I disagree, Thempage. I like to compete and anything that promotes that will make me like the game more. I think we've managed to destill the argument. No reason to keep at it now is there..
<!--quoteo(post=1745059:date=Dec 28 2009, 09:24 PM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tjosan @ Dec 28 2009, 09:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745059"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I disagree, Thempage. I like to compete and anything that promotes that will make me like the game more. I think we've managed to destill the argument. No reason to keep at it now is there..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> PLAY 2 WIN mentality is the FOUNDATION of competitive play. The server I reg'd on in NS1 had a hardline stance towards unsportsmanlike behavior, clan stacking, spawncamping, etc. The vast majority of our bans for that were people in clans, to the extent where we had a reputation for doing just that, banning clans.
I can think of no other logical way someone who is at the 'top of their game' could improve their stats. You aren't going to be able to just magically aim faster than you already are. Stats don't improve the ability of professional athletes to play, nothing but hard work and practice can do that, so that's pretty much the most definitive proof in the world we need that stats do not in any way whatsoever affect your ability to 'get better'. That's only possible by changing to a stat-based mentality.
Temphage is absolutely right. Stats have nothing to do with competition. You love competition ? just create your team and challenges others in NS League. With the Win/losses (of the team, not the player) registered. Give some recorded games available, to replay officials games and that's it. You have the best and healthy competition mode that can exist.
<!--quoteo(post=1745019:date=Dec 28 2009, 07:18 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Dec 28 2009, 07:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745019"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2 will be a casual game as well as hardcore, for what we know from every developer blog bit. I don't think any of us has a hand in deciding what it will be in otherwise, so saying it "should" have something or other is a non-starter, nevermind presumptuous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Incompatible. You'd need two starkly different game types (such as NS1's "combat") to appease both crowds in which case my point still stands: no achievements in Vanilla ("hardcore") NS2. Your second sentence should have stopped at the third word. This forum is about thinking, debating, and deciding. If you don't think we have a hand in that, clearly you shouldn't be here.
<!--quoteo(post=1745058:date=Dec 29 2009, 12:08 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Dec 29 2009, 12:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So yes, the <u>only way</u> stats could improve anyone is by <b>promoting stat whoring</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ignoring such things as suggesting whether you should concentrate on improving your aim, defense, not shooting teammates or actually getting kills based on stats of how much you do of one or the other kind, yes, the only way.
<!--quoteo(post=1745066:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:12 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Dec 29 2009, 01:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745066"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Incompatible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is one of the Divine Commandments of gaming - "easy to learn, hard to master" - and the very principle every single most successful game to date has been directly based on: Mario, Doom, Quake, Counter-Strike, Diablo, WoW, Star Craft, Half-Life, the original NS, and many more... It's also the directly expressed aim of the developers.
"Hard" doesn't mean "Impossible". As long as your suggested solution has no method differentiating between "pros" and "nubs", it's not feasible, however.
<!--quoteo(post=1745066:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:12 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Dec 29 2009, 01:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745066"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your second sentence should have stopped at the third word. This forum is about thinking, debating, and deciding. If you don't think we have a hand in that, clearly you shouldn't be here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And yet you're not thinking, debating, or deciding: you're posting baseless personal opinion presented as fact and then refuse to back it up, think about it, debate it, or acknowledge your mistakes.
And then you throw insults and tell people to get out when they disagree.
What I said was, you have no hand in deciding what the game "should" be, which is why you should back up your opinion instead of presenting it as fact and expect it to be accepted as such, because it's not. It would also help if you'd be even the least bit co-operative, or at least stop insulting anyone who tries to talk back to you.
Comments
PLAY 2 WIN mentality is the FOUNDATION of competitive play. The server I reg'd on in NS1 had a hardline stance towards unsportsmanlike behavior, clan stacking, spawncamping, etc. The vast majority of our bans for that were people in clans, to the extent where we had a reputation for doing just that, banning clans.
I can think of no other logical way someone who is at the 'top of their game' could improve their stats. You aren't going to be able to just magically aim faster than you already are. Stats don't improve the ability of professional athletes to play, nothing but hard work and practice can do that, so that's pretty much the most definitive proof in the world we need that stats do not in any way whatsoever affect your ability to 'get better'. That's only possible by changing to a stat-based mentality.
Stats have nothing to do with competition.
You love competition ? just create your team and challenges others in NS League. With the Win/losses (of the team, not the player) registered.
Give some recorded games available, to replay officials games and that's it. You have the best and healthy competition mode that can exist.
Incompatible. You'd need two starkly different game types (such as NS1's "combat") to appease both crowds in which case my point still stands: no achievements in Vanilla ("hardcore") NS2. Your second sentence should have stopped at the third word. This forum is about thinking, debating, and deciding. If you don't think we have a hand in that, clearly you shouldn't be here.
-_-
Ignoring such things as suggesting whether you should concentrate on improving your aim, defense, not shooting teammates or actually getting kills based on stats of how much you do of one or the other kind, yes, the only way.
<!--quoteo(post=1745066:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:12 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Dec 29 2009, 01:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745066"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Incompatible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is one of the Divine Commandments of gaming - "easy to learn, hard to master" - and the very principle every single most successful game to date has been directly based on: Mario, Doom, Quake, Counter-Strike, Diablo, WoW, Star Craft, Half-Life, the original NS, and many more... It's also the directly expressed aim of the developers.
"Hard" doesn't mean "Impossible". As long as your suggested solution has no method differentiating between "pros" and "nubs", it's not feasible, however.
<!--quoteo(post=1745066:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:12 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Dec 29 2009, 01:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745066"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your second sentence should have stopped at the third word. This forum is about thinking, debating, and deciding. If you don't think we have a hand in that, clearly you shouldn't be here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yet you're not thinking, debating, or deciding: you're posting baseless personal opinion presented as fact and then refuse to back it up, think about it, debate it, or acknowledge your mistakes.
And then you throw insults and tell people to get out when they disagree.
What I said was, you have no hand in deciding what the game "should" be, which is why you should back up your opinion instead of presenting it as fact and expect it to be accepted as such, because it's not. It would also help if you'd be even the least bit co-operative, or at least stop insulting anyone who tries to talk back to you.