Damage Differences in NS2?

FuNiOnZ

Just wondering if theres going to be any dramatic change in the damage in NS2. The original had a bit of an arcadey feel when it came to damage, and i'm just wondering if the sequel will ramp it up a bit in terms of realism.

-Diesel-

<!--quoteo(post=1729489:date=Sep 28 2009, 08:56 PM:name=FuNiOnZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FuNiOnZ @ Sep 28 2009, 08:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729489"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just wondering if theres going to be any dramatic change in the damage in NS2. The original had a bit of an arcadey feel when it came to damage, and i'm just wondering if the sequel will ramp it up a bit in terms of realism.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I hope so.

homicide

How many bullets does it take to kill an Onos in real life?

FuNiOnZ

<!--quoteo(post=1729493:date=Sep 28 2009, 11:20 PM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Sep 28 2009, 11:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How many bullets does it take to kill an Onos in real life?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I guess compare and contrast with how many it would take to kill a rhino or elephant.

NeoSniper

Are you talking about the damage numbers or the damage effects?


What do you mean by arcadey feel in the case of the numbers?

Invader_Scoot

<!--quoteo(post=1729493:date=Sep 28 2009, 10:20 PM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Sep 28 2009, 10:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How many bullets does it take to kill an Onos in real life?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah this guy has got the right idea here. There really is no way to compare a game like NS2 to anything in real life, and if there was, I wouldn't really want it anyway. For a game based on the laws of the actual world we have things like Call of Duty (which I am not a fan of).

Natural Selection 2 is a game featuring space marines fighting alien lifeforms of who knows what origin and organic makeup. And can the developers really somehow sit there with a pistol and start shooting down a rhino for onos? Dogs for skulks? That kind of balance would be poor anyway.

Tha

what he means is will it take a whole clip of both your pistol and light machine gun to kill a fade(human sized enemy)
or will it take roughly around 15-30 bullets but make it harder to actually hit it to balance it up(recoil,spread etc)

iKossu

If we are to go down this road... I find it funny that pistol is twice as deadly as LMG and much more accurate as well. Not to mention HMG which is just as deadly as pistol! That's not realistic at all but I don't mind. Imo, that's why people play video games: to be somewhere else doing things they can't do in real life.

MuYeah

It's also an RTS. Health/damage of units is an integral way of balancing them based on how useful they should be for their resource cost, counters etc. Not based on "hey, the onos looks like a rhino maybe it should die in as many bullets as one!" Hey guess what: they're aliens, the devs can say they've got mega-regeneration power and the only way to kill them is to remove the brain stem (which is conveniently found in the foot) to back up their gameplay decisions for all I care.

a_civilian

<!--quoteo(post=1729547:date=Sep 29 2009, 04:12 AM:name=KonserniJohtaja)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KonserniJohtaja @ Sep 29 2009, 04:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729547"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If we are to go down this road... I find it funny that pistol is twice as deadly as LMG and much more accurate as well. Not to mention HMG which is just as deadly as pistol! That's not realistic at all but I don't mind. Imo, that's why people play video games: to be somewhere else doing things they can't do in real life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comparing damage per attack without considering firing rate is not particularly revealing. The knife is the most powerful inertial weapon in the marine arsenal!

iKossu

Which is why I suggest that knife should be as useless as the fist in Space Hulk. It's way too powerful, especially against creatures.

a_civilian

LMG does ~167 damage/second, pistol does up to 200, shotgun does ~258, HMG does ~333, and the knife does 90 (before upgrades, which don't affect knife).

aNytiMe

<!--quoteo(post=1729624:date=Sep 29 2009, 06:55 PM:name=KonserniJohtaja)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KonserniJohtaja @ Sep 29 2009, 06:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729624"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which is why I suggest that knife should be as useless as the fist in Space Hulk. It's way too powerful, especially against creatures.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do you think so? I use my knife whenever I can and it barely makes up 1% of my frags.

Besides, you couldn't really have <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uirhq5qTQ8s" target="_blank">this</a> with a weaker knife.

-Diesel-

<!--quoteo(post=1729541:date=Sep 29 2009, 02:09 AM:name=Tha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tha @ Sep 29 2009, 02:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what he means is will it take a whole clip of both your pistol and light machine gun to kill a fade(human sized enemy)
or will it take roughly around 15-30 bullets but make it harder to actually hit it to balance it up(recoil,spread etc)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Recoil and just a touch of spread would be interesting.

It would surely make the game different and possibly more exciting.


And keep in mind that the marines are using MGs now...

So pretty much they are running around with SAWs that have smaller clips.

I think it should be a balance between something believable and challenging for both sides.


Onos should take a ###### load of gun fire... it is like a friggen elephant with metal plates on it!

Opprobrious

<!--quoteo(post=1729624:date=Sep 29 2009, 01:55 PM:name=KonserniJohtaja)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KonserniJohtaja @ Sep 29 2009, 01:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729624"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which is why I suggest that knife should be as useless as the fist in Space Hulk. It's way too powerful, especially against creatures.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

LOL

FuNiOnZ

I think people took what I said a little too out of context here. I didn't mean it in terms of making it pure realism, obviously the game is about aliens and not at all anchored in reality. My suggestion was based more around the fact that certain things seem like they should be more deadly, and have their damage reflected in that. Take what he said about the fade, it's about what, 7-8 feet tall, has razor sharp sickles for hands and yet it takes more than one whack to take down a marine. I could see a heavy marine surviving a couple slices, but a normal marine armor or not is going to be missing a limb/head. Basically I want to know if element of suprise will play more of a factor this time around. One too many times have we all been sneaking around as alien and had some marine that we got the first hit on, bunnyhop spin 180 degrees and kill us with 2 shots of a shotgun.

meh`

Realism is effectively ruining video games, please leave it out of NS2. I mean its space marines vs aliens ffs.

Tha

<!--quoteo(post=1729630:date=Sep 30 2009, 05:05 AM:name=-Diesel-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (-Diesel- @ Sep 30 2009, 05:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729630"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Onos should take a ###### load of gun fire... it is like a friggen elephant with metal plates on it!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

gotta agree, its not just a rhino, its not just a dog sized enemy, its not just a fat mini hippo thing, they have had 4 years of rapid evolution, they have evolved plates almost everywhere on thier body almost made of metal. and they do have regenerative powers.

FuNiOnZ

<!--quoteo(post=1729733:date=Sep 30 2009, 12:31 AM:name=meh`)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meh` @ Sep 30 2009, 12:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729733"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Realism is effectively ruining video games, please leave it out of NS2. I mean its space marines vs aliens ffs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If by ruining you mean improving, then I agree completely. I've always been one for realism I guess, it stems out of the fact that <b>some</b> of us have actually used a weapon before, and know the capabilities of it. I'm not saying these aliens aren't tough and can take a beating, i'm just saying that in whatever universe they designed these aliens in, that the humans have somewhat adapted their technology to combat the threat. Are they using the same buck shot we use today in their future shotgun? I'd hope to hell not, not when you're dealing with a space rhino with armor plating. Should an onos be easy to kill? Of course not. My question was mainly directed at the aliens side of things. If a skulk sneaks up on a human and sinks his teeth into his head, should that not kill/incapacitate him? Or does it take 3-4 bites to the skull to get the point across?

Locational damage (which I think has already been discussed) along with bleeding would be nice, following a glowing trail of blood with hive vision on would be cool, but im sure the combat kids will complain :P

homicide

The fact that video games even TRY to be realistic is depressing.

MuYeah

<!--quoteo(post=1729749:date=Sep 30 2009, 07:03 AM:name=FuNiOnZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FuNiOnZ @ Sep 30 2009, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729749"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it stems out of the fact that <b>some</b> of us have actually used a weapon before, and know the capabilities of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

lol

meh`

<!--quoteo(post=1729749:date=Sep 30 2009, 12:03 AM:name=FuNiOnZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FuNiOnZ @ Sep 30 2009, 12:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729749"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If by ruining you mean improving, then I agree completely. I've always been one for realism I guess, it stems out of the fact that <b>some</b> of us have actually used a weapon before, and know the capabilities of it. I'm not saying these aliens aren't tough and can take a beating, i'm just saying that in whatever universe they designed these aliens in, that the humans have somewhat adapted their technology to combat the threat. Are they using the same buck shot we use today in their future shotgun? I'd hope to hell not, not when you're dealing with a space rhino with armor plating. Should an onos be easy to kill? Of course not. My question was mainly directed at the aliens side of things. If a skulk sneaks up on a human and sinks his teeth into his head, should that not kill/incapacitate him? Or does it take 3-4 bites to the skull to get the point across?

Locational damage (which I think has already been discussed) along with bleeding would be nice, following a glowing trail of blood with hive vision on would be cool, but im sure the combat kids will complain :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Well <b>most</b> of us don't care if you've used a weapon before, it's a video game it is suppose to be fun not a combat simulator and from what I've seen 9 times out of 10 realism takes away from the gameplay. And to answer your question about the alien side of things, nanites. But seriously there is a ton of armor on that marine (maybe literally), and honestly if you want realism I doubt some enamel teeth could even get close to biting through that armor, so I say 3 to 4 is a lot more realistic than one.

Bacillus

<!--quoteo(post=1729749:date=Sep 30 2009, 07:03 AM:name=FuNiOnZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FuNiOnZ @ Sep 30 2009, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729749"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If by ruining you mean improving, then I agree completely. I've always been one for realism I guess, it stems out of the fact that <b>some</b> of us have actually used a weapon before, and know the capabilities of it. I'm not saying these aliens aren't tough and can take a beating, i'm just saying that in whatever universe they designed these aliens in, that the humans have somewhat adapted their technology to combat the threat. Are they using the same buck shot we use today in their future shotgun? I'd hope to hell not, not when you're dealing with a space rhino with armor plating. Should an onos be easy to kill? Of course not. My question was mainly directed at the aliens side of things. If a skulk sneaks up on a human and sinks his teeth into his head, should that not kill/incapacitate him? Or does it take 3-4 bites to the skull to get the point across?

Locational damage (which I think has already been discussed) along with bleeding would be nice, following a glowing trail of blood with hive vision on would be cool, but im sure the combat kids will complain :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How did you end up playing NS in the first place then? It has never been realistic or instakill oriented. CS, CoD, DoD, Red Orchestra and Operation Flashpoint all seem better picks for your taste than NS ever has been.

Of course nothing wrong in playing and liking NS, but it still seems like you're asking NS to be something that it intentionally hasn't been.

Tha

<!--quoteo(post=1729763:date=Sep 30 2009, 07:05 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Sep 30 2009, 07:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729763"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It has never been realistic or instakill oriented<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Shotguns.

Focus.

2 fairly big chunks of the game lead to instakill sometimes.

Bacillus

<!--quoteo(post=1729767:date=Sep 30 2009, 10:10 AM:name=Tha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tha @ Sep 30 2009, 10:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729767"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Shotguns.

Focus.

2 fairly big chunks of the game lead to instakill sometimes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't call the game instakill oriented based on those. They are the extreme cases, highest damage hitting the weakest target at limited range. Sure, they are in the game, but just as a few elements among the others. It's not like CS or DoD where you can get practically instakilled from any range at any point of the game.

locallyunscene

With skulks having more health I'd say it's going in the other direction.

-Diesel-

<!--quoteo(post=1729751:date=Sep 30 2009, 02:34 AM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Sep 30 2009, 02:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729751"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fact that video games even TRY to be realistic is depressing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


No it's not.

Realism = Fun

tjosan

I never understood why making shooting people more realistic ever made it more fun. Wow.

-Diesel-

<!--quoteo(post=1729860:date=Sep 30 2009, 02:09 PM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tjosan @ Sep 30 2009, 02:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729860"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never understood why making shooting people more realistic ever made it more fun. Wow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yeah you are right.

Lets make confetti fly out instead of blood and the weapons can be water guns. Lets have the marine armor be pink and then have them ride magical unicorns.


Good idea, HEY SCOTT Bring me that nobel prize for Mr tjosan here.. He surely deserves it.

locallyunscene

<!--quoteo(post=1729862:date=Sep 30 2009, 03:15 PM:name=-Diesel-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (-Diesel- @ Sep 30 2009, 03:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729862"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah you are right.

Lets make confetti fly out instead of blood and the weapons can be water guns. Lets have the marine armor be pink and then have them ride magical unicorns.


Good idea, HEY SCOTT Bring me that nobel prize for Mr tjosan here.. He surely deserves it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, let's start a flame war when you enjoy different game aspects from someone else. Obvious troll is obvious.

Don't knock confetti for blood either. I really enjoy confetti mod in TF2. I also like the regular gory death animations. Neither are realistic, but they both fit the style of the game.

Overall, NS2 will probably not be as "cartoon-y" as UT and Quake, but it will not be close to CS or Rainbow Six either.

FuNiOnZ

<!--quoteo(post=1729763:date=Sep 30 2009, 05:05 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Sep 30 2009, 05:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729763"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How did you end up playing NS in the first place then? It has never been realistic or instakill oriented. CS, CoD, DoD, Red Orchestra and Operation Flashpoint all seem better picks for your taste than NS ever has been.

Of course nothing wrong in playing and liking NS, but it still seems like you're asking NS to be something that it intentionally hasn't been.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It was tactics based and slower paced than most, at least thats the way it used to be. It kinda turned into a Zerg rush strategy once CO came out. As for your game picks, OPF I didn't care for, Red Orchestra I own and is good, but CS COD & DoD are abominations. They shouldn't be even in the same sentence as realism. I know that NS hasn't been about absolute realism, i'm just asking if in NS2 if there will be more of a threat when it comes to first strike opportunities (i.e. damage bonus when fade strikes from behind)