ns2_clandestine

SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members Posts: 815 Fully active user
edited November 2012 in Mapping
Public Test Feedback/changelogs (downloads)
Available on Steam Workshop- Still a few bugs but almost there



LEVEL: ns2_clandestine (clandestine: secret,hidden,obscure)

Theme:Alien Research Facility located underground (cavern) and someone forgot to lock a cage door in short.
image
Tech Points: 6
Resource Nozzles: 8
(1 at each tech point with a bonus Duel RT Room)

Target player count: 8v8 to 16v16.

This is a ALPHA LEVEL Public test of the level it's self and cannot be fully balanced until UWE implements all game content so please only report suggestions and bugs.

(NO COMPLAINING OF BALANCE)

Change-log for V109

1. Lots of custom cinematics (placeholders)
2. OMG, Commander Invisible group work
3. Occlusion Geometry added
4. Waypoints added and refined everywhere
5. Moved some Resource Nodes Closer to tech points (Croach limitation)
6. Changed skybox to a blue Version of UWE's.
7. I could go on all day so download it and leave me feedback. It's only been 3 months since the last update for this level.




Reminder: Ladders are disabled in the current game build.

For ease of install use the installer below,It is set to install to the default directory,if you have a custom install path Just point to your "\natural selection 2\ns2" folder.

{Production Abandoned Until 1.0}


Production Continued- Steam Workshop

Killed about 50 errors, skybox still broken

Known issues-
Random spawns (built for fixed spawns)
sometimes no IP on game start or bad location depending on spawn location
aliens spawn under map occasionally
drop into the abyss in generators vent
really dark corner in ventilation approach lower hallway





Screens and Videos will be in the Post Below.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members Posts: 815 Fully active user
    edited January 2011
    reserved for screens and videos

    image
    image
    image
    V106 Screen
    image
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi! Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation Posts: 6,132
    I like the fact you used an installer. +1.

    I've just downloaded, installed and ran through. If you want an honest opinion and a lot of advice (with a lot of bad language not suitable for these forums) inbox me and I'll give you a few general pointers.

    For what I can put which won't get me instantly banned on these forums, I will say your enthusiasm is second to none.

    - The infantry portal traps marines in one area to start with, no room to manoeuvre, only forward.
    - The ladder in the alien spawn gets you sticky-pushed through the prop above the walkway.
    - There's a lot of level-over-level which will look confusing to a commander if invisible, or obstruct gameplay from a commander view if kept visible.
    - A lot of area's simply lack function. Pointless looking hallways that go to a bare room with just a tech point. There's no story, ethos or atmosphere so to speak.
    blah blah blah
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members Posts: 815 Fully active user
    QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jan 1 2011, 10:09 PM) »
    I've just downloaded, installed and ran through. If you want an honest opinion and a lot of advice (with a lot of bad language not suitable for these forums) inbox me and I'll give you a few general pointers.


    I am perplexed as why you would want me to subject myself to abusive language. As a matter of fact i'm not even sure what your point is by that statement?

    If it doesn't fit your style then why threaten with abusive language and move on to the next thread you want to kill, if that is in fact what you are trying to accomplish here but then again i'm not sure what you where trying to accomplish?

    I can see this thread that had every intention on being positive towards the game and mapping tools for the community will go down in flames. once again arrogance prevails.

    "some peoples children"- From the urban dictionary meaning:

    1. a phrase used to describe something strange, unusual, mean, cruel, or just plainly something you wouldn't do that a person or more than one person did that you saw.

    2. a phrase used to describe people that were not brought up by their parents very well
  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members Posts: 1,677
    I believe it was just a bit of playful banter Wolf. Any kind of contribution to the map-pool is more than welcome at this point.
  • uffouffo Join Date: 2003-05-03 Member: 16026Members Posts: 583
    edited January 2011
    What I think what Thaldy is trying to say is that in overall the map still has that really amateurish look and sometimes it's hard to say it without trying to hurt the creator's feelings :P Most of the corridors feel like they've just been extruded and no further effort has put into them.
    And some of the props are scaled off proportions. Now I'm not saying that you can't do that since I use it as well but you should maintain some of the prop's original ratio. For example the vent tech wall prop beneath the window at marine start really jumps into my eyes.
    But you have still lots of time to perfect things before ns2 releases :)

    And oh, the console indicates couple minor issues:
    • TeamNumber - Value is outside expected range (0.00, 2.00) clamping to 2.00
    • Volume - Value is outside expected range (0.00, 1.00) clamping to 1.00
    • Could not open file 'materials/wolfskybox/wolf_up.material'

    EDIT:
    darn, forgot the list of pros as there still are some neat things in your map, like those line of vents with crate props on them.
    :: Join the TSA they said. See the galaxy they said ::
    - Finished: co_perkele
    - In progress: ns2_perkele2
  • yimmasabiyimmasabi Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58318Members Posts: 372
    edited January 2011
    That glass hallway reminds me way of AE 35. Good job Wolf ! I like mini map 2.

    But in the second sshot, I recommend you much more circular walls around the CC, instead of that hexagonal like wall. And change the texture of that wall 2, try something similar to CC textures.

    Also you are in the rid.awfull mode I think, when you take sshots go for high graphics mode.
    Esenja Energy Management and Engineering, Mechanics, Electrics and Software LCC
    http:/www.esenja.com
  • AnnoyanceAnnoyance Join Date: 2011-01-02 Member: 76103Members Posts: 2
    edited January 2011
    Hi wolf, monsen[Ger](met him in the map)
    helped to go trough your map and here are some things we found ( so gorge hats to him )

    Marine spawn,
    -there is a missing texture in one of the vent out of marine spawn ( def tex )
    - when the power is cut the lowered computer room stays in plain white light
    - shame that scene with the mac and the skulk got taken out we really liked that in the initial version
    -in commander mode when you go outside of the room def textures are visible on the window

    Ventilation room
    -Some problems with drifter placing in commander mode of hive dont know about comm chair
    -The center top fan isnt placed ontop of the ceiling properly when you skulk trough it you can look into the map
    -When the pwoer is cut the screens with the custom textures stay running althought we do not know if it is possible to change this easily we thought we had to make a not of it
    -at the command consoles a floor texture is missing problably some grid texture
    -in the ventilation shaft behind the tech point marine heads stick trough the cealing when they walk it + they are able to shoot trough the wall @ lets say a hive in that area
    *edit* found another bug there when you get out of the ventspace the marines can crouch trough. as a marine go into the space only skulks should be able to go on in, you can jump+ duck yourself out of the map
    -the grid mesh in front of the extractor has no collision you can fly / skulk trough

    Double node room
    -When you skulk to the top you can see the rest of the map trough the grid although it memory hogs the pc and nothing is porperly visible it might give some tactical advantage in compentitive gameplay
    -gameplay wise I am not sure about that room since it has got that nice round door but right on the otherside of the wall is that big open wall
    why would I take that scary door if there is such a big opening where skulks cant hide ;)

    Generator
    -screen keeps running if power is cut
    -the generator itself is skulkable maybe a death trigger on it would be proper ?
    -some mashes have no player collision pillars on the side of the map
    -comm mode bottom left when you get a little outside the map you can see def texture


    area 37 aka alien spawn,
    -some mashes have no player collision pillars on the side of the map
    -in comm mode there is a little grey square over the minimap
    -the beams on the ceiling in top do not reach the wall although this might have been in the design
    -when spawned out of an egge and you look trough the fan you can see a model floating in the distance

    Brig
    -from the brig to the vent room there are some missing tex in the ventshaft


    I hope I heloped you a bit with this feedback
    wel would like a feel that there has been lived more, its a bit to clean
    and some les repetitive textures...
    and some more detailed map geometry please
    but well its still an alpha and it looks like it is coming along nice
    and its getting balance play tested now?
    keep up the good work and please if you update it dont forget to post I wanna skulk those lovley vent some more !

    Yours sincerely your biggest annoyance
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi! Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation Posts: 6,132
    edited January 2011
    What I'm saying is I can't possibly help you without hurting your feelings. For example,

    None of your rooms actually make any sense. I couldn't see it being partially developed for an actual game or the standard in which I'd let myself show the screenshot on these forums. The walls are entirely flat and have very badly aligned and sized textures. I'd look at my level, then I'd look at one of the NS2 test levels, then I'd look at a AAA game or similar and think to myself, 'Can I see one of these guys throwing this in their game?'. If the answer I get back is a 'hell no' I scrap it, if I get a 'well it's possibly worth looking at' I keep it.

    We used to have a lot of talented level designers round here who concentrated hard on aesthetics and were brilliant at it. The case is no longer so and there are only a few left. If people want to improve they've got to realise the harsh reality of technology moving on since NS1 and that boxy half-life 1 like mapping isn't going to cut it.

    So it's not subjecting yourself to abuse per se, it's wanting to improve and being told straight by someone how to improve and how to take your design to the next level. A lot of people in these forums won't be straight with you on the forums.
    blah blah blah
  • GeneralBowserGeneralBowser Join Date: 2010-05-19 Member: 71801Members Posts: 231
    I went ingame for a couple of minutes, the map seems fine, but I tought it was a bit to dark at some places.
    When the powernode is on at Generator it still seems to be quite dark..
    There are some other spots that could a little bit of extra light, like the vent next to the tech node in ventilation.
    image

    NS2STATS Statistics site

    QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jul 13 2011, 01:16 AM) »
    I'm fine with all the complaints, but don't start accusing us of some shady used car salesmen tactics or something.
  • esionesion Join Date: 2010-12-30 Member: 76048Members Posts: 4
    hi,
    for those who want to test:
    esion.net | Phenom X6 | 6 x 3.8ghz
    just put the map on my server, have fun to try out. :)
  • yimmasabiyimmasabi Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58318Members Posts: 372
    edited January 2011
    QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jan 2 2011, 04:57 PM) »
    What I'm saying is I can't possibly help you without hurting your feelings. For example,

    None of your rooms actually make any sense. I couldn't see it being partially developed for an actual game or the standard in which I'd let myself show the screenshot on these forums. The walls are entirely flat and have very badly aligned and sized textures. I'd look at my level, then I'd look at one of the NS2 test levels, then I'd look at a AAA game or similar and think to myself, 'Can I see one of these guys throwing this in their game?'. If the answer I get back is a 'hell no' I scrap it, if I get a 'well it's possibly worth looking at' I keep it.

    We used to have a lot of talented level designers round here who concentrated hard on aesthetics and were brilliant at it. The case is no longer so and there are only a few left. If people want to improve they've got to realise the harsh reality of technology moving on since NS1 and that boxy half-life 1 like mapping isn't going to cut it.

    So it's not subjecting yourself to abuse per se, it's wanting to improve and being told straight by someone how to improve and how to take your design to the next level. A lot of people in these forums won't be straight with you on the forums.



    Yeah I agree all above with you too, but consider that there are 2 kind of techniques for mapping. Breath First or Depth First

    Consider that these are first wall designs etc. He just want to show his dream map. In real, for now, for me, I dont care anything about visual things like walls, textures etc. I focus on Idea of rooms, position of RTs and bases, some big objects etc, and finally map design. In real the best playable map is the best one imao. You know there are much more visual maps NS1 but most of them are not playable.

    I mean we cant say anything without playing a final version.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Esenja Energy Management and Engineering, Mechanics, Electrics and Software LCC
    http:/www.esenja.com
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited January 2011
    About the look of the map, I think you can go a long way with proper usage of trim textures and models. For example this screenshot:

    http://www.super-nova-team.com/ns2/clandestine2.png

    A few things that would make it look nicer:
    - Currently it looks like the console in the middle is floating above the floor, due to textures not being aligned to the round wall. And there is no trim texturing going on at all. Also the texture on top of this wall needs something else then just a gray texture. Just think about how it would look IRL and go from there.

    - The ceiling texture needs something... It looks out of place atm.

    - The windows, if it was me, I'd make them half the size as in [XX] instead of [ X ], to make it look less stretched.

    You know, things like that. Making stuff actually be part of the map by using trims and props to cover up the odd angles with props or something, will go a long way...




    Also Thaldy WTF man, constructive criticism doesn't have to be abusive :D
    Post edited by Unknown User on

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  • TigTig Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71674Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 977
    edited January 2011
    wolf don't sweat it.

    you started boxy and have a complete map. now go back and slice up the walls so you can take advantage of the trim textures.

    what they mean by that is that there are textures made specifically for trim, so theres walls 128 x 128 and then there's trim pieces for the edges. i'd take a room that may look bland, wipe all the textures and replace with default wall textures and default trim textures. then go in and replace the defaults with relevant and appealing textures. maybe extrude some of the faces backwards for a little "actual bump mapping."

    after your done that, throw some basic props in to either A. cover any texture flaws, and/or B. improve gameplay and aesthetics.

    then after that go in and light the room for atmosphere.

    thal doesn't mean to be rude, and he's a good mapper, he should be trying to guide you. you have a lot of potential and you understand the editor, which means the community needs and wants you. keep at it.

    Edit: I personally don't care if your map has a theme, just as long as it's rooms are unique enough so that i know that i can take "the cool reactor room's north side eerie corridor to get back to alien start"
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi! Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation Posts: 6,132
    QUOTE (Tig @ Jan 3 2011, 06:35 PM) »
    thal doesn't mean to be rude,


    Indeed. Put down as 'just my style' (or a Scottish mother).

    I'd actually chip in and say look at the concepts page again to give you inspiration on how you should make your environment look.
    blah blah blah
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members Posts: 815 Fully active user
    I've been working specifically on area 37 portion for the last few days so the next update will be specifically that area along with some miner game-play issues throughout.

    I took advantage of the "bump mapping" suggestion and am really pleased with the amount of atmospheric impact it has. Also, The vanilla vents with default textures are just placeholders untill I know for sure they work well in actual gameplay.

    A lot of textures will be default as i am starting to build a few custom textures as i can't seem to get what i am looking for in some areas. adding more "curvy" wall to ceiling/floors as well as adding in some of the floor-mods.

    I will try to rectify the level over level areas with a little creative shaping of passages and commander camera height/angles (if working) as they still feel off or not functioning properly to me for some reason.If i can't fix, delete and try again.

    I just started my 2nd full time job so i won't be releasing anything until this coming weekend.
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members Posts: 815 Fully active user
    Version A106 With change logs....see first post.
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members Posts: 815 Fully active user
    Well, Progress is slow lately as i took on a second FT Job but i am determined to push forward on this level. I will most likely not release another version for a couple of weeks but here is a glimps of the changes and polish done in some of the areas.

    Ventilation:
    Added some lerk friendly perches and areas so a skulk can jump through from place to place without hitting ground level to get across the area.
    image

    Area 37 approach:
    A little work on the floor area and catwalk (alien friendly) connecting vents.
    image

    Area 37 stairs/node:
    Moved Staircase to edge of room to accommodate better access to the node and added a water tower style ladder to upper level.
    image

    Area 37 Alternate Entrance:
    Some polish and cinematics and use of the broken glass props.
    image

    Brig / Ventilation connecting area (new area):
    Vent by pipes connecting to the brig along with skulk/lerk ambush spots.
    image

    Ventilation Lower entrance from double:
    Removed fire and went with a more lived in grungy feel.
    image

    Still so much to do and so little time but that's what i have so far. I will do a pass on lighting after the game is optimized, I feel limited by performance from use of lights at this time. Hope ya like what you see so far.
  • TigTig Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71674Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 977
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    im a big fan of those corridors.

    Whats the supposed function of that huge room?
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members Posts: 815 Fully active user
    QUOTE (peregrinus @ Feb 15 2011, 08:00 AM) »
    Whats the supposed function of that huge room?


    The large area "ventilation" is just that, A mechanical room that drives the airflow throughout the base.

    The concept for this room is to make the player believe that all of the ventilation is tied to this room like intersecting "T" junctions inside vents that lead out of view blocked by screens or dampers so the player thinks it leads to a large area where fans push/pull air. I will be adding some cinematics of dust blowing to simulate direction of airflow within some of those areas.

    When i created the room size i had jet-pack and lerk in mind to be able to fly freely and take cover and/or hide easily but mind your control when flying as the fans will blend you to shreds.

    A network of vents and pipes also make it an ideal playground for a gorge to execute some crafty chamber placements.

    The room has 3 main corridor accesses, one with a weldable door leading to double as well as 2 vents in obscure places. The ventilation system will be complex but intuitive enough you won't get lost as it will mostly be short runs where you must exit and re-enter nearby to proceed to the next area.
  • PapayasPapayas Join Date: 2010-07-01 Member: 72219Members Posts: 812
    I really want to try out this map.

    How do I install maps to try them out?
    Sig images should be no larger than 400x75px in size.
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members Posts: 815 Fully active user
    The Installer will walk you through the installation then start the game, open the console with the "~" key and type in "map ns2_clandestine_A106" without the quotes and you should be good to go.

    NOTE: the installer points to the default steam directory install so if you installed ns2 somewhere else you will need to point the installer to that directory.
  • PapayasPapayas Join Date: 2010-07-01 Member: 72219Members Posts: 812
    edited March 2011
    Nice work on the map!

    I just took a look at it and I am impressed!


    Things I liked:

    -The size of the map is a good size and I really like it
    -The alien start is cool with the elevated Hive
    -The dynamic sounds that occur when you walk around the corridor area with the fade in the prison cell (Point of this?)
    -Reminds me of an NS1 map


    Things I didn't like:

    -In some of the areas the ceilings were too low
    -The resource node at Alien Start seems 'out-of-place'
    -The areas under the floor were meshed allowing people to see skulks running around under them
    -The power node at the corridor just outside Alien Start seems 'out-of-place'



    A few bugs:

    -When you look out the Cockpit(?) area at marine start you can see the corridors of the map




    Other than that, very nice map and very nice work! I am looking forward to the completed version!
    Sig images should be no larger than 400x75px in size.
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members Posts: 815 Fully active user
    thanks for the feedback. A lot of the issues have been resolved/fixed and a new version will be done "hopefully" by this weekend that includes most of the fixes including commander view obstructions.

    In short around 30 hours of changes and construction over the last build are coming soon. :) Working 2 full time jobs so my progress has slowed considerably.
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members Posts: 815 Fully active user
    edited March 2011
    Haven't had much time to fix everything but this release has too many changes to list all of them all..shweeew!



    Build A107 was an internal test so grab A108 from the first post.
    As Always, Feedback and bug reports please. :)

    Thanks everyone, Testing this for me really helps save time i don't have to spare.

    EDIT: I have this level up on my West Coast (Super Nova) Quad Core Box.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,014
    Had a look at it for the first time. You have certainly put a lot of work into it.

    A few concerns I have:
    1) Too many huge rooms. One or two is ok, but you have at least 4. That's a huge advantage for lerks for most of the game until jetpacks are out.
    2) Lighting is quite dark in many areas. Some are so dark that I couldn't even see around without flipping on alien vision. I like the dark feel, but sometimes it's a little too much.
    3) Huge distance between alien start and the next resource node. With DI, aliens are forced to open with a second hive right off the bat, otherwise it will take forever to stretch the DI to another part of the map.
    4) Many vents are disorienting because the texture is too uniform. Often I can't figure out which way the vent leads.

    Likes:
    -Great use of sounds
    -Distinctive areas
    -Complex map with many vents and corridors...many rooms feel quite natural and real and not forced into being a game. It's quite nice.

    Of course, I have no idea how this plays in an actual game. These are just my guesses based on observation.
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members Posts: 815 Fully active user
    Thanks for the feed back Quovatis!

    I am thinking hard on room size, Particularly generators as i may lose the elevator upper area. Maybe a collapse of sorts where you can see it but not access it leaving some small areas for roosting and a few holes for skulks to hide in.

    Lighting still is in it's early stages and after playing with a few people aliens truly have an advantage in some darker areas but i still have to keep in mind aliens mostly use Mêlée attacks so they need to blend a bit.

    I am hoping UWE will implement a flag for no power so marines will require a repair or portable power node for double but i am open for suggestions on how to alleviate the DI/Harvester issue.

    I have a few textures i made up that will help with vent navigation but haven't finished them yet. Think galvanized ventilation system with scratched/warn areas from other aliens passing through them. May not be implemented until very late.

    Thanks for taking the time to report back, every little bit helps. I am also going to import some custom sounds too if i can get FMOD and the builder to be friends......argh..
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,014
    Surely you can already make a room not have a power node? I'm not familiar with spark, but there are many areas on tram that don't have power by default (alien expansion, alien start, tram tunnels, etc). That would be interesting to not have power in double res. Although that would be that marines couldn't build there until they have L2 tech (since that is required for power packs). If you do go that route, make sure the two nodes can be covered by a single power pack. They might be too far apart right now, I don't know.

    As for the alien DI/harvester issue, the powerless double res won't really help the aliens that much. They need a way to link DI quickly to another room. Maybe make alien start very close to double so that the DI can go through the walls, but still make any lifeforms take the longer corridor. But that might make it bad when the ARC comes out, as the hive might be seigeable from double, which probably isn't good. I don't know, but as it is, aliens can't get a second harvester up for a very long time unless they take a second hive immediately.
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members Posts: 815 Fully active user
    There is no flag to disable power in the editor (yet?). Someone correct me if I'm wrong but, the areas you see in tram are just lighting effects and marines can still build there. Would be nice to have timed doors but who knows what kinds of goodies they have up their sleeves for the editor later on.

    Usually the games i played, it started with aliens going for a quick run to MS harassing the marines giving alien comm a chance to get things moving. I estimated 6 patches of DI to get to the Brigg node and 5 to get to double so i don't think it will be such an issue as marines need to acquire flamethrowers before they can even start to put a dent in DI. I'll wait a few more patches to see how it pans out before i do major changes to the layout.
  • TrCTrC Join Date: 2008-11-30 Member: 65612Members Posts: 1,024 Advanced user
    Visually impressive, clostrophobic at times and why is the fade taking steambath?
    image
    #exertus / #team.fantasy @ Quakenet
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