Private_ColemanPhD in Video GamesJoin Date: 2002-11-07Member: 7510Members
I ran into a bunch of people trying to get that spy achievement. Despite it being ridiculously hard to get in normal play, I needed to ruin it for them by going scout and assassinating the spy time and time again before he could get to their "meet location" in my team's sewer.
If you're going to farm achievements you shouldn't join a (now) full server of people legitimately playing the game and then complain when people kill the enemy team members.
Private_ColemanPhD in Video GamesJoin Date: 2002-11-07Member: 7510Members
edited June 2008
They couldn't work the achievement out and were just igniting the spy rather than killing him, and were really ruining the game for everyone else, because if you went through the sewer way you got attacked by all of them.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1681699:date=Jun 21 2008, 01:19 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Jun 21 2008, 01:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yeah, I'm in your boat. I still resent the whole unlockables concept. maybe I'll play again when they finish all the classes. at least then I'll be able to play whatever class I feel like at the time and possibly make progress toward unlocking something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Meh, if you don't like them, either ignore them or just go farm them. That being said: If the game is fun (Which it is) why does it matter or not if all of your 'hard work' is for 'naught' b/c it isn't for an achievement?
<!--quoteo(post=1681717:date=Jun 21 2008, 07:51 PM:name=Private_Coleman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Private_Coleman @ Jun 21 2008, 07:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681717"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I ran into a bunch of people trying to get that spy achievement. Despite it being ridiculously hard to get in normal play, I needed to ruin it for them by going scout and assassinating the spy time and time again before he could get to their "meet location" in my team's sewer.
If you're going to farm achievements you shouldn't join a (now) full server of people legitimately playing the game and then complain when people kill the enemy team members.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Any amount of playing just for achievements on a normal server pisses me off, and will make me go around and piss on their parade b/c I am a bastd.
There are 24/7 achievement servers, just go there. Or make a damn listen server and PW it.
Having people running around as HVY/Medic just building up uber then trying to punch people pisses me off when the entire server is actually trying to play.
I love the pyro update. Before, he was my least-played class. Now he is second only to the soldier. The backburner is genius, and the flare gun is extremely useful.
It's a shame some of the new map inclusions are so boring, visually and thematically. Fastlane, turbine and badlands don't seem to be any more than a lifeless collection of metal, concrete and wood. They may look like they belong in the TF2 universe, but they sure don't feel like it.
<!--quoteo(post=1681743:date=Jun 22 2008, 12:27 PM:name=J!)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J! @ Jun 22 2008, 12:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a shame some of the new map inclusions are so boring, visually and thematically. Fastlane, turbine and badlands don't seem to be any more than a lifeless collection of metal, concrete and wood. They may look like they belong in the TF2 universe, but they sure don't feel like it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah the new collections of metal, concrete, and wood really fail compared to the old collections of metal, concrete, and wood that are 2fort, well, granary, and dusbowl.
They all look great, IMHO.TF2 is one of the prettiest games on the market. I have 100+ screenshots from it and I'm going to keep taking more because it's just so enjoyable to look at. It's like a Pixar movie.
I still maintain that the flare gun's only appeal is getting the corresponding achievement. After that it can be shelved and forgotten about. It's not worthless. It has its uses. If I could put it in slot 4, I'd bring it along. But give up the shotgun, which is greatly superior? Madness.
Well, flare gun is OK. I use it mainly to piss off snipers and to irritate people, I am going to charge head on. Backburner is SUPREME! Heck, that thing is most likely overpowered. I played quite a bit of pyro from the start and was used to ambush and circle burn my targets. But with the backburner I can simply charge them head on, thanks to +50hp. Compression blast on the improved flamethrower seems not as useful as I hoped, mainly due to latency issues. that thing is just way too hard to use in a pub server. Lets see what the competitive scene makes out of it.
<!--quoteo(post=1681747:date=Jun 22 2008, 07:28 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Jun 22 2008, 07:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681747"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still maintain that the flare gun's only appeal is getting the corresponding achievement. After that it can be shelved and forgotten about. It's not worthless. It has its uses. If I could put it in slot 4, I'd bring it along. But give up the shotgun, which is greatly superior? Madness.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I got hit with the flaregun as sniper, the initial damage is only ~5hp but if you don't take a medpack it ends up taking half your health (as sniper).
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1681748:date=Jun 22 2008, 12:43 PM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 22 2008, 12:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681748"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Compression blast on the improved flamethrower seems not as useful as I hoped, mainly due to latency issues. that thing is just way too hard to use in a pub server. Lets see what the competitive scene makes out of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The timing to reflect things is pretty tricky, but if you get it down it's easy to hold down a hallway from Soldiers and Demomen until backup arrives, but before you know it you have 25 ammo left and you're pretty screwed.
<!--quoteo(post=1681751:date=Jun 22 2008, 02:21 PM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sherpa @ Jun 22 2008, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681751"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I got hit with the flaregun as sniper, the initial damage is only ~5hp but if you don't take a medpack it ends up taking half your health (as sniper).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1681746:date=Jun 23 2008, 03:22 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jun 23 2008, 03:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681746"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah the new collections of metal, concrete, and wood really fail compared to the old collections of metal, concrete, and wood that are 2fort, well, granary, and dusbowl.
They all look great, IMHO.TF2 is one of the prettiest games on the market. I have 100+ screenshots from it and I'm going to keep taking more because it's just so enjoyable to look at. It's like a Pixar movie.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh. I never said TF2 didn't look great. The maps I mentioned are dissimilar to the other TF2 maps in that they don't really have any sort of theme (ever noticed the difference between dustbowl and 2fort?). Sure they're using the same art assets, but they aren't getting the same results. Maybe it's an artist thing.
Oh yeah, and I find the flare gun consistently more useful than the shotgun. I don't think it does 5 damage on impact either, and the TF2 wiki agrees with me: <a href="http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Flare_gun" target="_blank">http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Flare_gun</a>
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited June 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1681757:date=Jun 22 2008, 05:06 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jun 22 2008, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681757"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's mega accurate so it gives you a great long range weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it to be more satisfying than the shotgun. Sure I can't finish people off as easily but it's satisfying in the same way as the grenade launcher... If you lead your shot right, you can see them get hit and you know they're all like "AHH FIRE"
p.s. Free weekend apparently has expired, so any newbs that came during the weekend should be gone.
The flaregun is, as mentioned, great against snipers, it flies straight and you can hit them across the map, instantly screwing up their support for at least 10 seconds. Which is enough for yourself to advance with flamer. It's second use is to light up targets and hit them with critaxe, they get less alarmed then if you flame em. Also good for teamworking with other pyros who run in with critaxes as you light up targets for them. Otherwise, meh.
The backburner is so superior I wonder if they even weighed it against the tradeoff? Extra protection and extra attack power vs some gimmick which only really work if you have low ping and lots of fps in other then long/medium distances. Holding off a uber only works if the rest of the team sits around the corner screaming for health. Fooshing enemies up in the air is useless less you juggle them real good or you are two pyros. It can make a soldier miss but as you have to wait a moment to spew fire again the soldier will already have next shot fired. It's at best when sitting next to a turret and blowing away stickys/rockets and flaming spies.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1681757:date=Jun 22 2008, 03:06 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jun 22 2008, 03:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681757"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's mega accurate so it gives you a great long range weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It does have a ton of bullet drop and it slow, so anyone can see it coming.
<!--quoteo(post=1681763:date=Jun 22 2008, 05:36 PM:name=Liku)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Liku @ Jun 22 2008, 05:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681763"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It does have a ton of bullet drop and it slow, so anyone can see it coming.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It has barely any bullet drop.
I readily agree, it has its uses. I don't dispute that it is an okay weapon. The issue is not with the flare gun, but with the weapon it replaces, the shotgun. The shotgun represents the pyro's only viable weapon for causing damage to an opponent that retreats outside the range of the flamethrower. It's simply too useful for finishing off an opponent who attempts to flee. The flare gun is insufficient for that task, as the target should already be on fire, and the flare gun's direct damage is subpar. In slot four, the flare gun would shine. In slot two, it is eclipsed by the shotgun. However, putting it in slot four would make the pyro too flexible, therefore it stays where it is: On the sidelines.
I wonder why TF2wiki says it is useful against engineers. I don't see how. As long as the engineer is not under greater, more potent fire, the damage from the flare gun is forgettable as long as he stays next to his dispenser. The direct damage isn't worth much, and the burning can nowhere near outweigh the healing from the dispenser. Worse, you won't get a clear shot at most engineers, as they'll be hiding behind their sentry. Firing flares at his sentry gun is more likely to elicit hysterical laughter from the engineer than any genuine concern for his building's well-being. Assuming the flares do 25 damage per shot, that's six flares to take down a mere level 1 sentry. You'd probably be better off trying to insult the engineer in an attempt to get him to ragequit. If you've been good, you might get the BarbeQueQ achievement while you're at it.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
I don't see any use for the flaregun against engineers, though I really wish there was...
Also, while the flaregun definitely does a lot less damage than the shotgun I find myself using it far more than I did with the shotgun. The shotgun required you to be at short to medium range to use it, which is in and almost in flamethrower range. Flaregun is meant to be used as a out of range weapon and so I have been finding it a lot more useful than the shotgun due to the accuracy.
It would be even better if everyone wasn't pyro. It's heavily nerfed when you're just playing against other pyros since they don't keep burning while running closer to you.
Anyone else (who plays Soldier a lot) think the Soldier has been nerfed too much?
Why?
<b>Before</b> Soldier always sucked against moving enemies at long range (dodge rockets) Soldier used to excel at mid range and close range (with 60% damage from rocket splash damage)
<b>Now</b> Soldier still sucks against moving enemies at long range (dodge rockets) Soldier only excels at mid range Soldier sucks at close range (with 100% damage from rocket splash damage)
It's supposed to do 60% splash damage if rocket jumping, which is fine in principle but in practise when you round a corner and an enemy is in your face, they'll get one hit on you and you'll fire a rocket and gib yourself. Rocket jumping to reach an enemy quicker leaves you even more prone to gibbage. It's virtually impossible in these situations to hit the floor when there's an enemy filling your screen. So basically Soldier just got nerfed the ###### out of when in most indoor and built-up areas, which is basically most choke points in the game.
As for Pyros versus Soldiers, I dunno exactly what they did to the Pyro's flamer but it seems to reach further and do more damage at maximum range than before. Pyros now have long-range capability, which makes them superior to the Soldier at long range, because a Soldier will have everyone dodge their rockets, but the Flare Gun is a very fast moving projectile that does DoT.
Soldiers have been turned into little useless biaaatches like the Heavy that need a Medic to hold their hand or else they burn to death or gib themselves on ambushers.
Meh. It'd be interesting to see how much the Soldier numbers drop off once everyone stops playing Pyro. Imo the splash damage should be 80%, not 100%. I agree the Soldier needed a nerf, but jesus in practise it feels like he just had his weiner ripped off.
<!--quoteo(post=1681782:date=Jun 23 2008, 10:52 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Jun 23 2008, 10:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681782"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for Pyros versus Soldiers, I dunno exactly what they did to the Pyro's flamer but it seems to reach further and do more damage at maximum range than before. Pyros now have long-range capability, which makes them superior to the Soldier at long range, because a Soldier will have everyone dodge their rockets, but the Flare Gun is a very fast moving projectile that does DoT.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought I was the only one who noticed pyros greater range and damage, is this their "tweak" they talked about? Also the backburner works as such that any flames that are in the air and hits your back does crit damage, so even if the pyro didn't shoot at the moment you turn (it's like spy knife, it works on sides) it still can land a backcrit. This is very annoying.
A regular pyro vs a backburner pyro is also doomed to loose 9/10 times, not much reward for trying to be a teamplayer, maybe it wont be so obvious when everyone stops being pyros.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
I have given up playing anything except for pyro as I am just sick and tired of constantly being on fire.
I mean, if I can catch a pyro at medium range, the sucker is toast as juggling them is a cinch, but at close range I am toast. And combine that with pyros now having more HP then a soldier.....
Honestly, I don't think the pyro was made to be OP. Just with the soldier nerf and EVERYONE playing pyro, people are finally learning how to play him correctly. That and Pyros just seem to be OP when they mass up just due to in ability to aim at them clearly and that they don't block each other's shots.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited June 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1681790:date=Jun 23 2008, 08:06 AM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Jun 23 2008, 08:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681790"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have given up playing anything except for pyro as I am just sick and tired of constantly being on fire.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The backburner is even worse because then the pyro has an extra 50 health. It makes it overpowered because most people are just trading what they consider to be a gimmick with extra health and a better ability to ambush.
The trick to killing pyros is to shoot them. I know this is tough with all the whining but you just have to buckle down and shoot them. Believe it or not they die and you're left with between a little and a lot of health and some flames than you can dispose of in whatever manner you see fit. In any case they have to get so close to you that you can't possibly miss. Unless of course you're a soldier in which case you need to juggle them before they get close. Saying "if I catch them at medium range I'm fine but if they get close I die" is like them saying the opposite. Just think about it from the pyro's perspective.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
Gotta say I think the backburner is overpowered, for what it's supposed to be. Taking away the air blast thing does nothing to nerf it, since we were all used to playing without it in the first place (I was a heavy pyro player before the update, believe it or not), plus the fact that it's not really all that useful. Blowing away stickies is cool, but the shotgun can do that easier (you don't have to be as close), and uses less ammo. Knocking back rockets is fun for annoying people, but due to lag and most people's reaction speeds, if you have the time to knock back a rocket, you have the time to dodge it (so it doesn't "add" any defensive ability, just changes it).
The most annoying thing to me about the backburner is that if someone gets in range of you with it, you're screwed. Since pyros are one of the fastest classes in the game, only the scout can really outrun them. But if you turn your back on them to run (they can keep up anyway), they'll crit your ass off. If you run backwards while shooting, they are *faster* than you, and you've got flames in your face, which makes it annoyingly hard to aim at them. Add to that the fact that they're now also 50hp stronger, you've got a seriously annoying enemy. I guess all that just ties in with the "ambush" aspect, though.
The backburner just appears to be seriously powerful compared to the regular flamethrower. It shouldn't be *that* much more powerful.
Btw, I think the reason the Pyro seems to be stronger now is because there used to be a 25% damage falloff at the end of the flamer's reach, which they've removed (I *think*, they might've put it back on).
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1681803:date=Jun 23 2008, 10:00 AM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(X_Stickman @ Jun 23 2008, 10:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681803"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The backburner just appears to be seriously powerful compared to the regular flamethrower. It shouldn't be *that* much more powerful. Btw, I think the reason the Pyro seems to be stronger now is because there used to be a 25% damage falloff at the end of the flamer's reach, which they've removed (I *think*, they might've put it back on).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yah. sorta pondering that.
my problem is that I still suck as pyro. I don't know why exactly, but I end up in a situation where normally I would be toast (if roles were reversed), but instead I end up dieing to rockets/other pyros/what ever.
I have since changed my play style a bit and am going more for the 'sneak up behind them and then rip them apart' tactic. My best one so far was hiding just beneath one of the drops in goldrush and crit killing 3 people in a row as they dropped on my head.
then again, same map I had one pyro that would dominate me no matter what, I just could not kill him. I would run into him when I was over full HP and still die with him having about 1/2 hp, and it was nothing but the 2 of us spraying each other with flames.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1681784:date=Jun 23 2008, 05:05 AM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Jun 23 2008, 05:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681784"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought I was the only one who noticed pyros greater range and damage, is this their "tweak" they talked about? Also the backburner works as such that any flames that are in the air and hits your back does crit damage, so even if the pyro didn't shoot at the moment you turn (it's like spy knife, it works on sides) it still can land a backcrit. This is very annoying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that was the update before the "big" update. Also I've found the backcrit to be very particular and much less reliable than the spy knife. I'll be staring at someone's back flaming them and it will still take a second before a crit registers and I have not gotten an "sidecrits". <!--quoteo(post=1681803:date=Jun 23 2008, 10:00 AM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(X_Stickman @ Jun 23 2008, 10:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681803"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gotta say I think the backburner is overpowered, for what it's supposed to be. Taking away the air blast thing does nothing to nerf it, since we were all used to playing without it in the first place (I was a heavy pyro player before the update, believe it or not), plus the fact that it's not really all that useful. Blowing away stickies is cool, but the shotgun can do that easier (you don't have to be as close), and uses less ammo. Knocking back rockets is fun for annoying people, but due to lag and most people's reaction speeds, if you have the time to knock back a rocket, you have the time to dodge it (so it doesn't "add" any defensive ability, just changes it).
The most annoying thing to me about the backburner is that if someone gets in range of you with it, you're screwed. Since pyros are one of the fastest classes in the game, only the scout can really outrun them. But if you turn your back on them to run (they can keep up anyway), they'll crit your ass off. If you run backwards while shooting, they are *faster* than you, and you've got flames in your face, which makes it annoyingly hard to aim at them. Add to that the fact that they're now also 50hp stronger, you've got a seriously annoying enemy. I guess all that just ties in with the "ambush" aspect, though.
The backburner just appears to be seriously powerful compared to the regular flamethrower. It shouldn't be *that* much more powerful. Btw, I think the reason the Pyro seems to be stronger now is because there used to be a 25% damage falloff at the end of the flamer's reach, which they've removed (I *think*, they might've put it back on).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> While I agree the backburner may be OP(doesn't need the health increase), I wouldn't count the airburst out yet. It changes the way soldiers and demomen play against you. If you've been airbursting rockets back at them they'll get closer to you before they start firing and that can be the different between a cap and a gibbed pyro. I capped a point pretty much by myself that way.
<!--quoteo(post=1681802:date=Jun 23 2008, 02:20 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jun 23 2008, 02:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681802"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The trick to killing pyros is to shoot them. I know this is tough with all the whining but you just have to buckle down and shoot them. Believe it or not they die and you're left with between a little and a lot of health and some flames than you can dispose of in whatever manner you see fit. In any case they have to get so close to you that you can't possibly miss. Unless of course you're a soldier in which case you need to juggle them before they get close. Saying "if I catch them at medium range I'm fine but if they get close I die" is like them saying the opposite. Just think about it from the pyro's perspective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Thank you for this blinding revelation, Cpt. Obvious.
You know these things called corners. Well imagine in this case they bridge an area you're in and an area you need to get to. On one side of the corner is a Pyro (a short-range specialist). Now, no amount of shooting him once you're already lying burning in a corner will make him die. No amount of gibbing yourself on his face will cause his heart to stop and him to keel over and die. The only option according to your 'just shoot him' strategy is to never go through doorways, to just camp outside with a medium or long-range specialist; or to use an uber every time you pass through a spot where a Pyro could be lurking.
Face it, the Backburner Pyro is frikken overpowered because its crit-hit-detection isn't working properly and it gets +50 HP. Even when this is fixed I still think the health bonus plus the long-range DoT flare will make the Pyro a bit too good. Oh and it would really be nice if the backburner model was more obvious because I need to know when a Pyro has an additional 50 HP to break down, at the moment it's virtually impossible to tell the difference.
Before, the hit detection of the Flamer was broken and it was hard to get hits with the Pyro, plus he seemed to have a severe damage falloff from the white hot ignition point of the flamer to the tails of the flames. They 'fixed' both of these and the option to use a broken critspam weapon with a 50 HP bonus.
So, essentially this is what the Pyro (with a Flare Gun and Backburner) got: +range +accuracy +damage +health points
This for a class that was only slightly underpowered.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Meh I still don't think the pyro was underpowered, perhaps in terms of raw kill raking, but assist kills where plentyfull. I never felt underpowered while playing him and the airbursting is quite usefull vs ubers, when seperating the medic from his ######
Comments
If you're going to farm achievements you shouldn't join a (now) full server of people legitimately playing the game and then complain when people kill the enemy team members.
And they had horrible mic voices.
Meh, if you don't like them, either ignore them or just go farm them.
That being said:
If the game is fun (Which it is) why does it matter or not if all of your 'hard work' is for 'naught' b/c it isn't for an achievement?
<!--quoteo(post=1681717:date=Jun 21 2008, 07:51 PM:name=Private_Coleman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Private_Coleman @ Jun 21 2008, 07:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681717"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I ran into a bunch of people trying to get that spy achievement. Despite it being ridiculously hard to get in normal play, I needed to ruin it for them by going scout and assassinating the spy time and time again before he could get to their "meet location" in my team's sewer.
If you're going to farm achievements you shouldn't join a (now) full server of people legitimately playing the game and then complain when people kill the enemy team members.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any amount of playing just for achievements on a normal server pisses me off, and will make me go around and piss on their parade b/c I am a bastd.
There are 24/7 achievement servers, just go there. Or make a damn listen server and PW it.
Having people running around as HVY/Medic just building up uber then trying to punch people pisses me off when the entire server is actually trying to play.
It's a shame some of the new map inclusions are so boring, visually and thematically. Fastlane, turbine and badlands don't seem to be any more than a lifeless collection of metal, concrete and wood. They may look like they belong in the TF2 universe, but they sure don't feel like it.
Yeah the new collections of metal, concrete, and wood really fail compared to the old collections of metal, concrete, and wood that are 2fort, well, granary, and dusbowl.
They all look great, IMHO.TF2 is one of the prettiest games on the market. I have 100+ screenshots from it and I'm going to keep taking more because it's just so enjoyable to look at. It's like a Pixar movie.
Backburner is SUPREME! Heck, that thing is most likely overpowered. I played quite a bit of pyro from the start and was used to ambush and circle burn my targets. But with the backburner I can simply charge them head on, thanks to +50hp.
Compression blast on the improved flamethrower seems not as useful as I hoped, mainly due to latency issues. that thing is just way too hard to use in a pub server. Lets see what the competitive scene makes out of it.
I got hit with the flaregun as sniper, the initial damage is only ~5hp but if you don't take a medpack it ends up taking half your health (as sniper).
The timing to reflect things is pretty tricky, but if you get it down it's easy to hold down a hallway from Soldiers and Demomen until backup arrives, but before you know it you have 25 ammo left and you're pretty screwed.
<!--quoteo(post=1681751:date=Jun 22 2008, 02:21 PM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sherpa @ Jun 22 2008, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681751"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I got hit with the flaregun as sniper, the initial damage is only ~5hp but if you don't take a medpack it ends up taking half your health (as sniper).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then it's pretty much worthless.
They all look great, IMHO.TF2 is one of the prettiest games on the market. I have 100+ screenshots from it and I'm going to keep taking more because it's just so enjoyable to look at. It's like a Pixar movie.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh. I never said TF2 didn't look great. The maps I mentioned are dissimilar to the other TF2 maps in that they don't really have any sort of theme (ever noticed the difference between dustbowl and 2fort?). Sure they're using the same art assets, but they aren't getting the same results. Maybe it's an artist thing.
Oh yeah, and I find the flare gun consistently more useful than the shotgun. I don't think it does 5 damage on impact either, and the TF2 wiki agrees with me:
<a href="http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Flare_gun" target="_blank">http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Flare_gun</a>
If you hit a sniper, it makes their view shake, making it almost impossible for them to snipe.
If you pop a medic from afar, he's out of the fight until he finds health.
Repeated hits from it end up doing a lot of damage especially over time.
It's mega accurate so it gives you a great long range weapon.
I find it to be more satisfying than the shotgun. Sure I can't finish people off as easily but it's satisfying in the same way as the grenade launcher... If you lead your shot right, you can see them get hit and you know they're all like "AHH FIRE"
p.s. Free weekend apparently has expired, so any newbs that came during the weekend should be gone.
The backburner is so superior I wonder if they even weighed it against the tradeoff? Extra protection and extra attack power vs some gimmick which only really work if you have low ping and lots of fps in other then long/medium distances. Holding off a uber only works if the rest of the team sits around the corner screaming for health. Fooshing enemies up in the air is useless less you juggle them real good or you are two pyros. It can make a soldier miss but as you have to wait a moment to spew fire again the soldier will already have next shot fired.
It's at best when sitting next to a turret and blowing away stickys/rockets and flaming spies.
It does have a ton of bullet drop and it slow, so anyone can see it coming.
It has barely any bullet drop.
I wonder why TF2wiki says it is useful against engineers. I don't see how. As long as the engineer is not under greater, more potent fire, the damage from the flare gun is forgettable as long as he stays next to his dispenser. The direct damage isn't worth much, and the burning can nowhere near outweigh the healing from the dispenser. Worse, you won't get a clear shot at most engineers, as they'll be hiding behind their sentry. Firing flares at his sentry gun is more likely to elicit hysterical laughter from the engineer than any genuine concern for his building's well-being. Assuming the flares do 25 damage per shot, that's six flares to take down a mere level 1 sentry. You'd probably be better off trying to insult the engineer in an attempt to get him to ragequit. If you've been good, you might get the BarbeQueQ achievement while you're at it.
Also, while the flaregun definitely does a lot less damage than the shotgun I find myself using it far more than I did with the shotgun. The shotgun required you to be at short to medium range to use it, which is in and almost in flamethrower range. Flaregun is meant to be used as a out of range weapon and so I have been finding it a lot more useful than the shotgun due to the accuracy.
It would be even better if everyone wasn't pyro. It's heavily nerfed when you're just playing against other pyros since they don't keep burning while running closer to you.
Why?
<b>Before</b>
Soldier always sucked against moving enemies at long range (dodge rockets)
Soldier used to excel at mid range and close range (with 60% damage from rocket splash damage)
<b>Now</b>
Soldier still sucks against moving enemies at long range (dodge rockets)
Soldier only excels at mid range
Soldier sucks at close range (with 100% damage from rocket splash damage)
It's supposed to do 60% splash damage if rocket jumping, which is fine in principle but in practise when you round a corner and an enemy is in your face, they'll get one hit on you and you'll fire a rocket and gib yourself. Rocket jumping to reach an enemy quicker leaves you even more prone to gibbage. It's virtually impossible in these situations to hit the floor when there's an enemy filling your screen. So basically Soldier just got nerfed the ###### out of when in most indoor and built-up areas, which is basically most choke points in the game.
As for Pyros versus Soldiers, I dunno exactly what they did to the Pyro's flamer but it seems to reach further and do more damage at maximum range than before. Pyros now have long-range capability, which makes them superior to the Soldier at long range, because a Soldier will have everyone dodge their rockets, but the Flare Gun is a very fast moving projectile that does DoT.
Soldiers have been turned into little useless biaaatches like the Heavy that need a Medic to hold their hand or else they burn to death or gib themselves on ambushers.
Meh. It'd be interesting to see how much the Soldier numbers drop off once everyone stops playing Pyro. Imo the splash damage should be 80%, not 100%. I agree the Soldier needed a nerf, but jesus in practise it feels like he just had his weiner ripped off.
I thought I was the only one who noticed pyros greater range and damage, is this their "tweak" they talked about? Also the backburner works as such that any flames that are in the air and hits your back does crit damage, so even if the pyro didn't shoot at the moment you turn (it's like spy knife, it works on sides) it still can land a backcrit. This is very annoying.
A regular pyro vs a backburner pyro is also doomed to loose 9/10 times, not much reward for trying to be a teamplayer, maybe it wont be so obvious when everyone stops being pyros.
It was in a vent on ctf_turbine.
I'm at seven pyro achievements so far, all legitimate.
--Scythe--
I mean, if I can catch a pyro at medium range, the sucker is toast as juggling them is a cinch, but at close range I am toast. And combine that with pyros now having more HP then a soldier.....
Honestly, I don't think the pyro was made to be OP. Just with the soldier nerf and EVERYONE playing pyro, people are finally learning how to play him correctly. That and Pyros just seem to be OP when they mass up just due to in ability to aim at them clearly and that they don't block each other's shots.
So yah, I am a pyro ###### for now.
The backburner is even worse because then the pyro has an extra 50 health. It makes it overpowered because most people are just trading what they consider to be a gimmick with extra health and a better ability to ambush.
The most annoying thing to me about the backburner is that if someone gets in range of you with it, you're screwed. Since pyros are one of the fastest classes in the game, only the scout can really outrun them. But if you turn your back on them to run (they can keep up anyway), they'll crit your ass off. If you run backwards while shooting, they are *faster* than you, and you've got flames in your face, which makes it annoyingly hard to aim at them. Add to that the fact that they're now also 50hp stronger, you've got a seriously annoying enemy. I guess all that just ties in with the "ambush" aspect, though.
The backburner just appears to be seriously powerful compared to the regular flamethrower. It shouldn't be *that* much more powerful.
Btw, I think the reason the Pyro seems to be stronger now is because there used to be a 25% damage falloff at the end of the flamer's reach, which they've removed (I *think*, they might've put it back on).
Btw, I think the reason the Pyro seems to be stronger now is because there used to be a 25% damage falloff at the end of the flamer's reach, which they've removed (I *think*, they might've put it back on).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yah. sorta pondering that.
my problem is that I still suck as pyro. I don't know why exactly, but I end up in a situation where normally I would be toast (if roles were reversed), but instead I end up dieing to rockets/other pyros/what ever.
I have since changed my play style a bit and am going more for the 'sneak up behind them and then rip them apart' tactic. My best one so far was hiding just beneath one of the drops in goldrush and crit killing 3 people in a row as they dropped on my head.
then again, same map I had one pyro that would dominate me no matter what, I just could not kill him. I would run into him when I was over full HP and still die with him having about 1/2 hp, and it was nothing but the 2 of us spraying each other with flames.
Meh.
I think that was the update before the "big" update. Also I've found the backcrit to be very particular and much less reliable than the spy knife. I'll be staring at someone's back flaming them and it will still take a second before a crit registers and I have not gotten an "sidecrits".
<!--quoteo(post=1681803:date=Jun 23 2008, 10:00 AM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(X_Stickman @ Jun 23 2008, 10:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681803"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gotta say I think the backburner is overpowered, for what it's supposed to be. Taking away the air blast thing does nothing to nerf it, since we were all used to playing without it in the first place (I was a heavy pyro player before the update, believe it or not), plus the fact that it's not really all that useful. Blowing away stickies is cool, but the shotgun can do that easier (you don't have to be as close), and uses less ammo. Knocking back rockets is fun for annoying people, but due to lag and most people's reaction speeds, if you have the time to knock back a rocket, you have the time to dodge it (so it doesn't "add" any defensive ability, just changes it).
The most annoying thing to me about the backburner is that if someone gets in range of you with it, you're screwed. Since pyros are one of the fastest classes in the game, only the scout can really outrun them. But if you turn your back on them to run (they can keep up anyway), they'll crit your ass off. If you run backwards while shooting, they are *faster* than you, and you've got flames in your face, which makes it annoyingly hard to aim at them. Add to that the fact that they're now also 50hp stronger, you've got a seriously annoying enemy. I guess all that just ties in with the "ambush" aspect, though.
The backburner just appears to be seriously powerful compared to the regular flamethrower. It shouldn't be *that* much more powerful.
Btw, I think the reason the Pyro seems to be stronger now is because there used to be a 25% damage falloff at the end of the flamer's reach, which they've removed (I *think*, they might've put it back on).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While I agree the backburner may be OP(doesn't need the health increase), I wouldn't count the airburst out yet. It changes the way soldiers and demomen play against you. If you've been airbursting rockets back at them they'll get closer to you before they start firing and that can be the different between a cap and a gibbed pyro. I capped a point pretty much by myself that way.
You know these things called corners. Well imagine in this case they bridge an area you're in and an area you need to get to. On one side of the corner is a Pyro (a short-range specialist). Now, no amount of shooting him once you're already lying burning in a corner will make him die. No amount of gibbing yourself on his face will cause his heart to stop and him to keel over and die. The only option according to your 'just shoot him' strategy is to never go through doorways, to just camp outside with a medium or long-range specialist; or to use an uber every time you pass through a spot where a Pyro could be lurking.
Face it, the Backburner Pyro is frikken overpowered because its crit-hit-detection isn't working properly and it gets +50 HP. Even when this is fixed I still think the health bonus plus the long-range DoT flare will make the Pyro a bit too good. Oh and it would really be nice if the backburner model was more obvious because I need to know when a Pyro has an additional 50 HP to break down, at the moment it's virtually impossible to tell the difference.
Before, the hit detection of the Flamer was broken and it was hard to get hits with the Pyro, plus he seemed to have a severe damage falloff from the white hot ignition point of the flamer to the tails of the flames. They 'fixed' both of these and the option to use a broken critspam weapon with a 50 HP bonus.
So, essentially this is what the Pyro (with a Flare Gun and Backburner) got:
+range
+accuracy
+damage
+health points
This for a class that was only slightly underpowered.