I talk about PC games, not crappy console games. Of course, you have crappy console games ported to PC and they have a crappy FOV fixed system. That's the sad side when developers start making games for console, you go back 20 years ago.
If you are a player like me, playing since like forever (doom) you are used to an smaller FOV. IT is exactly the same. The only advantage is a little more wide view, which don't affect your skill, if you suck you will suck at any FOV.
Anyway, don't worry, the game will have custom FOV optimization.
Just wanted to add a fact that I have to admit I never thought about until recently. Basically you can calculate the exact FOV that is right for your setup. The key is that the <b>FOV does depend on the actual physical width of you screen</b> (as in meters) and your <b>distance to the monitor</b>. Basically the triangle between you eye and the monitor surface should extend seamlessly into the virtual world. I didn't look around for any actual research study results but I think it's pretty obvious (sorry if it's too obvious ;).
I'll quote <a href="http://www.digital-flight.com/FOV/FOV_forgotten_factor.htm" target="_blank">this arcticle</a> which also has a <b>sketch</b> of the idea if you scroll down to the end!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The first step is to start thinking of your screen as a window onto a real world, just as in a real aircraft. Once you accept that then the rest is just simple geometry.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the bottom line is: A fixed FOV may have worked when everybody had a small 14" screen. <b>But with todays variety of monitor sizes there is no question that this should be adjustable.</b> At least in a reasonable range if one is worried about an unfair advantage for players that are turning the FOV to 170° (the theoretical maximum is of course 180° with the camera model used by current Engines/OpenGL/DirectX). But that would effectively prevent the use of a three monitor setup, which would be sad. You should try it with L4D, it's really immersive :)
That is true, and I see the good side of it, a more immerse experience which enhance the enjoyment. What I do not agree at all is that a bigger FOV will give an unfair advantage because is not true. There is a fact that you can focus only on a sector at a time and rapidly change the focus to other sector but for half a second everything is blurred.
The bigger the FOV the more you can see. The more you can see the more you need to process. The more you need to process the less focus on the big picture.
Advantage, you can see more at one time. Disadvantage, you have more things to focus on and can force you to focus on a tiny space.
Of course, with a FOV of 90 to 120 you can see and be focus on the big picture, but with Eyefinity you lose the focus on one side when you need to look to the other side. Yes, is half a second but that is enough for an skulk to bite your ass.
<!--quoteo(post=1814082:date=Dec 7 2010, 01:30 AM:name=PaiSand)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PaiSand @ Dec 7 2010, 01:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you are a player like me, playing since like forever (doom) you are used to an smaller FOV. IT is exactly the same. The only advantage is a little more wide view, which don't affect your skill, if you suck you will suck at any FOV.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think that has anything to do with it. I've been around since the Wolf3D era too, and I can't stand low FOV.
The fact of the matter is that for some people, lower FOV on a widescreen monitor has a physiological effect on the player.
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
yeah.. so FOV has stayed the same, how many people use widescreen monitors these days... which weren't around in those old Wolf3D and Doom days. FOV and aspect ratios are highly dependent on the physical screen space you have. Each person should be able to tweak it to suite them better, isn't that the reason we game on a PC over a console? The ability to adjust and tweak.
And there are PC games that are locked and a pain to adjust.. I mentioned before, most games off the Unreal3 engine.. Bioshock 2 and Mass Effect 2 are impossible for me to play. Fallout3 and NV needed tweaking. Wolfenstein 09 needed lots of tweaking to make it work.
Buy prescription glasses and problem solved. Kidding. If you have a physiological problem is better you go to a doctor to see what is the problem and if you can fix it, like with glasses, which is the most common issue for motion sickness, bad eyes. A few have other problems and the vast majority is just whinnying.
But like I already said, the game will have it, is just that right now is not a priority.
"No, you are wrong, I'm god and I have the absolute right word over everything." (come on!)
<!--quoteo(post=1814171:date=Dec 7 2010, 12:10 PM:name=PaiSand)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PaiSand @ Dec 7 2010, 12:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814171"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"No, you are wrong, I'm god and I have the absolute right word over everything." (come on!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> But I do have the right word on everything... :<
<!--quoteo(post=1814152:date=Dec 7 2010, 06:29 AM:name=PaiSand)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PaiSand @ Dec 7 2010, 06:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814152"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Advantage, you can see more at one time. Disadvantage, you have more things to focus on and can force you to focus on a tiny space.
Of course, with a FOV of 90 to 120 you can see and be focus on the big picture, but with Eyefinity you lose the focus on one side when you need to look to the other side. Yes, is half a second but that is enough for an skulk to bite your ass.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't seem to understand how good human peripheral vision is. You aren't really supposed to ever look around your monitor or triple monitor setup (your mouse is for looking around), but using your peripheral vision you can notice that skulk coming in at 50 degrees to your left, whereas, with a 90 degrees field of view, the skulk would be unnoticeable at 50 degrees to the left or right.
Of course a good sound setup will actually take care of anything out of your 90 degree view, unless the enemy has a way to sneak around quietly, and if they are moving that slow, then all the player has to do is look around from time to time. Even so, I really hate those spies in TF2 that get me from ~60 degrees to the left or right.
Ah, even the AI (for sneaking games, and not alert) was (and still is?) programmed to having only 90 degrees field of view, totally unrealistic, but that is how it is.
I will say one thing, "if you suck you will suck at any field of view" is correct. There is so much more you need to be good at, but if you are good, you can be that much more aware of your surroundings if you have a nice super wide screen setup.
SamW, you disagree stating the same thing I said: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Of course, with a FOV of 90 to 120 you can see and be focus on the big picture<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can notice movement on the peripheral sides but you can't clearly see it if it's still, is something almost unnoticeable. When you play a lot on a map your mind remember the shape on the structures in a particular room, and if something not fit you get an alert and that is why you can see it. It is an unconscious process. I don't want to give a lecture, so go and read about it, is full of papers related to this.
<!--quoteo(post=1814152:date=Dec 7 2010, 11:29 AM:name=PaiSand)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PaiSand @ Dec 7 2010, 11:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814152"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That is true, and I see the good side of it, a more immerse experience which enhance the enjoyment. What I do not agree at all is that a bigger FOV will give an unfair advantage because is not true.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That an advantage exists is undeniable. The amount of information available to the user with a wider FOV arc length is larger.
The advantage's size is, right now, unknown. Grumbling about how larger FOV's affect NS2 is baseless because we've never seen it in action in NS2.
If Eyefinity turns out to be too unfair and the community whines on the forums enough, Unknown Worlds Entertainment will just remove it. So no worries either way, if it gets implemented or not.
The developers should work on getting their vision realized before fiddling with its user interface. Who in the hell cares about Eyefinity if NS2 never gets shipped? No one, that's who. Eyefinity support comes at the end of beta or after, when NS2 is certainly shipping.
After that condition is met, it's up to Unknown Worlds Entertainment to put Eyefinity in. And they'll base their decision on our opinions. If everyone hates it, they won't bother. If a lot of people like it, they might consider adding it.
My opinion (which is subjective and cannot ever be "wrong" or "right"): Don't add Eyefinity ever.
<!--quoteo(post=1814279:date=Dec 7 2010, 07:03 PM:name=PaiSand)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PaiSand @ Dec 7 2010, 07:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->SamW, you disagree stating the same thing I said:
You can notice movement on the peripheral sides but you can't clearly see it if it's still, is something almost unnoticeable. When you play a lot on a map your mind remember the shape on the structures in a particular room, and if something not fit you get an alert and that is why you can see it. It is an unconscious process. I don't want to give a lecture, so go and read about it, is full of papers related to this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It seemed to me that you where saying that eye-finity and high field of view is disadvantageous because it would be distracting. However, as you say, it is an unconscious process. For that reason, I believe there are no downsides to having super wide screen. That, is due to our ability to process our peripheral with such great efficiency, there can be no doubt that having peripheral vision is advantageous (meaning hardware related advantage, which most agree is unfair). Basically, I agree on what wide screen gives to the user, but I come to a different conclusion :/.
Of course I can see the problem you seem to be hinting at. If a player is spastic and looks at everything that is irrelevant. However, that can not really be said to be a fault of using super wide screen setups, that is just the player being super spastic and unable to focus on actual threats.
<!--quoteo(post=1814304:date=Dec 8 2010, 03:24 AM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Dec 8 2010, 03:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814304"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That an advantage exists is undeniable. The amount of information available to the user with a wider FOV arc length is larger.
The advantage's size is, right now, unknown. Grumbling about how larger FOV's affect NS2 is baseless because we've never seen it in action in NS2.
If Eyefinity turns out to be too unfair and the community whines on the forums enough, Unknown Worlds Entertainment will just remove it. So no worries either way, if it gets implemented or not.
The developers should work on getting their vision realized before fiddling with its user interface. Who in the hell cares about Eyefinity if NS2 never gets shipped? No one, that's who. Eyefinity support comes at the end of beta or after, when NS2 is certainly shipping.
After that condition is met, it's up to Unknown Worlds Entertainment to put Eyefinity in. And they'll base their decision on our opinions. If everyone hates it, they won't bother. If a lot of people like it, they might consider adding it.
My opinion (which is subjective and cannot ever be "wrong" or "right"): Don't add Eyefinity ever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the thing: Eyefinity <i>already works</i>. My 6116x1080 resolution (includes bezel management) is already recognized by the game engine, it's just that the FOV isn't correct for my aspect ratio, which is why I created this thread in the first place. All Eyefinity does is make the gaming experience more immersive for the player. I've been using it since its release in November of last year (2009) and it has not transformed me into any kind of gaming god, it just makes playing my games more fun (unless the huge resolution kills my framerate, lol). As PaiSand said, you don't run around looking at your side monitors thinking "I can see EVERYTHING HAHAHA!" - you hardly ever look directly at them, just like you don't walk around all day trying to use your peripheral vision for anything other than what it is.
Multi-monitor gaming has been around for years, by the way. Before Nvidia Surround, before Eyefinity, there was the Matrox TripleHead2Go unit that would take a single input signal and output that signal across 3 monitors. That was when you needed to buy a separate device to make it work: now it's as simple as buying a 5770 or having a couple of GTX 260's.
I'll have to try using the "setfov <#VALUE>" method next time I load it up since I didn't try doing it that way last time. It's unfortunate that the command needs to be entered each time there is a camera-state change, since that only reminds me of the UT3 engine which lacks the ability to lock any FOV value other than the default FOV, but this is still beta so no worries yet.
<!--quoteo(post=1814501:date=Dec 9 2010, 02:47 AM:name=Aix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Aix @ Dec 9 2010, 02:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814501"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"setfov <#VALUE>"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just to make sure... You don't add the quotes or angle brackets (<>).
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1812741:date=Dec 3 2010, 04:29 AM:name=WhiteZero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WhiteZero @ Dec 3 2010, 04:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812741"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lets not get in to this argument again until the Devs make a comment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Aye, alas it appears not to be working captain! The lads and <b>lassies</b> just donae have the restraint!
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
Eyefinity works with most games, its not something that HAS to be added in by devs or anything. Its just a wider resolution spread across 3 screen, that is all. If you had 1 monitor that was just as wide as 3, it would be exactly the same thing. What Devs need to do is have the FOV and aspect ratios adjust accordingly, which should be done regardless in order to compensate for people with different ratios. 4:3, 6:9, 6:10 Of course HUD elements are a different matter, but I'm only talking about the actual game geometry. I can play company of heroes across my eyefinity setup, the game obviously wasn't designed with this in mind because the HUD is stretch across all three screens. All source engine games work very well with eyefinity, due to the fact that screen ratio and FOV settings adjust accordingly to the resolution set by the user. HUDs in source games can be adjusted/tweaked to fit on the center screen. This engine was developed well before multimonitor gaming took off.
Anyone who has played bioshock 1 or 2 on different setups would notice that the engine just crops the top and bottom of the screen to make it fit. If you played on a 4:3 screen, you'd only see half the weapon model.
This is something that should definitely be taken into consideration by the devs, its not an eyefinity only issue.
Hey all! I just recently joined the beta through the Holiday program. Has there been any updates on FOV or the massive zoom that happens when you enable higher than normal rezes? (Like nv surround or eyefinity)
I've been playing with some of the things people have been saying in this thread but the default zoom still appears to be there regardless of FOV settings. Also, it seems to default to a really odd res even when I hard set it to 1920x1200. Any idea on why the config file forces that odd res?
Comments
If you are a player like me, playing since like forever (doom) you are used to an smaller FOV. IT is exactly the same. The only advantage is a little more wide view, which don't affect your skill, if you suck you will suck at any FOV.
Anyway, don't worry, the game will have custom FOV optimization.
I'll quote <a href="http://www.digital-flight.com/FOV/FOV_forgotten_factor.htm" target="_blank">this arcticle</a> which also has a <b>sketch</b> of the idea if you scroll down to the end!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The first step is to start thinking of your screen as a window onto a real world, just as in a real aircraft. Once you accept that then the rest is just simple geometry.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the bottom line is: A fixed FOV may have worked when everybody had a small 14" screen. <b>But with todays variety of monitor sizes there is no question that this should be adjustable.</b> At least in a reasonable range if one is worried about an unfair advantage for players that are turning the FOV to 170° (the theoretical maximum is of course 180° with the camera model used by current Engines/OpenGL/DirectX). But that would effectively prevent the use of a three monitor setup, which would be sad. You should try it with L4D, it's really immersive :)
What I do not agree at all is that a bigger FOV will give an unfair advantage because is not true. There is a fact that you can focus only on a sector at a time and rapidly change the focus to other sector but for half a second everything is blurred.
The bigger the FOV the more you can see. The more you can see the more you need to process. The more you need to process the less focus on the big picture.
Advantage, you can see more at one time.
Disadvantage, you have more things to focus on and can force you to focus on a tiny space.
Of course, with a FOV of 90 to 120 you can see and be focus on the big picture, but with Eyefinity you lose the focus on one side when you need to look to the other side. Yes, is half a second but that is enough for an skulk to bite your ass.
I don't think that has anything to do with it.
I've been around since the Wolf3D era too, and I can't stand low FOV.
The fact of the matter is that for some people, lower FOV on a widescreen monitor has a physiological effect on the player.
And there are PC games that are locked and a pain to adjust.. I mentioned before, most games off the Unreal3 engine.. Bioshock 2 and Mass Effect 2 are impossible for me to play. Fallout3 and NV needed tweaking. Wolfenstein 09 needed lots of tweaking to make it work.
If you have a physiological problem is better you go to a doctor to see what is the problem and if you can fix it, like with glasses, which is the most common issue for motion sickness, bad eyes. A few have other problems and the vast majority is just whinnying.
But like I already said, the game will have it, is just that right now is not a priority.
"No, you are wrong, I'm god and I have the absolute right word over everything." (come on!)
But I do have the right word on everything... :<
Disadvantage, you have more things to focus on and can force you to focus on a tiny space.
Of course, with a FOV of 90 to 120 you can see and be focus on the big picture, but with Eyefinity you lose the focus on one side when you need to look to the other side. Yes, is half a second but that is enough for an skulk to bite your ass.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't seem to understand how good human peripheral vision is. You aren't really supposed to ever look around your monitor or triple monitor setup (your mouse is for looking around), but using your peripheral vision you can notice that skulk coming in at 50 degrees to your left, whereas, with a 90 degrees field of view, the skulk would be unnoticeable at 50 degrees to the left or right.
Of course a good sound setup will actually take care of anything out of your 90 degree view, unless the enemy has a way to sneak around quietly, and if they are moving that slow, then all the player has to do is look around from time to time.
Even so, I really hate those spies in TF2 that get me from ~60 degrees to the left or right.
Ah, even the AI (for sneaking games, and not alert) was (and still is?) programmed to having only 90 degrees field of view, totally unrealistic, but that is how it is.
I will say one thing, "if you suck you will suck at any field of view" is correct. There is so much more you need to be good at, but if you are good, you can be that much more aware of your surroundings if you have a nice super wide screen setup.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Of course, with a FOV of 90 to 120 you can see and be focus on the big picture<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can notice movement on the peripheral sides but you can't clearly see it if it's still, is something almost unnoticeable.
When you play a lot on a map your mind remember the shape on the structures in a particular room, and if something not fit you get an alert and that is why you can see it. It is an unconscious process.
I don't want to give a lecture, so go and read about it, is full of papers related to this.
What I do not agree at all is that a bigger FOV will give an unfair advantage because is not true.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That an advantage exists is undeniable. The amount of information available to the user with a wider FOV arc length is larger.
The advantage's size is, right now, unknown. Grumbling about how larger FOV's affect NS2 is baseless because we've never seen it in action in NS2.
If Eyefinity turns out to be too unfair and the community whines on the forums enough, Unknown Worlds Entertainment will just remove it. So no worries either way, if it gets implemented or not.
The developers should work on getting their vision realized before fiddling with its user interface. Who in the hell cares about Eyefinity if NS2 never gets shipped? No one, that's who. Eyefinity support comes at the end of beta or after, when NS2 is certainly shipping.
After that condition is met, it's up to Unknown Worlds Entertainment to put Eyefinity in. And they'll base their decision on our opinions. If everyone hates it, they won't bother. If a lot of people like it, they might consider adding it.
My opinion (which is subjective and cannot ever be "wrong" or "right"): Don't add Eyefinity ever.
You can notice movement on the peripheral sides but you can't clearly see it if it's still, is something almost unnoticeable.
When you play a lot on a map your mind remember the shape on the structures in a particular room, and if something not fit you get an alert and that is why you can see it. It is an unconscious process.
I don't want to give a lecture, so go and read about it, is full of papers related to this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seemed to me that you where saying that eye-finity and high field of view is disadvantageous because it would be distracting. However, as you say, it is an unconscious process. For that reason, I believe there are no downsides to having super wide screen. That, is due to our ability to process our peripheral with such great efficiency, there can be no doubt that having peripheral vision is advantageous (meaning hardware related advantage, which most agree is unfair). Basically, I agree on what wide screen gives to the user, but I come to a different conclusion :/.
Of course I can see the problem you seem to be hinting at. If a player is spastic and looks at everything that is irrelevant. However, that can not really be said to be a fault of using super wide screen setups, that is just the player being super spastic and unable to focus on actual threats.
The advantage's size is, right now, unknown. Grumbling about how larger FOV's affect NS2 is baseless because we've never seen it in action in NS2.
If Eyefinity turns out to be too unfair and the community whines on the forums enough, Unknown Worlds Entertainment will just remove it. So no worries either way, if it gets implemented or not.
The developers should work on getting their vision realized before fiddling with its user interface. Who in the hell cares about Eyefinity if NS2 never gets shipped? No one, that's who. Eyefinity support comes at the end of beta or after, when NS2 is certainly shipping.
After that condition is met, it's up to Unknown Worlds Entertainment to put Eyefinity in. And they'll base their decision on our opinions. If everyone hates it, they won't bother. If a lot of people like it, they might consider adding it.
My opinion (which is subjective and cannot ever be "wrong" or "right"): Don't add Eyefinity ever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the thing: Eyefinity <i>already works</i>. My 6116x1080 resolution (includes bezel management) is already recognized by the game engine, it's just that the FOV isn't correct for my aspect ratio, which is why I created this thread in the first place. All Eyefinity does is make the gaming experience more immersive for the player. I've been using it since its release in November of last year (2009) and it has not transformed me into any kind of gaming god, it just makes playing my games more fun (unless the huge resolution kills my framerate, lol). As PaiSand said, you don't run around looking at your side monitors thinking "I can see EVERYTHING HAHAHA!" - you hardly ever look directly at them, just like you don't walk around all day trying to use your peripheral vision for anything other than what it is.
Multi-monitor gaming has been around for years, by the way. Before Nvidia Surround, before Eyefinity, there was the Matrox TripleHead2Go unit that would take a single input signal and output that signal across 3 monitors. That was when you needed to buy a separate device to make it work: now it's as simple as buying a 5770 or having a couple of GTX 260's.
I'll have to try using the "setfov <#VALUE>" method next time I load it up since I didn't try doing it that way last time. It's unfortunate that the command needs to be entered each time there is a camera-state change, since that only reminds me of the UT3 engine which lacks the ability to lock any FOV value other than the default FOV, but this is still beta so no worries yet.
Just to make sure... You don't add the quotes or angle brackets (<>).
Aye, alas it appears not to be working captain! The lads and <b>lassies</b> just donae have the restraint!
Of course HUD elements are a different matter, but I'm only talking about the actual game geometry. I can play company of heroes across my eyefinity setup, the game obviously wasn't designed with this in mind because the HUD is stretch across all three screens.
All source engine games work very well with eyefinity, due to the fact that screen ratio and FOV settings adjust accordingly to the resolution set by the user. HUDs in source games can be adjusted/tweaked to fit on the center screen. This engine was developed well before multimonitor gaming took off.
Anyone who has played bioshock 1 or 2 on different setups would notice that the engine just crops the top and bottom of the screen to make it fit. If you played on a 4:3 screen, you'd only see half the weapon model.
This is something that should definitely be taken into consideration by the devs, its not an eyefinity only issue.
I've been playing with some of the things people have been saying in this thread but the default zoom still appears to be there regardless of FOV settings. Also, it seems to default to a really odd res even when I hard set it to 1920x1200. Any idea on why the config file forces that odd res?