and most of the players here can't aim properly. If you played CS / Blackshot / AVA --- and train in those games you will be good in NS when the weapon is recoiless. Those Blackops players who think they are pro please buzz off. The weapons are so OP. SMG with scope + 1 degree spread at mid range / 2 degree at sniper range + super high firerate / high dmg + recoiless is retarded. Play BO for a living and your NS aimming will suffer. Because of recoiless weapon people don't think before they fire. With recoil it trains you to fire only when you think you will hit.
My point is clear in a 6v6 T3 enabled lagless game at current standing Marines = Chasers, and that includes pub games, since marines don't face a spawn inflexibility like aliens in NS1. In this theory it means aliens will lose most games and will not achieve T3 since at T2 the game will end, finally they have no chance on recovering - unlike NS1 where if the 1st fade dies early it will an opening. Wiping out a team of shot gunners only to have them all re-shotgun is not a chance on recovering + on top of that guns are pickable/recyclabe upon death.
EDIT: Interesting, in Skulk_Client.lua, without kCameraRollTiltModifier reducing the roll i think the camera goes into gimbal lock on certain surfaces when you try to yaw the camera. With the original code, i think the effect may be responsible for giving vent-walking that weird feel).
EDIT2: Hmm <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->possible bug<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> or intentional:
function Skulk:PlayerCameraCoordsAdjustment(cameraCoords)
if self.wallWalkingNormalCurrent then <-- this is always true? Perhaps use "if self.wallWalking then"? (btw self.wallWalking == true in vents and <u>sometimes</u> on stairs i see)
EDIT3: Found some weird output from this code. It only happens when you look 90 degrees up or down:
local viewModelTiltAngles = Angles()
viewModelTiltAngles:BuildFromCoords(cameraCoords)
Print(ToString(viewModelTiltAngles))
I found the following "equivalent" code doesn't do this (not sure if it's a bug or intended behavior):
local coords = player:GetViewCoords()
local angles = Angles()
angles:BuildFromCoords(coords)
Print(ToString(angles))
Tram changes are good indeed!
I already miss 167. Server crashes are as much a problem as the sound.
DO like the skulk changes.
Seems to be a hit registering problem with Marine weapons at extremely close range. Not sure I can put my finger on it, but it felt like it.
I understand how an "AvP" FOV would be disorienting to most. Is there any possibility to leaving this as an option?
I know it would complicate certain situations and in some ways double the work involved in fine tuning the skulk, but to me hanging upside down feels natural. If the engine supports this I think it would be awesome to offer a player both options. Not to mention that this would silence any potential future criticism of one over the other. At least let beta testers try this out with a console command.
Heavy engine, Sound problems, server memory leak problems, black screens, game crashes etc.
* Please fix some easy virtual problems
In example ping view is still wrong when I refresh list, no favorites, very small list window
No version in the Launch Pad. I just want to see if it is updated. And changelog is still Build 137 . Why no more change logs
There should be something disbales all msg outputs to console, console outputs also makes game slow imao
* Please fix problems and enchance Spark Editor
So we can re-focus on mapping
I really like the subtle wall-walking tilt effect, it actually makes it feel rather natural. It'd be excellent if you could implement some slight, subtle camera movements when walking (for all classes, alien and marine). So that when players move they're less of a floating, gliding box.
I liked the new tram atmospheric sounds, but it did seem a bit loud; it may have just been the video though, I'd have to hear how it sounds in-game.
I don't care that much as long as it avoids the issues NS1 had with all that. There the modification was allowed, but there wasn't any easy way of turning the atmospheric sound off, so people had to manually blank the files. I think that's a very inaccessible way of configuring the game. Either the files must be protected and enforced ingame or there has to be a way to simply stop the atmospheric sounds from playing instead of blanking them.
BUT, i really can't play this, the skulk view just makes me sick after some time, seriously. Now i can only play marines, even though aliens are my favorite race :( I hope there will be an option or a command to deactivate it, only playing as a marine isn't that much fun :(
I will be using all of that to my advantage now :P
Some of my thoughts
The shotgun to have a damage nerf.
Gorge to have more of a role
Matt.