Development Blog Update - 14th Podcast

FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer Posts: 6,941 admin
edited December 2007 in NS2 General Discussion
Please post comments on the topic Development Blog Update - 14th Podcast here

The Transcript (thanks afratnikov)
Post edited by Unknown User on
Charlie Cleveland
Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment
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Comments

  • MasterPTGMasterPTG Join Date: 2006-11-30 Member: 58780Members Posts: 283
    edited December 2007
    Insane. I made notes (lol):

    UW is...profitable? omfg. Congrats, buy a cake (or as many as it takes) and become unprofitable!

    Welding downtime: Certainly since NS is a RTS-FPS game, there is going to be 'building and destruction' that is fairly comparable to RTS games (time building/destroying things ==...strategy'ish). But since this -is- half FPS, I just worry that you guys might put too much RTS in NS. tounge.gif.

    Decoda: So you sold Decoda to either Valve, Blizzard or EA? That's great! omfg, good for you.

    Alien commander: You guys are adding an alien commander to 'balance' out the resource model? Interesting. How is the resource model changing? One of the biggest things that I thought was so cool, was the asymetric gameplay which could appeal to two totally different types of people. If you put in a commander for aliens, what would the alien commander do? He'd obviously be given res to do things, so perhaps he'd put down those tubes or put down chambers or OC's or hives? What does he do?

    Tubes: Talking about asymetrical stuff, certainly PG's allowed the -slow- marines to counter the -quick- aliens effectively and efficiently, so I worry when you talk about warping aliens around the DI. But hey--as you guys said, everything is going to be playtested and tweaked, so I think that's pretty cool. I think having a 'waiting' room at the 'end' or 'middle' of the tube is a bad idea. That, I think, could lead to some very poor scenarios of 'hallway camping'... I think, instead, that the alien when @ the end of the 'tube' should be able to 'peak' out and decide whether or not to pop out or not and when. I also think, that the highest lifeform that should be allowed to do this is perhaps the lerk. So..skulks, lerks and gorges could use it, but not onos's (WAY too big and it's unbalance it imho) and fades (they can already blink...why would they need to be able to get warped too....). Very interesting idea, but I wonder how -hard- it would be to program that into the DI. Interesting concept though.

    Notes end sad-fix.gif.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • TheNinthPlayerTheNinthPlayer Join Date: 2002-05-20 Member: 637Members, Constellation Posts: 74
    How would the 'Tubes' differ from Vents? Are they meant to replace them?
  • exizilexizil Join Date: 2005-01-08 Member: 33812Members, Constellation Posts: 13
    Marine's commander can't see the tubes and drop meds there to marines that decide to go trough it...
    The idea is awesome, but the tubes can be build only on trough infestation or you can literally make it on walls?
  • SariselSarisel .::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation Posts: 2,192
    I really really want to be able to tell the veteran players that I know that they were wrong and that UWE succeeded after all - hopefully you can build on this momentum that you're now finding.
  • c0kec0ke Join Date: 2004-07-02 Member: 29676Members Posts: 416 Advanced user
    the alien-commander idea is kinda strange tbh

    but that tube idea is kinda good imo, could be very usefull but shouldnt be as good as PGs. like already said; marines are meant to be slow and the PG is the mainway to become faster for em. aliens already are -- so making em even faster does not make much sens and could be some kind of unfair

    the idea itself is very interesting but i think there are other very interesting ways you could use DI for aswell.. well, hard to say yet smile-fix.gif
    -c0keh
  • obsidobsid Join Date: 2003-09-16 Member: 20909Members Posts: 133
    edited December 2007
    Alien Commander is interesting. But im afraid that it might take away from the unqueness of the diffrent sides a little, and what happens to our lovable pudgy gorgie?

    Tunnels are a good idea, but the question becomes how big are they? Are they big enough for a onos? Secondly how straight are they, very straight might be an advantage to marines. Also can they be "placed" high up on a wall or on a ceiling? Maybe a better idea might be to have the gorgie select that "stucture" then pick a spot on DI somewhere (in 3d where thier cursor is pointing at), then go to the other location and click on the structure again and pick a spot for the other end? Of corse this assumes you dont have much else that the alien commander would be doing (which is probably wrong).

    Oh and what happens to the people that are "between" locations in (or half way out of) a tunnel when the DI is pushed back from one of the tunnels? do the tunnels stay beause there was once DI here?

    (I do love the talk about alien diffrences though smile-fix.gif )
  • MapsterMapster Join Date: 2007-11-01 Member: 62796Members Posts: 92
    Congratulations on making a profit from NS2!!!!!

    Frankly i do NOT like the idea about the alien commander, it changes the idea that Marines and Aliens are completely different, i prefer having a gorge build everything than have an alien commander summon an offensive chamber out of the dynamic infestation or right beside the marines phase gates.

    Heres an idea, why not make it so the commander is able to scroll around like when your a spectator in counter-strike? That could take away the the fact that alien Tubes would be visible by the commander, but it could add a lot more advantage to the marines.

    Also i would find marine vs marine mods rather odd, there would have to be differences between the teams such as upgrades, weapons, damage... etc, even if they are just different models with similar yet different damage and attack speed?
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  • BuzzouBuzzou Join Date: 2006-12-14 Member: 59056Members, Constellation Posts: 404 Advanced user
    step 1: make ns1
    step 2: make decoda
    step 3: ??
    step 4: PROFIT!

    lol great to hear you guys have made a profit, i'm sure there will be heaps more to come..

    i think the tubes idea is awesome, but will obviously require a lot of play testing for balancing, as mentioned earlier, aliens are already quite fast, and can travel in large parts of the map that marines cant (well without JP's anyways).

    i do however have grave reservations on how an alien commander could be implemented, and it makes my head spin at all the changes this would create from what we all know and love. the fact that currently the 2 teams work in totally different ways, is something that made NS really stand out above other similar games. i'm a bit shocked that an alien commander is seriously being considered, and sceptical of the outcome. i was expecting big changes in the game, but this one just seems too big to comprehend. maybe i'm just being too conservative and desperately trying to cling to what i'm used to, i dunno. just tread carefully and test it thoroughly.

    i think i just need a bit more time to think of the possibilities this could create, while this will dramaticially change the way aliens work, it could introduce great new features to the alien side, like tubes. but couldnt my poor little gorgy lay the tubes down instead? to steal another south park joke, "THEY TOOK OUR JEEEORBS!!!!
    Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood.
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  • MapsterMapster Join Date: 2007-11-01 Member: 62796Members Posts: 92
    QUOTE(Buzzou @ Dec 15 2007, 05:18 PM) »
    i think the tubes idea is awesome, but will obviously require a lot of play testing for balancing, as mentioned earlier, aliens are already quite fast, and can travel in large parts of the map that marines cant (well without JP's anyways).


    This could bring in a way for aliens to get past welded doors, instead of having to bash them over, they can simply dig a tunnel and come right up behind the marines.

    QUOTE(Buzzou @ Dec 15 2007, 05:18 PM) »
    i was expecting big changes in the game, but this one just seems too big to comprehend. maybe i'm just being too conservative and desperately trying to cling to what i'm used to, i dunno. just tread carefully and test it thoroughly.


    I wasn't expecting many changes except the graphics when i first came on, but after a while i didn't expect an alien commander to be a good idea in any way, unless of course marines lost their commander and had to teleport in weapons and that on teleporters selected around the game.


    QUOTE(Buzzou @ Dec 15 2007, 05:18 PM) »
    but couldnt my poor little gorgy


    The gorgey is what attracts all the woman, if that gets removed, the game will only have men!
    (not that i have any problems with that, it's nice to have a female in the server from time to time).

    But even if they did have an alien commadner, they wouldn't take away the gorge, if they did they would need to give a new function to another alien type that'll allow the aliens to build and heal other structures summoned by the commander.
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  • BCSephBCSeph Join Date: 2005-02-24 Member: 42384Members, Constellation Posts: 223
    I think the sides should be as different as possible to diversify the gameplay experience. Tubes = PG??? Maybe. If it does then it detracts from the differences. Alien commander?? If I want to be commanded I play marines.
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  • cerberus414cerberus414 Join Date: 2005-05-07 Member: 51098Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 217
    edited December 2007
    I also think that the alien commander is a little "if-fy". There is a reason why games like Starcraft, WoW, and Team Fortress succeeded. The classes/races are completely different. Trying to make classes similar will take away from unique-ness as several people stated. As a common expression goes "Don't fix it if it ain't broke" Sometimes some things are fine the way they are. There is no reason to change everything for the sake of the change. Kinda like Microsoft Vista (Had to say it). I think the res models in NS1 are fine and should actually remain the same. You guys need to step back and look at the positives of NS1 and capitalize on them, and mainly modify things that weren't so good. Don't get me wrong, a lot should still be changed, but not the whole game entirely. Change too little, people complain that its just a graphical update, add to much people get confused and think it's too deviated in a way that it no longer resembles NS1. You just need to find the right G-spot (can't think of another word), which I think is the hardest thing when it comes to sequels.

    As for decoda. Can you at least gives us a hint. The first letter of the company maybe? Please. I'm dying to know. No joke.
  • c0kec0ke Join Date: 2004-07-02 Member: 29676Members Posts: 416 Advanced user
    the "alien commander" could also look like the gorge had been in 1.04, just with more goodies. i liked the role the gorge had in 1.04 a lot, and if you modify it so he becomes more kind of a commander it could become really good imo. (like using structures to upgrade, setting targets etc)

    but a comm, with giving waypoints and researchign stuff while sitting in a structure (copying the marine comm) would honestly suck
    -c0keh
  • stickybootstickyboot Join Date: 2004-01-29 Member: 25711Members, Constellation Posts: 131
    Wow. Thanks for the shout out about the bast underwater tunnel. Descending into the tunnel having those last stands as an alien gorge underwater fighting off heavies with OCs and DCs brought back some fun memories.
  • maxwellcofemaxwellcofe Join Date: 2006-12-02 Member: 58848Members Posts: 36
    hahaha Nydus Canal ftw

    well i like some of the ideas, but not the Ai weld bot.... , unles..... the commander could micro it around allowing the marines to use it as a welding bot, that could "follow" a marine or have basic controls such as "patrol"

    but yeah sounds like you guys are getting a lot done with NS2 hope to play it soon!

    and a link to some of my ideas here

    http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=103429
  • GaroGaro Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33134Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 81 Fully active user
    I don't like idea of a full featured alien commander. Instead I think you should implement more commanding and interacting features to the aliens themself, specially gorges. Thinks like giving map points from the UI (pressing a map place with mouse and other aliens would see it in their hud and map). I think that gorges should build all stuff, just like now and also they could give directions or orders to otheres.

    Personally when I'm gorging I spend a lot of time looking the map and writing to say_team where others should be going and where I spot marines. Often I can spot a marine from the map which other aliens didn't spot or didn't have time to report and I get to report the marine to my teammates.

    I like the idea of tubes. The tubes could flow inside the DI after it's thick enough in some area. I don't know if this is possible with the game engine, as two ends are placed to the tunnel, the engine calculates shortests path between those two points via DI (it could be that there's a need of a clear Dynamic Infested path from end-to-end, or it could be that the virtual tunnel can skip areas without any DI in them) and forms a virtual tunnel between them. The aliens moving in the tunnel would not physically be in the rooms (as far as the engine goes), but they could hear sounds coming from the room where the DI is and where the alien is according to the virtual tunnel formed by the engine. If the aliens chooses to, it can bite the wall open and rush into the real world room and the DI would quickly heal itself back together.

    That was a bit hard to explain, I'm not sure if I got it clear enough. But the main point with my idea is that when the alien is in the tunnel, the marines could not hurt them. But if the alien chooses to, it can break out from the tube and enter the real world room. It would be even cooler if the alien inside the tube could actually see through the tube wall. I think that with the new portal technology which hl:ep2 engine has, this might be totally doable =)

    - Garo
  • SnappyCrunchSnappyCrunch Join Date: 2004-08-03 Member: 30328Members, Constellation Posts: 495
    I like the idea of the tubes, something that connects to walls or floors and say, has a length equal to half the actual distance. Clever.

    I dislike the idea of an alien commander, though, for the same reason I dislike MvM or AvA. I play NS because it is asymmetrical. NS was one of the first to do an RTS/FPS hybrid, and it is still one of the best because the sides are completely dissimilar. If I wanted a symmetrical game, I'd go play Empires.
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  • RuByRuBy Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10732Members Posts: 1,019
    I'm skeptical about an alien commander as well. Like everyone said, having two very distinct sides was part of the appeal of NS. I don't think you need a commander in order to implement tunnels – the gorge can certainly handle it.

    Speaking of the tunnels, I'm curious about how you will actually integrate them. Supposing that you can build an entrance and an exit anywhere on the map, how do you bridge the two? Are they literally connected by a tunnel, that's generated in the map? Do you teleport to a preexisting tunnel "instance" and teleport back out the other end?

    What I like about the tunnel idea as opposed to the phase gate is that the phase gate would cycle you through different parts of the map, whereas tunnels would be a direct shortcut between two areas. They're two different ways of approaching the same concept (how to move quickly across the map), and in that sense fit the opposing styles of play of Aliens vs Marines.

    You mentioned the welding "mini-game" last week, perhaps tunnels are a way to implement a digging mini-game. Just a thought.

    I agree with you guys that tunnels could create a lot of atmosphere. The sphincter idea, or that of an open wound you would enter is very cool and alien-like. I can see the inside of the tunnel having fleshy pulsating walls, as if you were walking through intestines, similar in a way to the devour effect.
    Rubber*ducky or Rubert in NS, Kaelwe in WoW, and too many other sobriquets...
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  • Dark_SoulDark_Soul Hive King Join Date: 2003-11-11 Member: 22527Members Posts: 1,051
    edited December 2007
    Hmm, I don't really feel the idea of an alien commander
    the charm of the game imo is the total difference between the two teams, it's a different style of playing and I myself like to switch between these two styles
    sometimes I feel like playing as a marine, sometimes I feel like playing as an alien
    but giving them both commanders will take away the different gameplay

    about the tubes, the craziest and sweetest thing would be if gorges could dig tunnels themselves starting on certain spots in the walls or floors (spots weakened by the infestation?)
    a gorge could use the spit attack to dig further into the tunnel, making him vulnerable by having his butt pointed at the entrance and ready to get shot by marines who might hear or see his digging

    not sure how much freedom is possible, I guess the most realistic idea is that the tunnels are already there in the maps, and are pretty much vents filled with breakable surfaces, all lines up one after another

    hmmmmmmmm
  • _Null_Null Join Date: 2007-12-15 Member: 63165Members Posts: 2
    Tube idea:
    Very cool but make it alien only. Aliens can't use the PG so marines can't use the tubes either. Make it so that the tube would open up (like a flower) if an alien wants to enter it. This way it works just like a PG (marines need to click it too) = better balance.

    The alien commander:
    HELL NO, this would be a big mistake. You would take out a very big PLUS out of NS: diversity. NS is cool cause of the different playstyles between the two races and you realy should keep it that way. A gorge could build a tube as well. At point 1 it builds a tube. Then he must walk to point 2 to make the second tube. Only with 2 tube thingies the tube would work (only be build on infestation). Again just like a PG.

    Dynamic placement (hives and marine start):
    VERY COOL, this will make a map and playstyle alot better. With the current fixed hive and marine starting points, its too easy to just rush them and win a game. Plus you always knows where a race sits on the map.

    With dynamic placement you would certanly add some more map exploring and tactics making in the game. Only make sure the two races wont spawn too close to each other. Also where will the aliens be building the 2 other hyves? Currently they can only do it in a hive room. How would you fix that?

    Can't wait to see some (in game) movies to see how your progress of the game is going. Though postcast is cool, I would like to see some stuff too (like the infestation demo, which is so cool).

    Goodluck to you and happy x-mas and a great NS2008!!!!
  • TestosteronTestosteron Join Date: 2006-12-29 Member: 59299Members, Constellation Posts: 82
    The tube idea is great but what happens on a spaceship? On the ground there is enough space for a tunnel but what does a tunnel through void look like?

    And I hope the introduction of an alien commander will not wipe away all the differences between the two races because that was one of the things that made NS unique among games like CS (where both teams are more or less the same).

    Oh right, I did a German summarization again: http://www.lerk.de/2007/12/alien-commander-und-tunnel/
  • DepotDepot The ModFather Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7956Members Posts: 6,411 Fully active user
    QUOTE(Testosteron @ Dec 15 2007, 06:10 AM) »
    The tube idea is great but what happens on a spaceship? On the ground there is enough space for a tunnel but what does a tunnel through void look like?

    And I hope the introduction of an alien commander will not wipe away all the differences between the two races because that was one of the things that made NS unique among games like CS (where both teams are more or less the same).

    Oh right, I did a German summarization again: http://www.lerk.de/2007/12/alien-commander-und-tunnel/

    Thanks for this.
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  • JorlackJorlack Join Date: 2007-02-21 Member: 60077Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1
    I think the whole alien commander idea is kinda cool but it should be different from the marines.
    What if you had something like a "Queen Alien". Basically a gorge that has a slightly larger model and appearance than a normal gorge (Elected like a commander). This queen can evolve like other aliens but when its in gorge mode it has several options not available to other gorges like maybe several advanced structures or improved abilities. And let the queen have a larger percentage of the res as its paid out to all the aliens. Maybe even the power to borrow res from one alien to use for itself or give to another alien so they can upgrade faster. And let it remain mobile even in command mode that way the aliens don't lose any speed.

    Just a fun idea that I had on the fly while listening to the podcast.
  • asmodeeasmodee Join Date: 2007-06-20 Member: 61317Members, Constellation Posts: 179 Advanced user
    Most games the 2 teams are very similar, NS is great BECAUSE THEY ARE SO DIFFERENT.

    Anytime I see suggestions to make the teams similar, even if it's something as simple as gorge mines, I cringe. If anything you should be trying to make the teams more different, not similar.

  • TiletronTiletron Join Date: 2004-08-27 Member: 30955Members Posts: 26
    edited December 2007
    In regards to the idea of the Alien Commander what about a creature that would be like an avatar; a manifestion that commanded the will of all the hives, spawned once the infestation of the map had reached a certain degree (ok its probably like a cerebrate, but it was the devs who started the StarCraft references). At this point a player would be nominated by a voting system to assume the role of the avatar in the same manner as the commander for the Frontiersmen.

    The avatar could also incorporate the idea for Frontiersmen of the mech thread, existing as a balance once they reached a certain level of influence or technology.
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  • slayer.faithslayer.faith Join Date: 2007-12-10 Member: 63127Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 79 Advanced user
    edited December 2007
    One of the things i love about NS is the radically different sides, so I think it would subtract from it if the Aliens had a commander that was similar to Marine one. That would make it more 'normal' (which would be a bad thing). smile-fix.gif

    Having said that, adding some kind of overview mode for the aliens would be cool if it was _different_ to the marine one. Maybe it could be tied into the 'hive' (so you use the hive as a limited comm chair, 1 per hive) so aliens could 'attach' to the hive and do...... something... (im just not sure what yet).

    Maybe aliens can 'suckle' the hive to get Hive Sight (Marine motion tracking in a radius of that hive).

    Or maybe you can be 'absorbed' by the hive and you can spawn yourself somewhere else. Eg, you merge into the hive and then pick your 'respawn' point, where you reform as an egg and emerge as a skulk (with time to 'hatch' from the egg related to distance from the hive).

    Or maybe you can interact with the hive and 'buy' temp powers (by giving your res to a hive, or even better to a gorge). (I think the old gorge needs some res-ie love, or atleast some way to get res quicker).

    Having been anti-alien commander, I think I am still anti a single alien commander (thats too much like what makes the marine side special), but some way to use the hive/rts view would be cool (but please make it very different to the marine side, incase i didnt mention that point). smile-fix.gif




    As to welding, I have found that a lot of newbies have trouble with the welder and try and use it to 'build' stuff once they get one. Just a FYI.
  • afratnikovafratnikov Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18931Members Posts: 248
    edited December 2007
    I hope you are not surprised with the reaction to the announcement of alien comm! Like many, i am concerned of the two sides becoming similar. Even the tunnel seems too much like a PG to me (though i can see it be a cool and necessary upgrade).

    If your goal was to spark excitement into NS2 community: Mission Accomplished! Since there is basically no information on alien comm, everyone will be speculating what it could be like, most assuming it will be similar to marine comm. It's gonna be some "fun" times until after Christmas when you reveal a little more! (Maybe it was a mistake calling it "alien commander." Calling it "hive-mind" or "overlord" would have created completely different associations!)

    I'm sure you'll come up with something great for the aliens though! Something that will balance the game and make them unique - there are infinite possibilities.

    Oh, and i'll get the transcript done sometime this weekend...
  • SifrightSifright Join Date: 2005-01-21 Member: 36514Members Posts: 3
    From the context i would say he is asking the devs and i very much have to agree have they even played ns since version 1.04 was out? alot of their comments in the pod cast scream the fact that they haven't
  • INKEDOUTINKEDOUT Join Date: 2007-06-23 Member: 61343Members Posts: 270
    edited December 2007
    I wrote all this last night, but sleep tempted me to bed before I posted it...

    These pod casts are getting better and better, can’t wait to see the finished product!

    Commander having more direct control is a good idea!

    Woooo money! Well done guys!

    Procedurally generated hive rooms sounds really cool! I guess this means that hive rooms, and the whole map in fact would be designed as a pretty finished space station (or what ever), as apposed to a mess of a space station, and then the DI and procedurally generated hive rooms will Alien up the place, trash it basically??

    3rd race YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROBOTS WITH LAZER EYES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Alien commander... shoot a dirty look... Not sure about this one, I like the fact that there is such a contrast between the two teams, but I can see how it could make the game more evenly matched and easier for new players to understand and learn the Alien side. But I always saw the combination of a Hive Mind and a gorge as being as good as, but not equal to, a commander. I just thought that the hive mind needed a bit of cleaning up, like some way of actually showing aliens what they should be heading for, maybe the DI could do this via some kind of directional flow, like blood vessels flowing in a certain direction towards enemies or structures that needed healing, or something, just a crazy off the wall idea. It would be a shame to loose that contrast between teams, but I suppose improved HUD and graphics could compensate for this and emphasize the differences between the races...

    I do however wonder what this commander would do other than placing doorways for tubes? Perhaps some kind of genetic decisions, like extra “mutations” that the alien team can develop, or would that just make it a marines team with a different skin? I don’t think the Aliens should be constrained by a command chair, if possible. Perhaps keeping his or her duties to a minimum, like placing tube doors and way points and that would be it, that way they could stay out on the battlefield and actually do things?? I also think it would be cool to make a command alien look different in some way (perhaps a big purple mane tounge.gif). The Alien commander should be called something different, like Hive Mind controller or something, just to build up that contrast between the two teams. Will they also have some control of where DI grows??

    The Alien technology sounds cool; I remember talking about that on the forum. Some way of moving around in the DI and being protected by it. The thought that has come to mind about tubes is what happens to a player who is in the tubes when all the doors are destroyed, do they just die, drowning in the goo of the destroyed DI?? If so, could alien commanders just use this to lure marines in, get all the aliens out and then destroy all the doorways. Actually that makes the whole idea of going DI sound kinda cool, like really a domain of the aliens. It would put marines off going into the DI unless they could hold a doorway open in some way.

    Just reading the forum, I think people are forgetting that tunnels can only go where DI is, so if marines have a way of killing DI, like the team have hinted upon in the past, then tunnels aren’t going to just spring up in marine base or allow the aliens to pop up all over the map, just in places where DI is. That means if DI can’t go through a welded doorway, then aliens can’t get through it.

    I see the tunnels as small, like vents, but with a very organic feeling to them. I can picture the doors looking like the tops of the alien eggs from the alien films, but being camouflaged into the DI, with just the join lines visible. They would have a horrible squelching sound when they opened, which would give Marines a type of warning that aliens are near by and might get attacked, perhaps then if an SC is built near a door, it becomes (more) silent. The doors should not open automatically, or at least when you are in the tunnels, as this would mean that you could not wait at doors for marines to walk past. But I worry that having to use the use key when you need to get into one of these doors may be a pain, especially if a group of marines is firing on your tail. Perhaps aliens should be able to see out of the doors, but you can’t see into them unless you have a light on or are standing really close or something...

    Over all, defiantly the coolest pod cast yet!

    EDIT:
    QUOTE(Sifright @ Dec 15 2007, 03:58 PM) »
    From the context i would say he is asking the devs and i very much have to agree have they even played ns since version 1.04 was out? alot of their comments in the pod cast scream the fact that they haven't


    Ummm... What comments exactly? It all just sounds like exciting new stuff to me, which is all cool!
    Go listen to the last pod cast and then edit that comment... they were on a server showing investors, they can't have not played their own game. That would be silly. Especially if they are using it as the basis for NS2...
    INKEDOUT (Watch this space)
  • SifrightSifright Join Date: 2005-01-21 Member: 36514Members Posts: 3
    Ok, I'l write a run down of things that make me aprehensive about ns2, What makes NS great is the difference between the teams it's not just RED vs BLUE, The teams are incredibly different in the ways they work, Aliens being melee based have to ambush and learn fast movement skills so they can close down the marines fast, The marines having ranged weapons have to use them to their advantage as they die fast once aliens are in range to attack.

    Firstly they talk about balance in ns, and how putting an alien commander will balance the teams out, But NS3.2 is the most balanced version of ns bar NONE. obviously i can't say what their game is like because i have no specifics about ns except what they tell us which is incredibly vague, like BUS/Nexus was and we all know what came of those o/

    Secondly the idea about "Flesh tubes/ hallways" Aliens already have a way for fast reaction to marine attacks on hives with using either an mc or hive to move from hive spot to hive spot, If you give aliens a "Alien PG" You will again be removing a core difference between the teams Aliens are supposed to be >fast< and able to roam quickly, Marines are slow but capable of holding an area with more ease, pgs allowing marines to move around quickly to defend key spots on the map.

    Thirdly commets about bast and areas that the commander can't help marines in like the "underwater tunnel" That has been around in every version of bast since it was released, it just seems like they are going to ignore everything that made ns great and go from scratch instead of working with what ns1 has and improving upon.

    Finally, I can't help but feel the game is going to be dumbed down to give it more mass apeal.
  • John TopJohn Top Join Date: 2007-10-06 Member: 62560Members Posts: 39
    edited December 2007
    QUOTE(Sifright @ Dec 15 2007, 12:59 PM) »
    Firstly they talk about balance in ns, and how putting an alien commander will balance the teams out, But NS3.2 is the most balanced version of ns bar NONE. obviously i can't say what their game is like because i have no specifics about ns except what they tell us which is incredibly vague, like BUS/Nexus was and we all know what came of those o/


    1) They said will balance the RESOURCE MODEL out, not teams.

    2) NS 3.2 is the most balanced version, yes... but it's also the most lifeless version.

    QUOTE(Sifright @ Dec 15 2007, 12:59 PM) »
    Secondly the idea about "Flesh tubes/ hallways" Aliens already have a way for fast reaction to marine attacks on hives with using either an mc or hive to move from hive spot to hive spot, If you give aliens a "Alien PG" You will again be removing a core difference between the teams Aliens are supposed to be >fast< and able to roam quickly, Marines are slow but capable of holding an area with more ease, pgs allowing marines to move around quickly to defend key spots on the map.


    This allows the aliens a chance to get back to the frontlines similar to phasegates, which MC's don't do.

    QUOTE(Sifright @ Dec 15 2007, 12:59 PM) »
    Thirdly commets about bast and areas that the commander can't help marines in like the "underwater tunnel" That has been around in every version of bast since it was released, it just seems like they are going to ignore everything that made ns great and go from scratch instead of working with what ns1 has and improving upon.


    Like atmosphere and the maps having an "emotional" quality to them... which they adressed went a little haywire with NS1 (2.0+) maps and are addressing in NS2.



    Now for my feedback;

    I already see a bunch of people tinking "inside" the box. Alien commander doesn't have to have a top-down perspective per-say. In early releases, the gorge was the "unofficial" commander for aliens. AT MOST there were 2 gorges, but only in certain, rare instances would you have 2 because of the resource structure.

    I can see it working as the babbler being a playable class. The gorge IS the alien commander in a sense. No he doesn't issue orders, but gets to use "hive" resources as a seperate team-earnable income, (the marine team gets a team income, and NS2 is giving marines the chance to "buy" their weapons, thus providing a seperate, "player" income.)

    The gamplay would be tweaked to prevent griefing of course, and the other "gorges" would be babblers... spawn of the gorge (think mobile IP) that has limited build capabilities using their own resources instead of "hive" resources. I can see it working perfectly, especially if a hive-pool of resources is implimented better into NS2 (a player dies and all those resources DON"T get lost, just reallocated to the hive temporarily until the player respawns.)

    As far as the tubes... I LOVE the old feedwater tunnel, especially as a marine. I can see how easily mistaken people are when thinking of NS2 as being a shiny NS1, with all the same systems in place, but people are already talking about camping in the sphincter-halls when Charlie and Max already said it'd be tied to DI. No DI... no "tubes"... simple as that. The tube should just seal off at one end when the DI is "killed" and allow the Alien(s) a chance to get out and possibly get damaged over time (varies depending on length) if there is no "vent" ("exit" of the tube) to allow carbon emissions (whatever, I'm thinking of a cool explanation for the dmg,) to tick the alien'(s) health away, akin to being under water for too long, and being restored over time once you leave.
    "... why things are the way they are, and, you know, what the cake is about." - Charlie "Flayra" Cleveland
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