NS2 Progress

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  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1841789:date=Apr 21 2011, 08:25 AM:name=Shilorius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shilorius @ Apr 21 2011, 08:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841789"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope I can reconfigure the Button because CTRL is my jumping Key.
    <----Arrowkey player<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Reconfiguring hotkeys is pretty minimal right now. I actually want to switch most of the comm keys (e.g. move scrolling from arrow keys to WASD and hotkeys from QWER to numpad) which doesn't seem possible right now.
  • juicejuice Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Members, Constellation
    (RDFG is the only way to play.)

    On the subject of binding, it would help with testing some performance stuff if there were a keyboard bind for turnleft/right like in HL1.
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
  • tyrael64tyrael64 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70551Members
  • MajinMajin Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16829Members, Constellation
    One thing that UWE needs to watch is the super balancing that the final version of NS1 ended up with. NS1 back in the beginning was way more fun than its final form IMO.
  • nightznightz Join Date: 2010-07-11 Member: 72317Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1841820:date=Apr 21 2011, 04:52 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ Apr 21 2011, 04:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841820"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not a matter of taste; the arrow keys are objectively awful. There's this big empty space all around the arrow keys; there's about 10 keys of empty space; that's 10 different actions you can't perform while using your other fingers to move around fluidly. You're handicaping yourself as badly as a WASD player who is missing a finger; stop doing that and invest a few hours to learn to play with WASD or ESDF.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Sorry but some people (the minority of them i guess) are LEFT handed. If you are not, don't disrespect others trying to push YOUR configurations down their throat.
  • MkilbrideMkilbride Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69952Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1841874:date=Apr 22 2011, 02:35 AM:name=Majin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Majin @ Apr 22 2011, 02:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841874"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One thing that UWE needs to watch is the super balancing that the final version of NS1 ended up with. NS1 back in the beginning was way more fun than its final form IMO.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Yeah, but the final game wasn't balanced either. They aren't very good at Balance, but then again, that was just a mod.

    Still, yeah, new patch, 300MBish, I'm excited!
  • KuBaNKuBaN Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8979Members, Constellation
    edited April 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1841907:date=Apr 22 2011, 01:55 AM:name=nightz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nightz @ Apr 22 2011, 01:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841907"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry but some people (the minority of them i guess) are LEFT handed. If you are not, don't disrespect others trying to push YOUR configurations down their throat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    What does being left handed have to do with arrow keys? Do you only type with your left hand? I'm left handed and I stopped playing with the arrow keys once my hands were big enough to reach the keys.
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-Bacillus+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Some top CS players seem to use arrow keys. I don't know the exact reasoning, but it seems at least viable if not even somehow preferred setup for some games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    CS has a simple control scheme and positively discourages moving while shooting. You can move like a cow in CS and it won't hurt much because the game isn't about skillful movement; the game is about aiming skill and mind games(figuring out what the opponent expects you to do, figuring out what strategy they will choose, spatial awareness, keeping track and coordinating with your team mates...).

    NS has many buttons that you need access to while moving freely. NS2 has slightly less, its a bit slower paced and has secondary fire replacing some of the frantic weapon-switching aliens would do continually while fighting in NS1, but there are still a lot of keys you want quick access to.

    <!--quoteo(post=1841907:date=Apr 22 2011, 01:55 AM:name=nightz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nightz @ Apr 22 2011, 01:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841907"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry but some people (the minority of them i guess) are LEFT handed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Doesn't matter; the block of "typewriter keys" is almost mirror symmetric around the vertical axis. You can use UHJK, IJKL; hell even 8456 on the numpad is preferable over the arrow keys.

    Using the arrow keys has no redeeming feature.

    <!--quoteo(post=1841907:date=Apr 22 2011, 01:55 AM:name=nightz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nightz @ Apr 22 2011, 01:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841907"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you are not, don't disrespect others trying to push YOUR configurations down their throat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Your ego is much too easily bruised if you can't stand some random nobody on the internets telling you that playing with the arrow keys is hamstringing yourself for no apparent reason.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1841937:date=Apr 22 2011, 11:39 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ Apr 22 2011, 11:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841937"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->CS has a simple control scheme and positively discourages moving while shooting. You can move like a cow in CS and it won't hurt much because the game isn't about skillful movement; the game is about aiming skill and mind games(figuring out what the opponent expects you to do, figuring out what strategy they will choose, spatial awareness, keeping track and coordinating with your team mates...).

    NS has many buttons that you need access to while moving freely. NS2 has slightly less, its a bit slower paced and has secondary fire replacing some of the frantic weapon-switching aliens would do continually while fighting in NS1, but there are still a lot of keys you want quick access to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think I use maybe 2-3 extra keys in NS compared to CS and it might even be beneficial to bind some of those in my mouse instead of the WASD-surroundings. Of course it's a personal preference, but I don't think think there's any bigger obstacle in finding a setup around the arrow keys if someone wants to do so (at least on smaller keyboards with tight layouts).

    Also, I'm pretty confident the pro level CS players are squeezing even the slightest bit of movement comfort out of their key layouts, so I can't see the issue there either, no matter if the movement isn't core gameplay.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Using the arrow keys has no redeeming feature.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The fact that CS players use it points otherwise. I have no clue whether the benefit applies to NS to any extend, but I think it pretty clearly points out that there's something people prefer to WASD. Without any more exact knowledge I can't go further, but I don't really like the idea of treating it as a strict no-go thingy as you're doing.
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    Arrow keys are more than likely only a benefit to left handers, equally as WASD or similar will be more comfortable and more accessible for right handers.

    I have seen a left hander user IJKL before as that then free's up the rest of his keyboard to be accessible, while obviously have the mouse left of his keyboard.
  • ShiloriusShilorius Join Date: 2011-01-14 Member: 77445Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited April 2011
    I had no Idea that playing with Arrowkeys will lead to such a huge Discussion O.o
    Anyway, I play with Arrowkeys since my first PC Game (back in the olden Days of Duke Nukem 3D, nobody thaught about playing with letter keys...).
    Maybe it's not "modern" to play with Arrows, but I can use 'em even as good as the other Players use WSAD or so.

    If you don't believe me, here is my Keyset:
    Arrows -> move
    CTRL -> jump
    Shift -> duck
    KP_ins -> sprint
    KP_end -> voice com
    End -> Flashlight/Alienvision
    Del -> radio 1
    pg-dn -> radio 2
    home -> gestate menu
    Return -> Use / build
    Mouse1 -> attack
    Mouse2 -> 2nd attack
    Mouse3 -> reload
    mousewheel -> change Weapons
    (But I can't duck with the Fade. Not sure if this is a bug due my keyset, or it is just not possible atm.)

    Okay, this is getting way off-topic, so BTT
    Turns out I misunderstood the whole "Skulk can sneak with CTRL" thing. I thaught it will be a new Feature, but it was, in fact, a Bug.
    See here:
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fixed Skulk not playing footsteps when pressing the crouch button (Thanks Motig)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    (changelog from the newspage)

    Edit: btw, I am right handed Person ;)
    Edit2: ..and I use a big keyboard: Logitechs G19
  • brechtosbrechtos Belgium Join Date: 2008-04-18 Member: 64100Members, Reinforced - Gold
    <!--quoteo(post=1841745:date=Apr 21 2011, 02:32 AM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Apr 21 2011, 02:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841745"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Holding CTRL as a skulk makes you run silent

    Dont you mean?:

    Holding SHIFT as a skulk makes you run silent

    ?

    As far as i can tell holding SHIFT already does this, i'm a bit confused about this one..
    Holding CTRL should make you ignore wallrunning as a skulk? And if you're on the wall you should drop down by pressing CTRL?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It's basicly the crouch function uses as a skulk that makes this happen and since the skulk doesn't really have a crouch... .
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1841909:date=Apr 21 2011, 11:04 PM:name=Mkilbride)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mkilbride @ Apr 21 2011, 11:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841909"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, but the final game wasn't balanced either. They aren't very good at Balance, but then again, that was just a mod.

    Still, yeah, new patch, 300MBish, I'm excited!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I give them the benefit of the doubt because proper balance is extremely hard and only a few games have ever achieved it (e.g. Starcraft). I think the biggest hurdle is having objective data on how changes affect gameplay. Any balance change will lead to tons of subjective comments on these forums about how said change went too far or not far enough. The key, as far as I can tell, is to have a good set of data from playtests that you can compare to the subjective comments on the forums, until you find a happy medium.
  • TigTig Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71674Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    <!--quoteo(post=1841959:date=Apr 22 2011, 08:24 AM:name=Shilorius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shilorius @ Apr 22 2011, 08:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841959"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have freakishly large hands and i like the room provided by the arrow keys, please try not to stare at my ham fists.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    weird.
  • ShiloriusShilorius Join Date: 2011-01-14 Member: 77445Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited April 2011
    Don't judge others hands by your own standards, Tig.
  • tyrael64tyrael64 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70551Members
    what is the solution for: Address problem when team has no extractors/harvesters ?
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1842409:date=Apr 25 2011, 07:38 PM:name=tyrael64)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tyrael64 @ Apr 25 2011, 07:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1842409"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what is the solution for: Address problem when team has no extractors/harvesters ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'm very interested in knowing that too.
  • PlasmaPlasma Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    I think the res for kills strategy is pretty neat.

    I recall in NS1 that it prevented unplanned rushes, because otherwise you would just "feed" the other team with resources from just being cannon fodder.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    i think the solution should be: Losing the game.
  • KuBaNKuBaN Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8979Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Zombie Marine<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Damn, I was hoping this would be a feature! "How'd I get to be sooo dead?"
  • AssassinTeddyAssassinTeddy Join Date: 2010-10-31 Member: 74694Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1842409:date=Apr 26 2011, 01:38 PM:name=tyrael64)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tyrael64 @ Apr 26 2011, 01:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1842409"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what is the solution for: Address problem when team has no extractors/harvesters ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href="http://bit.ly/hcQLli" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/hcQLli</a> -- theres a few of charlies ideas about it in there, not sure what they decided
  • KuBaNKuBaN Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8979Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Progress)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Progress)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->B173: Effective melee range of Fade/Skulk seems far too short while in pursuit of a marine<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Anyone know if this "fix" is in 175? Or perhaps "PATCH: tracer package for targeting/projectile/bullets/melee attacks" is part of it?
  • juicejuice Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Members, Constellation
    I believe it is related to <a href="http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/topics/melee_with_animation_delay_does_not_detect_hits_properly" target="_blank">this</a>.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1842664:date=Apr 27 2011, 01:46 AM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Apr 27 2011, 01:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1842664"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i think the solution should be: Losing the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This.

    Extractor/harvesters should be made harder to kill combined with something like all structures start to lose health and eventually die if you don't have any RTs.
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Extractors are not too easy to kill. They are perfect. You still have enough time to react to save them. Harvesters, on the other hand, can be destroyed much quicker (with shotguns) before you can even react. I've never seen a marine team be left with no extractors, but it's quite common for the alien side.
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Members
    edited May 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1844301:date=May 5 2011, 03:44 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ May 5 2011, 03:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844301"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Extractors are not too easy to kill. They are perfect. You still have enough time to react to save them. Harvesters, on the other hand, can be destroyed much quicker (with shotguns) before you can even react. I've never seen a marine team be left with no extractors, but it's quite common for the alien side.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Indeed. It doesn't make much sense for the Harvester to have such low health, now that it requires infestation to grow. It was okay before, when they could be placed anywhere similar to Extractors, and low health to "balance" out the fact they automatically grow.
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited May 2011
    Its only common for the alien side if the commander doesnt command(best via voice) and ppl dont care about the hive sight, or map.

    Aliens respawn and move faster.
    Infestation blocks marine building and is unstoppable even with flamethrowers. (the time flamethrower is researched most important places on the map are already infested, and since you need a full ft magazine to destroy a single patch infestation is replaced fast. IF the whole marine team equips with flamethrowers to seriously do something against infestation (and the tickrate is still in a playable region) fades and lerks just eat you.

    =>
    Performance(client + server), Infestation mechanic/spam and hydra spam are the biggest problems atm. If that is fixed, increasing harvester hp or some kind of upgrade could be viable.
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    I thought the problem was shotguns being everywhere a few minutes into the game? The gun is just as strong as in NS1, but more prevalent due to the new resource system...
  • Slickk-Slickk- Join Date: 2007-11-26 Member: 63019Members
    Liking the use of "PERFORMANCE:" and "PATCH" in the task tracker. Makes things even more transparent.
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