<!--quoteo(post=1666562:date=Jan 6 2008, 10:36 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Jan 6 2008, 10:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->myeh. just ignore him. he'll disagree with every new suggestion that isn't his own convoluted idea, and ignore many of the points made that might run contradictory to his own vision for NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You've figured politics out huh?
This reminds me of those terrible movies where the main hero comes to some striking realization and has a huge emotional breakdown.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
This implementation is similar to what has been discussed about DI, although people haven't mentioned res bonuses as much and the constriction of resources through capturing territory between resnodes and the comm chair. DI is really just a very visual way of observing territory and a map like the one provided would be useful.
Res bonuses are a maybe but I don't think res flow should be stopped if the nodes are cut of from main marine territory. It works on a big open map because you can approach an area from different angles but in a spaceship corridor there are only two. Also, we don't know how "active" and/or "fun" spreading DI will be.
Thank you <!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->localyunscene<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> for posting something on topic.
You're right, NS maps are not "open" and the entire idea of territory is dependent on how DI works and how fast it can spread. You either have Infested or Uninfested territory. In order for territory to work anything like CoH, <!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->the DI woud have to be able to spread just as fast as marines can capture territory.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> If we assume that aliens and marines can spread at the same rate, then many of the suggestions in the first post are possible such as a resource bonus or other special features for captured territory.
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Maybe Dynamic Infestation or Nanites could start to spread automatically in captured territory.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> The act of capturing could be the trigger for alien infestation or for marine nanites to start changing the environment. Gorges would still be able to do there thing, and marines can use the new welding system to further alter the environment. Marines would not have to waste time burning away the infestation, they could just capture the territory and the nanites go to work killing the bacterium and restoring the lighting and other systems. The reverse applies for when aliens capture a territory. I am not sure what the actual trigger would be to capture a territory... maybe the commander could initiate it if only that teams players are present?
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Territories could also make Commanding easier and much more fun.</b> <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Commanders could select controlled territories and activate territory specific upgrades. Improved resource gathering, defensive turrets or chambers, healing, etc. <!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->This is also where the <!--coloro:#F5DEB3--><span style="color:#F5DEB3"><!--/coloro-->Alien Commander<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> can come into play.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Either way, Alien or Marine, the commander gets more control and a much better "Real Time Strategy" feel
A CoH style territory map would also help players to understand what areas are important and see what parts of the map your team controls.
<!--quoteo(post=1666646:date=Jan 7 2008, 01:41 PM:name=EmpV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EmpV @ Jan 7 2008, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thank you <!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->localyunscene<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> for posting something on topic.
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->the DI woud have to be able to spread just as fast as marines can capture territory.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Maybe Dynamic Infestation or Nanites could start to spread automatically in captured territory.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Territories could also make Commanding easier and much more fun.</b> <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
A CoH style territory map would also help players to understand what areas are important and see what parts of the map your team controls.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I full on agree with your excellent post.
On rates of spread, perhaps there could be different rates of capture it would still need a balance of sorts. Inspired by the way NS1 matches start, as it stands now, the spread of resource towers (and hives) is very different for the Marines and the Kharaa. Does anyone remember before ghost structure programs, where Commanders would sometimes drop resource collectors all over the place, to force the Kharaa to be slowed down and have to bite through, and if the marines even got a few unguarded towers built they were basicly blocking the spread of the Kharaa's resource gathering? Now, its not so bad, with Kharaa just running around and touching any unguarded unbuilt structures. So, say make it like the Kharaa own 25 % of the map at the start, Marines have the other 75 % but the Kharaa take territory at twice the speed of the Marines. A way to make the two team asymmetrical when it comes to the two sides gameplay. Want the neutral territory and asymmetry, perhaps go like 20 % Kharaa, 40 % Marine, 40 % Neutral. If the speeds were equal, starts of matches could be like 10 % for each side and the other 80 % could be neutral territory that each takes. Or you cut out the neutral territory and go with 50 / 50.
This also presents some interesting opportunities for what would happen if one where to play KvK or MvM, or even toss in a third team (K or M) for when mods are introduced by the community, especially if there is very vibrant and variant upgrade / technology paths for Kharaa and Marines.
<!--quoteo(post=1666646:date=Jan 8 2008, 03:41 AM:name=EmpV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EmpV @ Jan 8 2008, 03:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Territories could also make Commanding easier and much more fun.</b> <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Commanders could select controlled territories and activate territory specific upgrades. Improved resource gathering, defensive turrets or chambers, healing, etc. <!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->This is also where the <!--coloro:#F5DEB3--><span style="color:#F5DEB3"><!--/coloro-->Alien Commander<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> can come into play.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Either way, Alien or Marine, the commander gets more control and a much better "Real Time Strategy" feel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah. I had just posted a reply on another thread about the need to make the commanding experience in NS2 more exciting and fun. Good point. All good points.
CaWolf: I'm not sure about making DI spread twice as fast as marines can capture territory - at the start, with the 25/75 ratio, that would be okay, but as the game progresses, the aliens' territory would spread significantly faster than the marines', and the marines would have a disadvantage; in terms of territory control, anyway - how that affects their game, I don't know.
<!--quoteo(post=1666746:date=Jan 8 2008, 08:57 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Jan 8 2008, 08:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666746"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->CaWolf: I'm not sure about making DI spread twice as fast as marines can capture territory - at the start, with the 25/75 ratio, that would be okay, but as the game progresses, the aliens' territory would spread significantly faster than the marines', and the marines would have a disadvantage; in terms of territory control, anyway - how that affects their game, I don't know.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, it just is me trying to speculate on ways to make each side play different, that whole asymmetry thing we love. Sure, I love the idea of the use of territory but both sides don't have to use the exact same way.
Sure, Kharaa may get a double rate, but if the Marines could say, remove it fast too. Plus, you could give the Marine's tech a way to defend their territory from DI automaticly taking the nanites out.
I was thinking along the lines of Kharaa getting speed, Marines getting fortifications or perhaps tech that operates even on DI territory. However it goes, I'm just trying to think of a way that this idea of territory can help emphasis Natural Selections asymmetrical game play.
Comments
You've figured politics out huh?
This reminds me of those terrible movies where the main hero comes to some striking realization and has a huge emotional breakdown.
Res bonuses are a maybe but I don't think res flow should be stopped if the nodes are cut of from main marine territory. It works on a big open map because you can approach an area from different angles but in a spaceship corridor there are only two. Also, we don't know how "active" and/or "fun" spreading DI will be.
You're right, NS maps are not "open" and the entire idea of territory is dependent on how DI works and how fast it can spread. You either have Infested or Uninfested territory. In order for territory to work anything like CoH, <!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->the DI woud have to be able to spread just as fast as marines can capture territory.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
If we assume that aliens and marines can spread at the same rate, then many of the suggestions in the first post are possible such as a resource bonus or other special features for captured territory.
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Maybe Dynamic Infestation or Nanites could start to spread automatically in captured territory.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> The act of capturing could be the trigger for alien infestation or for marine nanites to start changing the environment. Gorges would still be able to do there thing, and marines can use the new welding system to further alter the environment. Marines would not have to waste time burning away the infestation, they could just capture the territory and the nanites go to work killing the bacterium and restoring the lighting and other systems. The reverse applies for when aliens capture a territory. I am not sure what the actual trigger would be to capture a territory... maybe the commander could initiate it if only that teams players are present?
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Territories could also make Commanding easier and much more fun.</b> <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Commanders could select controlled territories and activate territory specific upgrades. Improved resource gathering, defensive turrets or chambers, healing, etc. <!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->This is also where the <!--coloro:#F5DEB3--><span style="color:#F5DEB3"><!--/coloro-->Alien Commander<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> can come into play.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Either way, Alien or Marine, the commander gets more control and a much better "Real Time Strategy" feel
A CoH style territory map would also help players to understand what areas are important and see what parts of the map your team controls.
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->the DI woud have to be able to spread just as fast as marines can capture territory.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Maybe Dynamic Infestation or Nanites could start to spread automatically in captured territory.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Territories could also make Commanding easier and much more fun.</b> <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
A CoH style territory map would also help players to understand what areas are important and see what parts of the map your team controls.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I full on agree with your excellent post.
On rates of spread, perhaps there could be different rates of capture it would still need a balance of sorts. Inspired by the way NS1 matches start, as it stands now, the spread of resource towers (and hives) is very different for the Marines and the Kharaa. Does anyone remember before ghost structure programs, where Commanders would sometimes drop resource collectors all over the place, to force the Kharaa to be slowed down and have to bite through, and if the marines even got a few unguarded towers built they were basicly blocking the spread of the Kharaa's resource gathering? Now, its not so bad, with Kharaa just running around and touching any unguarded unbuilt structures. So, say make it like the Kharaa own 25 % of the map at the start, Marines have the other 75 % but the Kharaa take territory at twice the speed of the Marines. A way to make the two team asymmetrical when it comes to the two sides gameplay. Want the neutral territory and asymmetry, perhaps go like 20 % Kharaa, 40 % Marine, 40 % Neutral. If the speeds were equal, starts of matches could be like 10 % for each side and the other 80 % could be neutral territory that each takes. Or you cut out the neutral territory and go with 50 / 50.
This also presents some interesting opportunities for what would happen if one where to play KvK or MvM, or even toss in a third team (K or M) for when mods are introduced by the community, especially if there is very vibrant and variant upgrade / technology paths for Kharaa and Marines.
Ah. I had just posted a reply on another thread about the need to make the commanding experience in NS2 more exciting and fun. Good point.
All good points.
CaWolf: I'm not sure about making DI spread twice as fast as marines can capture territory - at the start, with the 25/75 ratio, that would be okay, but as the game progresses, the aliens' territory would spread significantly faster than the marines', and the marines would have a disadvantage; in terms of territory control, anyway - how that affects their game, I don't know.
Well, it just is me trying to speculate on ways to make each side play different, that whole asymmetry thing we love. Sure, I love the idea of the use of territory but both sides don't have to use the exact same way.
Sure, Kharaa may get a double rate, but if the Marines could say, remove it fast too. Plus, you could give the Marine's tech a way to defend their territory from DI automaticly taking the nanites out.
I was thinking along the lines of Kharaa getting speed, Marines getting fortifications or perhaps tech that operates even on DI territory. However it goes, I'm just trying to think of a way that this idea of territory can help emphasis Natural Selections asymmetrical game play.