* Its useful for balancing. If you are near dead, you have an increased chance to die. (additional to the low health). * The player needs feedback, beside some cold numbers in the corner. * Yes it is distracting. And thats absolutely intensional. * Play Quake if you wont a game that is only about numbers and non-distracting graphic.
That reminds me of the play-testers for Left4Dead2. Who decided to cut the feature of dynamic level routes, because its to confusing. The game don't has to be casual. And if it is harder to fight while badly wounded, than thats realistic.
Being killed in games is also no fun. But its in the game to create a challenge. And this challenge gets harder if you are badly wounded. Its not game-breaking at all.
I think it is fine, and I think I'd probably have vision issues if I was close to death. If it is a handicap for everyone, it is a handicap for no one.
<!--quoteo(post=1832313:date=Feb 15 2011, 02:33 PM:name=sheena_yanai)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sheena_yanai @ Feb 15 2011, 02:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832313"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->even higher lifeforms are short lived as soon their health is reaching 1 hp :p
and being unable to withdraw quickly to get your healing would just be as lame as having them die instantly when reaching 5 hp. as soon you would be crippled you just cant get away anymore, there is no "omg omg, i have to get away and hide". there is no such situation, as fade or onos you are dead meat, even though you could have escaped if you werent crippled.. its just a non practical idea which would just add alot of keyboard shmashing rage
(oh, and you have to look at the alien lifespan , a grown up marine aged around 20 to 30, fights against a 3 minutes old onos who just hatched as skulk 12 minutes ago, which possibly gets killed by any of these marines within the game time , thats pretty short lived compared to a marine :p)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, short-lived =/= short life span. The moment they make it to the battlefield, skulks are the most short-lived, and marines probably come in second. Also, you make no sense whatsoever. First you say "there will be no crippling for aliens which are supposed to be very short lived because they have to throw them against marines to stop them from entering a hive." because you believe that aliens are short-lived; well, skulks are short-lived, I agree with you on that. The frequency of deaths as a skulk is very high, and the time from spawning to death for a skulk is often very low. And then you say "even higher lifeforms are short lived as soon their health is reaching 1 hp :p ", that makes no sense. Anything with 1 hp is short-lived, but what the hell does that even mean? It's a non-issue. Totally irrelevant. Not worth mentioning. That's kinda like arguing the fine points of swordplay and someone pipes in with "but swords cut", and it's like, uh, yeah, okay? So obviously, we're talking about lifeforms changing from a state of perfect health, to the point of death or near-death. Therefore, only skulks are truly short-lived.
<!--quoteo(post=1832403:date=Feb 15 2011, 01:06 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Feb 15 2011, 01:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832403"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If it is a handicap for everyone, it is a handicap for no one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Balance is not the issue, any feature can be made balanced. Fun or not fun, that is the question.
<!--quoteo(post=1832362:date=Feb 15 2011, 03:30 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Feb 15 2011, 03:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Its useful for balancing. If you are near dead, you have an increased chance to die. (additional to the low health). * The player needs feedback, beside some cold numbers in the corner. * Yes it is distracting. And thats absolutely intensional. * Play Quake if you wont a game that is only about numbers and non-distracting graphic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Fights should remain fair, even at low health. Pretty much every multiplayer shooter follows that rule. 2. I never had a problem keeping up with my health in NS1, which only had the number. Just slightly tint the sides of the screen in red if additional feedback is wanted, but remove the blur and sound muffling. 3. The player should be in control at all times. A distracting interface is annoying. 4. I never played Quake, but NS has always been more on the arcady side. There's no recoil, no realistic movement, why would there be "realistic" near-death effects?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That reminds me of the play-testers for Left4Dead2. Who decided to cut the feature of dynamic level routes, because its to confusing. The game don't has to be casual. And if it is harder to fight while badly wounded, than thats realistic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If anything the overlay is more on the casual side, because it has no use except visual eye candy.
<!--quoteo(post=1832473:date=Feb 15 2011, 11:28 PM:name=Raza.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raza. @ Feb 15 2011, 11:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832473"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. Fights should remain fair, even at low health. Pretty much every multiplayer shooter follows that rule. 2. I never had a problem keeping up with my health in NS1, which only had the number. Just slightly tint the sides of the screen in red if additional feedback is wanted, but remove the blur and sound muffling. 3. The player should be in control at all times. A distracting interface is annoying. 4. I never played Quake, but NS has always been more on the arcady side. There's no recoil, no realistic movement, why would there be "realistic" near-death effects?
If anything the overlay is more on the casual side, because it has no use except visual eye candy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Pretty much every shooter is symmetrical. It isn't even fair that the marine can shoot while the skulk only has melee. But its challenging and fair for every member of the same team 2. and it adds a new aspect to the game. Its better to have change during the game, then every round is the same. 3. The player is in control. It has only become more challenging, because he is heavily wounded. 4. Because its something that contributes to the game.
I really hate those People who only play CounterStrike since more than 5 years and playing only this one de_dust map. Its so annoying. Every time the same. I'm thankful for every addition that expands the challenge of the game and brings in some change.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Now that you brought up Counter-Strike, I recall bullets have "stopping power" in CS, so each bullet you take would slow you down for half a second. Maybe that feature can be adapted into NS as well (minor slow for ranged attacks; noticable slow for melee)?
I think something needs to be done to stop marines from hopping all over the place, even when critically injured. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npBGPIa7x9M" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npBGPIa7x9M</a> (T-Rat's killing spree)
I dislike when my character is impaired in any way, such as when my screen goes white because of flashbang, as then the game is not as much about skill as it is about who can see anything first (team flashers ftw!!1one).
I do like how you get a strong visual indication when you are hit, red overlay on screen is usually a good example of such indication. What I dont like is when this indication stay, as then it doesnt only negate its purpose (then its about how damaged you are, not if you are hit or not), but also remove some colors contrast. I actually have been unsure if a power node was killed or if i was heavily damaged a number of times.
I hate when my sound is muffled, as that serves no purpose but to impair one of my senses, and as I actually still hear stuff irl, removes almost all the immersion.
The thing about marines jumping all over the place can be argued fades did it in the original with their "flight" where they'd just "fly" in, beat up / kill a guy, blink out, and repeat.
Something to indicate "A full shotgun clip to the face and off he flies!?" in which doing that actually MEANS something would be fantastic.
Basically, i don't like people abusing speed or jumping to make them impossible to kill. Since someone DID mention counter-strike, you also can't constantly just jump and still have full on accuracy either.
<!--quoteo(post=1832597:date=Feb 16 2011, 03:50 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Feb 16 2011, 03:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832597"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. Pretty much every shooter is symmetrical. It isn't even fair that the marine can shoot while the skulk only has melee. But its challenging and fair for every member of the same team 2. and it adds a new aspect to the game. Its better to have change during the game, then every round is the same. 3. The player is in control. It has only become more challenging, because he is heavily wounded. 4. Because its something that contributes to the game.
I really hate those People who only play CounterStrike since more than 5 years and playing only this one de_dust map. Its so annoying. Every time the same. I'm thankful for every addition that expands the challenge of the game and brings in some change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Irrelevant, because it affects both teams. 2. The effect is always the same and occurs in every game, it does not change from round to round. 3. So what you are saying is, the player is in control, but has less control? 4. Please elaborate on what it contributes to the game.
This is not about introducing new game elements, it is about impairing the players senses.
Yeah, but imparing senses in this way does not take the control from the player. you can always move and aim the same. its to your skill to overcom the impared senses.
1. Marines and aliens should not be symetrical. So its another story if it should be for both teams or not. I think its ok for the marines, because they have long ranged weapons its easier for them to overcome impared senses. 2. Every game you build an armory. Everything in games is the same for every round. That is the point. You dont need to make it more the same. The impared senses appear only when you are heavily wounded. Thats add a new change in other circumstances. 3. You are not in control if you are slowed down. Imparing senses this little bit, doesnt render you helpless. So you still in control. 4. As shown in point 2, every round in every game has the same features. So its always the same. It only differs in the circumstances it occures. So the more features (or changing states in gameplay) you have, the more variety every round happens.
Again sorry for my english. Its easy for me to read, but hard to write what i mean.
I'm not recommending this but, is it not possible that you could y'know... edit the lua files to remove this?
I personally wont because it provides a helpful visual clue to GET THE HELL OUTTA HEEERREEE!
Though I have been thinking about playing with the marine HUD lua files to create a nice custom HUD that displays "WARNING" when low on health (before the red-out shows).
Hm I see what you mean, but in the end it is just a health indicator. I don't feel that it adds variance to the fights.
<!--quoteo(post=1832938:date=Feb 17 2011, 08:44 PM:name=Zuriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zuriki @ Feb 17 2011, 08:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832938"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not recommending this but, is it not possible that you could y'know... edit the lua files to remove this?
I personally wont because it provides a helpful visual clue to GET THE HELL OUTTA HEEERREEE!
Though I have been thinking about playing with the marine HUD lua files to create a nice custom HUD that displays "WARNING" when low on health (before the red-out shows).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That depends on UWE. I hope the UI will be customizable in the final version, when consistency checks are implemented. Hopefully there will at least be an option to turn it off, if the overlay stays.
and if you want to stop a fade, set it on fire, and hammer it with shirtguns, theres no need for crippling if you got that kind of support weapon that eats away all your energy
Comments
* Its useful for balancing. If you are near dead, you have an increased chance to die. (additional to the low health).
* The player needs feedback, beside some cold numbers in the corner.
* Yes it is distracting. And thats absolutely intensional.
* Play Quake if you wont a game that is only about numbers and non-distracting graphic.
That reminds me of the play-testers for Left4Dead2. Who decided to cut the feature of dynamic level routes, because its to confusing.
The game don't has to be casual. And if it is harder to fight while badly wounded, than thats realistic.
Being killed in games is also no fun. But its in the game to create a challenge. And this challenge gets harder if you are badly wounded. Its not game-breaking at all.
(Sorry for my english, im from germany)
THIS IS BECAUSE:
THIS is ns2, THERE IS RESPAWN in ns2.
do we feel pain? no we respawn!
(in vietnam.... THERE WAS NO RESPAWN) *inside joke*
and being unable to withdraw quickly to get your healing would just be as lame as having them die instantly when reaching 5 hp. as soon you would be crippled you just cant get away anymore, there is no "omg omg, i have to get away and hide". there is no such situation, as fade or onos you are dead meat, even though you could have escaped if you werent crippled.. its just a non practical idea which would just add alot of keyboard shmashing rage
(oh, and you have to look at the alien lifespan , a grown up marine aged around 20 to 30, fights against a 3 minutes old onos who just hatched as skulk 12 minutes ago, which possibly gets killed by any of these marines within the game time , thats pretty short lived compared to a marine :p)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, short-lived =/= short life span. The moment they make it to the battlefield, skulks are the most short-lived, and marines probably come in second.
Also, you make no sense whatsoever.
First you say "there will be no crippling for aliens which are supposed to be very short lived because they have to throw them against marines to stop them from entering a hive." because you believe that aliens are short-lived; well, skulks are short-lived, I agree with you on that. The frequency of deaths as a skulk is very high, and the time from spawning to death for a skulk is often very low.
And then you say "even higher lifeforms are short lived as soon their health is reaching 1 hp :p ", that makes no sense. Anything with 1 hp is short-lived, but what the hell does that even mean? It's a non-issue. Totally irrelevant. Not worth mentioning. That's kinda like arguing the fine points of swordplay and someone pipes in with "but swords cut", and it's like, uh, yeah, okay?
So obviously, we're talking about lifeforms changing from a state of perfect health, to the point of death or near-death. Therefore, only skulks are truly short-lived.
Balance is not the issue, any feature can be made balanced. Fun or not fun, that is the question.
* The player needs feedback, beside some cold numbers in the corner.
* Yes it is distracting. And thats absolutely intensional.
* Play Quake if you wont a game that is only about numbers and non-distracting graphic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Fights should remain fair, even at low health. Pretty much every multiplayer shooter follows that rule.
2. I never had a problem keeping up with my health in NS1, which only had the number. Just slightly tint the sides of the screen in red if additional feedback is wanted, but remove the blur and sound muffling.
3. The player should be in control at all times. A distracting interface is annoying.
4. I never played Quake, but NS has always been more on the arcady side. There's no recoil, no realistic movement, why would there be "realistic" near-death effects?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That reminds me of the play-testers for Left4Dead2. Who decided to cut the feature of dynamic level routes, because its to confusing.
The game don't has to be casual. And if it is harder to fight while badly wounded, than thats realistic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If anything the overlay is more on the casual side, because it has no use except visual eye candy.
2. I never had a problem keeping up with my health in NS1, which only had the number. Just slightly tint the sides of the screen in red if additional feedback is wanted, but remove the blur and sound muffling.
3. The player should be in control at all times. A distracting interface is annoying.
4. I never played Quake, but NS has always been more on the arcady side. There's no recoil, no realistic movement, why would there be "realistic" near-death effects?
If anything the overlay is more on the casual side, because it has no use except visual eye candy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Pretty much every shooter is symmetrical. It isn't even fair that the marine can shoot while the skulk only has melee. But its challenging and fair for every member of the same team
2. and it adds a new aspect to the game. Its better to have change during the game, then every round is the same.
3. The player is in control. It has only become more challenging, because he is heavily wounded.
4. Because its something that contributes to the game.
I really hate those People who only play CounterStrike since more than 5 years and playing only this one de_dust map. Its so annoying. Every time the same. I'm thankful for every addition that expands the challenge of the game and brings in some change.
I think something needs to be done to stop marines from hopping all over the place, even when critically injured.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npBGPIa7x9M" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npBGPIa7x9M</a> (T-Rat's killing spree)
I do like how you get a strong visual indication when you are hit, red overlay on screen is usually a good example of such indication. What I dont like is when this indication stay, as then it doesnt only negate its purpose (then its about how damaged you are, not if you are hit or not), but also remove some colors contrast.
I actually have been unsure if a power node was killed or if i was heavily damaged a number of times.
I hate when my sound is muffled, as that serves no purpose but to impair one of my senses, and as I actually still hear stuff irl, removes almost all the immersion.
Something to indicate "A full shotgun clip to the face and off he flies!?" in which doing that actually MEANS something would be fantastic.
Basically, i don't like people abusing speed or jumping to make them impossible to kill. Since someone DID mention counter-strike, you also can't constantly just jump and still have full on accuracy either.
2. and it adds a new aspect to the game. Its better to have change during the game, then every round is the same.
3. The player is in control. It has only become more challenging, because he is heavily wounded.
4. Because its something that contributes to the game.
I really hate those People who only play CounterStrike since more than 5 years and playing only this one de_dust map. Its so annoying. Every time the same. I'm thankful for every addition that expands the challenge of the game and brings in some change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Irrelevant, because it affects both teams.
2. The effect is always the same and occurs in every game, it does not change from round to round.
3. So what you are saying is, the player is in control, but has less control?
4. Please elaborate on what it contributes to the game.
This is not about introducing new game elements, it is about impairing the players senses.
1. Marines and aliens should not be symetrical. So its another story if it should be for both teams or not. I think its ok for the marines, because they have long ranged weapons its easier for them to overcome impared senses.
2. Every game you build an armory. Everything in games is the same for every round. That is the point. You dont need to make it more the same. The impared senses appear only when you are heavily wounded. Thats add a new change in other circumstances.
3. You are not in control if you are slowed down. Imparing senses this little bit, doesnt render you helpless. So you still in control.
4. As shown in point 2, every round in every game has the same features. So its always the same. It only differs in the circumstances it occures. So the more features (or changing states in gameplay) you have, the more variety every round happens.
Again sorry for my english. Its easy for me to read, but hard to write what i mean.
I personally wont because it provides a helpful visual clue to GET THE HELL OUTTA HEEERREEE!
Though I have been thinking about playing with the marine HUD lua files to create a nice custom HUD that displays "WARNING" when low on health (before the red-out shows).
Hm I see what you mean, but in the end it is just a health indicator. I don't feel that it adds variance to the fights.
<!--quoteo(post=1832938:date=Feb 17 2011, 08:44 PM:name=Zuriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zuriki @ Feb 17 2011, 08:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832938"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not recommending this but, is it not possible that you could y'know... edit the lua files to remove this?
I personally wont because it provides a helpful visual clue to GET THE HELL OUTTA HEEERREEE!
Though I have been thinking about playing with the marine HUD lua files to create a nice custom HUD that displays "WARNING" when low on health (before the red-out shows).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That depends on UWE.
I hope the UI will be customizable in the final version, when consistency checks are implemented.
Hopefully there will at least be an option to turn it off, if the overlay stays.
-Comes on at way too high of a health %. I would suggest 10-15%
-The sound distortion is too much. It puts the player at a disadvantage
-Use other sounds to bring more of a panic feeling. Ex: heartbeat,breathing... don't overdo it.