Hit Detection?
zex
Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
<div class="IPBDescription">How is it working?</div>How is the hit detection functioning in the NS2 beta? I have seen video where it appears to be very difficult to kill aliens with human weapons, which usually involves multiple clips fired and not seeming to have any effect. Is this due to hits not registering, or do aliens just have massive amounts of hit points? Or some other reason?
Comments
I didn't play battlefield 2. Are you saying hit detection is not 100% functional or not? I know lag and low FPS can make it hard to aim, but there are people who are allegedly not experiencing either lag or low FPS on certain servers, and it appears that they are using multiple clips to take down a single enemy... so is this by design or not?
When server is running fine I don't have problems with pistol. LMG is much less accurate so I don't know if it works as it should, it certainly is less accurate than NS1 LMG.
When server is running fine I don't have problems with pistol. LMG is much less accurate so I don't know if it works as it should, it certainly is less accurate than NS1 LMG.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And has no visable recoil, which makes it really hard to shoot properly.
No. See this video.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZxy6fnjwe0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZxy6fnjwe0</a>
@1:40, 1 rifle clip and 1 pistol clip. The skulk is running in a straight line and hardly dodging at all for half of the encounter.
@3:30 1 shotgun clip, the skulk isn't even moving for the first few shots from point blank range.
Can someone tell me whats going on in those two scenarios? NS2HD claims it's a combination of his ping and bad aim, but it really seems like there is something going on "under the hood" which makes it almost impossible for weapons to register hits.
Actually they are running at below 33 ticks (30 max) due to a configured variable set by UWE.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=Nov 20 2011:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Nov 20 2011)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another reason the updates to the client could become infrequently is if the server CPU become bogged down. The net_stats command will also show you how frequently the server is "ticking". The server is configured to tick at 30 FPS, but with enough stuff going on this could drop down. This is pretty similar to problems we had with the initial NS1 release. Between the alpha and the beta we really focused on getting this up, but we still have some more work to do there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or in full:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2010/11/ns2_closed_beta_status" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2010...sed_beta_status</a>
Why is that? As you know, there won't be recoil (muzzle climb) in this game. And this is OT: But you're right that it shouldn't be a pew pew laser rifle, with no feedback. I think a good enough effect is if the weapon model moved back slightly (but visibly) as you fire your first shot, and stays there as you're firing, just vibrating slightly (but visibly) justifying the bullet spread, then returns to its position as you let go of the trigger. Gun also needs slight (BUT VISIBLE) wobble when you walk.
<!--quoteo(post=1821074:date=Jan 3 2011, 01:37 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 3 2011, 01:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821074"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No. See this video.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was a joke. :/
I can see why you might believe the issue is caused by your own aim/ping, but it seems as if there is a publicly known issue with hit detection independent of ping or aim. Hopefully in the future when you record video of hit detection failures you might note the true cause of the issue or at least keep it in mind when composing your commentary.
I hope we can get to 60 tick this year. That would be glorious.
It was a joke. :/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I get that, but why would there be spread without recoil? That's not how it works, you get rid of muzzle climb, and bam, all your shots go where you place em. Not how it works, it seems, there is bullet deviation, you could attribute this to bullet physics, but none of the maps are big enough for that. Most guns start dipping @ 300 yards, 600 yards, and 800 yards, unless it's a high powered rifle.
I'd expect future weapons to be of higher caliber than even our rifles, and have way less bullet drop due to new firing systems. I mean hell, we have recoil less rifles today that can fire .45 rounds at the same spot, full auto, 100% of the time. That's TODAY. So yes, probably by whatever future year this game is, recoil will be gone most likely, but so then why does the gun spread?
I know NS2 is not a realistic game, or even attempting to be(bunny hopping), but still, if there is no recoil your shots should always go where you place them. Or there should be some method for the spread to be shown, so you can do short controlled bursts. Currently I've found doing short controlled bursts is a good way to die. Going fully auto seems the best method as of the current beta. And the clip drains in less than two seconds, so it's kinda a crap shoot. It took longer in NS1 to drain the clip, but the same no recoil thing existed, but there was no spread.
I'm jus saying. It's a problem with lag, hit detection, ect.
And NS2HD's videos are taken with fraps, so what you're seeing is VASTLY different from the actual game.
I can fraps, let us say, PCSX2 running Killzone, which runs at like 2FPS, but using Fraps, it'll show smooth 60FPS. That's just how it works. NS2HD has commented several times on that question.
And yeah, 60 / 66 tick is ideal for 95% of servers. Though after playing on 100 tick servers with the right rates in other games, it's a glorious experience all it's own. That brings the delay down to almost LAN like qualities.
I think you need to clarify what you mean here. I don't understand what you've said. Someone could read this thread and actually think that fraps somehow makes the game look smoother.
It is a simple fact that the fps you see on NS2HD is much lower than it is in reality.
EDIT: For example, I might be playing a scene on Rockdown at 40fps, but beginning the fraps record will bring it down to 25fps. And of course, the maximum fps I can show you on YouTube is 29.97.
It is a simple fact that the fps you see on NS2HD is much lower than it is in reality.
EDIT: For example, I might be playing a scene on Rockdown at 40fps, but beginning the fraps record will bring it down to 25fps. And of course, the maximum fps I can show you on YouTube is 29.97.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
O_o
Totally confused by this post in every way. It basically says what I said in my post, again?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For example, I might be playing a scene on Rockdown at 40fps, but beginning the fraps record will bring it down to 25fps. And of course, the maximum fps I can show you on YouTube is 29.97.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS2HD is right. Your comment is confusing, and not similar to what he said. You should clarify.
2 -> 60FPS
vs
40 -> 24FPS
That's the opposite.
This statement implies that fraps somehow increases fps. I was worried this might confuse people and make them think I am showing them gameplay that is smoother than reality. Of course, the opposite is true.
Well I just assumed most people knew what Fraps was, as it's been around for years...but I guess you're right.
I'm just saying in PCSX2, there are videos of games running @ 60FPS that cannot currently be run above a certain FPS even with optimization. People oft cry foul over at the PCSX2 forums over it.
For example, I could be running Crysis @ 35-40FPS, but record @ 60FPS, and the video would come out and look like I was getting 60FPS. This has been my experience, at least. Hence why NS2HD's videos can be misleading to some because they don't know of Fraps.
Now, back off topic...
<!--quoteo(post=1821106:date=Jan 3 2011, 07:07 PM:name=Mkilbride)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mkilbride @ Jan 3 2011, 07:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821106"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For example, I could be running Crysis @ 35-40FPS, but record @ 60FPS, and the video would come out and look like I was getting 60FPS. This has been my experience, at least. Hence why NS2HD's videos can be misleading to some because they don't know of Fraps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This defies logic. The addition of processing overhead can never improve rendering speed. You must stop perpetuating this myth about my videos. The video cannot 'look like 60fps' if there are only 40fps rendered.
The only way my videos 'mislead' people is by showing NS2 running slower than it really does run on my machine. Please do not continue to insinuate otherwise.
That said, saying "there's absolutely no lag" over and over in some of your videos doesn't exactly instill confidence when you can see it on the screen, NS2HD. (man, I wish I could call you a name instead of a description) ;)
You don't seem to understand. NS2HD videos DO show hit detection problems. But his commentary unintentionally misrepresents the problem because he was not aware of the server update rate issue as it relates to hit detection before reading this thread.
<!--quoteo(post=1821109:date=Jan 3 2011, 08:17 AM:name=NS2HD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD @ Jan 3 2011, 08:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On topic, my videos will actually yield lower tick than reality, because my fps is lower than it would be if I was not recording, thus lowering my server update rate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your framerate does not affect the server update rate. Your videos reach large numbers of people, it is important that your commentary does not misrepresent what you are recording.
You are really not understanding what has been posted.
But it's his show. He can do whatever he wants.
This is after firing multiple shotgun shots point blank into the back of a non-moving skulk and then being killed after emptying the rest of the clip with no effect:
<!--QuoteBegin-NS2HD+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you land a single direct hit on a skulk with a shotgun they will die, at least with level 1 armor. <b>I don't know what was going on there</b>, probably a combination of my Australian ping and... we're all familiar with my skills<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fully appreciate that when NS2HD recorded the commentary, like he said he didn't know what was going on, and these incorrect conclusions about his skill being the cause have often been repeated in his previous video commentary, as he hinted at in the quote.
Now we all know "what was going on there:" hit detection is not fully functional due to the server update being too slow. The only "solution" that I would suggest, and I don't even like using that word in this context because it seems pushy and somewhat insulting which is not where I am coming from, is that future commentary reflect the reality of what is being recorded.
edit: Pseudonight, i totally agree with you that "i am missing because of faulty hit detection in the Beta" would be an appropriate comment, but i wouldn't want to put words in NS2HD's mouth, like you said it's his show and he can say whatever he wants. I'm just trying to help him out so his statements are not inaccurate.
You know, I've experienced that in CS 1.6 and CS:S, where afk or alt-tabbed players are harder to hit somehow. Makes you suddenly suspicious that all those moments you "missed" are actually the game's fault.
Side note: I wish there was alien blood splatter decals like in NS1.
I can't fault him for coming to the conclusions he did, he just hadn't heard about the server update issue at that point of time so I'm sure he didn't want to speculate about the code when he wasn't fully aware of the evidence or the statements UW has made on the issue.
<!--quoteo(post=1821121:date=Jan 3 2011, 09:25 AM:name=PseudoKnight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PseudoKnight @ Jan 3 2011, 09:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821121"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, I've experienced that in CS 1.6 and CS:S, where afk or alt-tabbed players are harder to hit somehow. Makes you suddenly suspicious that all those moments you "missed" are actually the game's fault.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm guessing that's an server performance optimization, where idle players don't get as many updates from the server in order to maximize the experience for active players. Maybe UW should look into implementing something like that, if it in fact is the case wih CS.