...way too many threads in the NS2 General Forum are becoming awful.
todd1Ok, you are not comprehending what a pre-order is. Your example of delivering goods is not analogous to the situation. It would be relevant if you paid money for NS2 after it's release and didn't get anything. You didn't pay for the actual product, you paid for the promise of the product when its finished. They are in no way obligated to actually deliver it within a certain time span. How long have you been buying games for?
They could simply close up shop and run with the money if they want to, but that would destroy their reputation and it's not something they would want to drag around for the rest of their careers.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1733688:date=Oct 23 2009, 01:37 PM:name=RikkAndrsn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RikkAndrsn @ Oct 23 2009, 01:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733688"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm going to keep posting this until people stop throwing out other people's arguments with arguments that are based on arguments that are even more poorly founded. Read that twice, it's gramatically correct.
Also, the guy from Alaska who doesn't sleep won this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please stop. You're not a moderator. It's not funny. It's irrelevant. And it's annoying. I don't think <b>Thaldarin</b>'s argument is poorly founded at all. And as <b>Sirot</b> noted comparing a preorder to fruit is a poor metaphor because UWE is not withholding goods, but creating goods. A preorder is more like buying a cropshare in a orchard to get fruit once it is harvested, if you want to persist with the fruit analogy. Disagree with words forming actual points, not lolcats.
<!--quoteo(post=1733690:date=Oct 23 2009, 12:02 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Oct 23 2009, 12:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A preorder is more like buying a cropshare in a orchard to get fruit once it is harvested, if you want to persist with the fruit analogy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Also, Here's a question for yaz: Can anyone who has publically defended UWE in this thread also confirm that they have indeed bought ns2 with money paid for from your own pocket(Not daddy's pocket, or your boyfriend/girlfriend), and if so, why in god's name would you ever defend them? They took your cash and gave you nothing so far. If i come to your house, take your stuff and beat you up, maybe even pork your girlfriend, would you thank me afterwards and give me a pat on the back?"
Thats funny the way you are upset you actually owe UWE some time with your girlfriend and being beaten up.
Ofcourse it's not quite nice to do this right now to us (no infos beside the twitter so short before the "announced" release date), but the way I see it they will work their backs off to get as much of it done as possible to release something asap. And I would hardly doubt that they stole our money ... we will get something in return.
One thing that people are forgetting about here is that most of us members on this forum have been with Natural Selection and its world a very, very long time. Many of us created custom content, joined clans, ran servers, all just because we loved the original game much more than the average player.
I do believe then that it is those of us who primarily paid for the $40 special edition. And those of us are also going to be the least critical of a rough alpha. We love the game, love the developers, and know these things take time, but the fact is that we were told we would probably already have at least an alpha and the tools by now. No matter what is handed to me as an alpha I will be happy, I just don't respect the fact that we were lied to.
Not to mention that I have personally been a walking advertisement for Natural Selection 2 amongst my friends and other online boards for a very long time now.
kudos to the dev team. been loving Natural Selection since it was introduced as a mod for half life. I just sent them some folding money for all the work they have been doing.
Thanks guys! I can't wait to see it when you are ready to release. use the money to get yourselves a beer! CHEERS!
<!--quoteo(post=1733731:date=Oct 23 2009, 09:01 PM:name=JohnCarterofMars)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnCarterofMars @ Oct 23 2009, 09:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733731"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->kudos to the dev team. been loving Natural Selection since it was introduced as a mod for half life. I just sent them some folding money for all the work they have been doing.
Thanks guys! I can't wait to see it when you are ready to release. use the money to get yourselves a beer! CHEERS!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This guy is like a breath of fresh air in a this smoggy mess of a thread :D
There's a lot of people in this thread which show just how the decline in the community has come. Insults lashed about, "lolcats", it's like watching children squabble over who gets Windows 7 ... I mean NS2 first :p
<!--quoteo(post=1733635:date=Oct 23 2009, 11:38 PM:name=todd1Ok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (todd1Ok @ Oct 23 2009, 11:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733635"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, Here's a question for yaz: Can anyone who has publically defended UWE in this thread also confirm that they have indeed bought ns2 with money paid for from your own pocket(Not daddy's pocket, or your boyfriend/girlfriend), and if so, why in god's name would you ever defend them? They took your cash and gave you nothing so far. If i come to your house, take your stuff and beat you up, maybe even pork your girlfriend, would you thank me afterwards and give me a pat on the back?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I bought the game out of my own pocket and I think the key difference is I have patience. The only advice I can give you is try a hobby or sport. Otherwise ask for a refund.
I wish they release the alpha like they release the first NS1 Version 1.0. This was on October 31, 2002, but i think they need to do a lot, so they move the date to Xmas? I think end of this year they will release the alpha. Or maybe the Release is like beta 3.2 (was on November 21, 2006). Who knows
I've just completed a psychology thesis on the ability of a person to delay gratification and their more long-term personality outcomes, and here's an interesting finding.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Boys who delayed gratification tended to be independently and consistently described as deliberative, attentive and able to concentrate, reasonable, reserved, cooperative, and generally manifesting an ability to modulate motivational and emotional impulse. Boys who did not delay gratification, by contrast, were irritable, restless and fidgety, aggressive, and generally not self-controlled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
..... Interesting.
(Source: Funder, D., Block, J., & Block, J. (1983). Delay of gratification: Some longitudinal personality correlates. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 1983, 44(6), 1198-1213. )
I'm convinced that the devs are just sitting around a table, counting all the money they screwed out of random people on the internet over and over, cackling maniacally.
I mean ... thats the only logical explanation, right?
or .. or ...
They've actually had a RC-5 for years now, they just think its funny to read the forums and laugh at the people whining about not having an alpha yet.
I still seriously don't know what people complaining about this expect the devs to do. Do you <b>really</b> need them to come to the forums and say "It's not ready yet"? I mean ... really? You guys just want a virtual pat on the head and a "there there, it will be ok" from a dev to ease your mind?
Here, pretend this is a comment from a dev:
"We're sorry, the alpha is just not ready yet. We're working as hard as we can to get it to you guys and the moment it's ready, you will know. We don't have a current release date for it yet, but we're working as fast as we can. We're excited for you to start playing and provide feedback as you are! Thanks!"
If they had something for us to play, we would be playing it. Do you think they have an alpha release they're just not giving us? For what reason?
Sometimes it feels just like FOX News here (at least what Europeans think of FOX News ...) everyone is crying and complaining and fearmongering ... funny isn't it. Maybe just read a good newspaper instead of listening to that stuff and you also might change your attitude towards whats happening here. (If you are offended now, I only meant it a little)
I'm pretty sure you don't expect the devs to feed the trolls all by themselves, thats why we have a community here who really cares about that poor little creatures.
We won't let you starve to death, we will feed you, we help you through these hard times, you are not alone.
<!--quoteo(post=1733887:date=Oct 24 2009, 09:07 PM:name=1mannARMEE)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (1mannARMEE @ Oct 24 2009, 09:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733887"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->everyone is crying and complaining and fearmongering<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sounds like all the US 24 hour news networks.
As an American I must whole heartedly agree :P FOX news = biggest fearmongering network around...too bad 85% of America actually watches that malarkey and believes it :\ Anyways yeah, guys stop being FOX and be realistic, the Devs are only human (albeit deity like :P) and they want to get us the game as soon as they can! The less we rush them, the better the game will be.
<!--quoteo(post=1733877:date=Oct 24 2009, 11:34 PM:name=Geezer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geezer @ Oct 24 2009, 11:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733877"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've just completed a psychology thesis on the ability of a person to delay gratification and their more long-term personality outcomes, and here's an interesting finding.
..... Interesting.
(Source: Funder, D., Block, J., & Block, J. (1983). Delay of gratification: Some longitudinal personality correlates. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 1983, 44(6), 1198-1213. )<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This sounds on par with some random news report I read that said that kids who have chocolate every day will tend to grow up to be more irritable, impatient, etc
<!--quoteo(post=1733906:date=Oct 25 2009, 02:54 PM:name=kast)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kast @ Oct 25 2009, 02:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733906"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i don't go to your job and hustle you up when my big mac isn't ready exactly when i want it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Worst analogy of the day goes to this guy! You may as well be going "GO MAKE YOUR OWN GAME IF YOU DONT LIKE IT@!@".
I used to make Big Macs 3 years ago, doing one is fine, doing a run (4) is fine, doing an illegal run (6) is fine. Doing a whole kitchen (16) is not fine.
This has nothing to do with the discussion nor strengthens the analogy further, although I guess it tells you if you put your mind to making burgers hard enough, you can do it.
I'm really looking forward to this game but they've just been making me mad. I know games like many things get delayed but I imagined summer 2009 was a delay considering how long we've waited. I just hope by next week they will come out with some huge news (alpha, beta, or game release date) or I will be pissed along with everyone else I assume.
I ordered NS2 as soon as I saw the 'Preorders available' at the end of the trailer, a quick look at the editions and it was obvious which one to buy, I want those map making tools so much. This was out of my own money too, working at a depressing store to save up to go to Canada for five months.
I'm slightly dissapointed now I've only got one month left in this awesome country and that the map making tools arn't out, my plan was to make an NS2 map with all the free time I've got here. I understand though, you can't just make a few models and write a bit of code then slap it all together. Hell even making a map can take me a few months, it's a very time consuming process and it's easy to lose track of the time.
These guys know what they're doing, I tried my hand at mods a few years a go and NS is the best example of how to make one, release bit by bit. They can't do that here though, they need a solid game that's as perfected as they can get it on release, which you can imagine is a huge amount of work and the source of many a headache. Getting emotional over this is futile, threatening to cancel preorders isn't going to get you the game either. All you have to do is wait, let them do all the hard work and stressing.
I'm pretty sure they are going to have a nice surprise for us on Oct 31... I'm almost certain it's not Alpha. They still haven't revealed the Lerk or Fade! But something good always happen when they get quiet! just like the calm before the storm!
But i will say one thing... if it's an animation for a gorgey dressed up like superman doing the belly slide... I will love the dev forever.
I'm in the process of moving to another area and I plan to pre-order a copy of NS2 once we're all settled in. I played NS(1) on the ol' Halflife (1) and it took up sooo many hours of my life lol GOOD times though. Very very addicting game.. Strategy in REAL time AND Shoot'em up style? Uhm, yes please! Starcraft and Counter Strike had a baby and this is it! Don't turn your back on them just because of being late, they have a LOT of work to do. :) Support them so they can get these things done!
<!--quoteo(post=1733996:date=Oct 25 2009, 06:49 PM:name=Italianmagic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Italianmagic @ Oct 25 2009, 06:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733996"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm pretty sure they are going to have a nice surprise for us on Oct 31... I'm almost certain it's not Alpha.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How dare you say this! Always believe man! Let's hope for an Alpha. If not, then we shall keep waiting! As long as the game gets the best development attention. :)
Comments
todd1Ok, you are not comprehending what a pre-order is. Your example of delivering goods is not analogous to the situation. It would be relevant if you paid money for NS2 after it's release and didn't get anything. You didn't pay for the actual product, you paid for the promise of the product when its finished. They are in no way obligated to actually deliver it within a certain time span. How long have you been buying games for?
They could simply close up shop and run with the money if they want to, but that would destroy their reputation and it's not something they would want to drag around for the rest of their careers.
EDIT: Grammar woes.
Also, the guy from Alaska who doesn't sleep won this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please stop. You're not a moderator. It's not funny. It's irrelevant. And it's annoying. I don't think <b>Thaldarin</b>'s argument is poorly founded at all. And as <b>Sirot</b> noted comparing a preorder to fruit is a poor metaphor because UWE is not withholding goods, but creating goods. A preorder is more like buying a cropshare in a orchard to get fruit once it is harvested, if you want to persist with the fruit analogy. Disagree with words forming actual points, not lolcats.
beat me to it
Thats funny the way you are upset you actually owe UWE some time with your girlfriend and being beaten up.
Ofcourse it's not quite nice to do this right now to us (no infos beside the twitter so short before the "announced" release date), but the way I see it they will work their backs off to get as much of it done as possible to release something asap. And I would hardly doubt that they stole our money ... we will get something in return.
I do believe then that it is those of us who primarily paid for the $40 special edition. And those of us are also going to be the least critical of a rough alpha. We love the game, love the developers, and know these things take time, but the fact is that we were told we would probably already have at least an alpha and the tools by now. No matter what is handed to me as an alpha I will be happy, I just don't respect the fact that we were lied to.
Not to mention that I have personally been a walking advertisement for Natural Selection 2 amongst my friends and other online boards for a very long time now.
Thanks guys! I can't wait to see it when you are ready to release. use the money to get yourselves a beer! CHEERS!
Thanks guys! I can't wait to see it when you are ready to release. use the money to get yourselves a beer! CHEERS!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This guy is like a breath of fresh air in a this smoggy mess of a thread :D
I bought the game out of my own pocket and I think the key difference is I have patience. The only advice I can give you is try a hobby or sport. Otherwise ask for a refund.
This was on October 31, 2002, but i think they need to do a lot, so they move the date to Xmas?
I think end of this year they will release the alpha.
Or maybe the Release is like beta 3.2 (was on November 21, 2006).
Who knows
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Boys who delayed gratification tended to be independently and consistently described as deliberative, attentive and able to concentrate, reasonable, reserved, cooperative, and generally manifesting an ability to modulate motivational and emotional impulse. Boys who did not delay gratification, by contrast, were irritable, restless and fidgety, aggressive, and generally not self-controlled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
..... Interesting.
(Source: Funder, D., Block, J., & Block, J. (1983). Delay of gratification: Some longitudinal personality correlates. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 1983, 44(6), 1198-1213. )
I mean ... thats the only logical explanation, right?
or .. or ...
They've actually had a RC-5 for years now, they just think its funny to read the forums and laugh at the people whining about not having an alpha yet.
I still seriously don't know what people complaining about this expect the devs to do. Do you <b>really</b> need them to come to the forums and say "It's not ready yet"? I mean ... really? You guys just want a virtual pat on the head and a "there there, it will be ok" from a dev to ease your mind?
Here, pretend this is a comment from a dev:
"We're sorry, the alpha is just not ready yet. We're working as hard as we can to get it to you guys and the moment it's ready, you will know. We don't have a current release date for it yet, but we're working as fast as we can. We're excited for you to start playing and provide feedback as you are! Thanks!"
If they had something for us to play, we would be playing it. Do you think they have an alpha release they're just not giving us? For what reason?
I'm pretty sure you don't expect the devs to feed the trolls all by themselves, thats why we have a community here who really cares about that poor little creatures.
We won't let you starve to death, we will feed you, we help you through these hard times, you are not alone.
GO TROLLS !
... :P Good Night
Sounds like all the US 24 hour news networks.
..... Interesting.
(Source: Funder, D., Block, J., & Block, J. (1983). Delay of gratification: Some longitudinal personality correlates. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 1983, 44(6), 1198-1213. )<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This sounds on par with some random news report I read that said that kids who have chocolate every day will tend to grow up to be more irritable, impatient, etc
Worst analogy of the day goes to this guy! You may as well be going "GO MAKE YOUR OWN GAME IF YOU DONT LIKE IT@!@".
This has nothing to do with the discussion nor strengthens the analogy further, although I guess it tells you if you put your mind to making burgers hard enough, you can do it.
zing!
I'm slightly dissapointed now I've only got one month left in this awesome country and that the map making tools arn't out, my plan was to make an NS2 map with all the free time I've got here. I understand though, you can't just make a few models and write a bit of code then slap it all together. Hell even making a map can take me a few months, it's a very time consuming process and it's easy to lose track of the time.
These guys know what they're doing, I tried my hand at mods a few years a go and NS is the best example of how to make one, release bit by bit. They can't do that here though, they need a solid game that's as perfected as they can get it on release, which you can imagine is a huge amount of work and the source of many a headache. Getting emotional over this is futile, threatening to cancel preorders isn't going to get you the game either. All you have to do is wait, let them do all the hard work and stressing.
*GASP* Wheres THAT picture from?? P:
The one I got when I bought it (guessing it's from that page...) looks like this:
<img src="http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5875/zomgmonies.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
(I'm using the "THANK YOU" page as my frontpage <3)
But i will say one thing... if it's an animation for a gorgey dressed up like superman doing the belly slide... I will love the dev forever.
This Game -Will- Be >Epic< [Win]!
How dare you say this! Always believe man! Let's hope for an Alpha. If not, then we shall keep waiting! As long as the game gets the best development attention. :)