Private_ColemanPhD in Video GamesJoin Date: 2002-11-07Member: 7510Members
<!--quoteo(post=1661296:date=Nov 20 2007, 06:12 AM:name=Prefix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Prefix @ Nov 20 2007, 06:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661296"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There will always be enough food and such for humans.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1661288:date=Nov 20 2007, 10:05 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scythe @ Nov 20 2007, 10:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661288"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Eve Online is already training the new generation of asteroid farmers, happy to stare at a piece of rock as it gradually gets smaller and smaller, incrementally increasing their wealth.
Oh boy!
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hell I'd be happy to do that if I got paid for it in real life. You'd get all the chicks, too.
"So what do you do?" "I mine." "...oh" "IN SPACE!" "Oh my God I am instantly attracted to you."
<!--quoteo(post=1661239:date=Nov 19 2007, 11:48 PM:name=Xyth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xyth @ Nov 19 2007, 11:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661239"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You seem to completely lack the concept of "funded research". If something isn't good yet, you research it more instead of ditching the idea.
Biofuel can be made from any plant eh? So, lets just cut down the forests in order to fuel our cars? The amount of fuel we use in a single day is just magnitudes larger then what we could hope to be able to produce. On the other hand, we already have the base technology of the electric motor (Which is more powerful then it's gasoline counterparts) and the solar panel (which just needs to be researched more then break 50% efficiency and reduce production costs). As far as energy storage go, we are working on the super-capacitor right now, the only thing we lack is a very good dielectric material but I'm sure it's only a matter of time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I get the concept quite easily, it's you who are failing to grasp the fact that biofuels are simply more viable that giant solar panels and replacing every vehicle based on combustion with an electric counterpart. And I really don't know where you're getting the forest idea from. I really do mean every plant can be used to make ethanol. Cut grass, wood waste, crop waste, anything.
Coleman, a vat, some plant material, and some microbes, and you've got your ethanol. It kinda costs energy to make solar panels and electric motors as well, so I can't see how that's a big issue for either side. I also fail to see how it's deeply flawed. I doubt it's perfect, but the plant is simply taking carbon that's already in the atmosphere, and you're returning the same carbon.
<!--quoteo(post=1661310:date=Nov 20 2007, 09:51 AM:name=Aldaris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Aldaris @ Nov 20 2007, 09:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661310"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Coleman, a vat, some plant material, and some microbes, and you've got your ethanol. It kinda costs energy to make solar panels and electric motors as well, so I can't see how that's a big issue for either side. I also fail to see how it's deeply flawed. I doubt it's perfect, but the plant is simply taking carbon that's already in the atmosphere, and you're returning the same carbon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, plants respire as well as photosynthesize. When they lack sunlight they will only respire.
<!--quoteo(post=1661310:date=Nov 20 2007, 09:51 AM:name=Aldaris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Aldaris @ Nov 20 2007, 09:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661310"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I get the concept quite easily, it's you who are failing to grasp the fact that biofuels are simply more viable that giant solar panels and replacing every vehicle based on combustion with an electric counterpart. And I really don't know where you're getting the forest idea from. I really do mean every plant can be used to make ethanol. Cut grass, wood waste, crop waste, anything.
Coleman, a vat, some plant material, and some microbes, and you've got your ethanol. It kinda costs energy to make solar panels and electric motors as well, so I can't see how that's a big issue for either side. I also fail to see how it's deeply flawed. I doubt it's perfect, but the plant is simply taking carbon that's already in the atmosphere, and you're returning the same carbon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://greyfalcon.net/ethanol.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
You are assuming that we'd have to create an entirely new crop area specifically for this ethanol production. If Aldaris is right (I haven't checked but no reason to disbelieve, really) in that essentially any waste plant matter can be turned into ethanol (even if it's not the most efficient method), every garden, park, cropfield and sports stadium in America (or anywhere) can contribute to the production, making the need for one single huge corn field irrelevant.
But yeah, I personally want solar power. Just because it's cool and cuts out the middle man (since plants convert sunlight into energy, burning plants for energy is like using solar power by proxy...which holds true for any energy, I guess).
<!--quoteo(post=1661329:date=Nov 20 2007, 02:08 PM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(X_Stickman @ Nov 20 2007, 02:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661329"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are assuming that we'd have to create an entirely new crop area specifically for this ethanol production. If Aldaris is right (I haven't checked but no reason to disbelieve, really) in that essentially any waste plant matter can be turned into ethanol (even if it's not the most efficient method), every garden, park, cropfield and sports stadium in America (or anywhere) can contribute to the production, making the need for one single huge corn field irrelevant.
But yeah, I personally want solar power. Just because it's cool and cuts out the middle man (since plants convert sunlight into energy, burning plants for energy is like using solar power by proxy...which holds true for any energy, I guess).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seemed to have missed the point, even if we used every corn field for specifically ethanol creation (which would be stupid because we eat what we grow) it would still add up to nowhere near what would be required. Infact, if we even add in lawn clippings (From 1 lawn would probably get you as much plant material as 2 stalks of corn, honestly) we would still be incredibly short of the requirement.
You know what else? Corn DESTROYS the fields it's grown on, after a few rounds the dirt is useless. If we used switch-grass (which is slightly better then corn in growing requirements) we would then have to make that many new fields, since we don't grow it for any reason right now.
If we went the electric route, it's not like we would recall every non-electric car in a day, I just think more research should be dropped into that route instead of goddamn ethanol.
<!--quoteo(post=1661312:date=Nov 20 2007, 03:49 PM:name=Skyrage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Skyrage @ Nov 20 2007, 03:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661312"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, plants respire as well as photosynthesize. When they lack sunlight they will only respire.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yep, I know, what's your point? Respiration has nothing to do with this. When you burn something, you're taking the carbon that's trapped, and returning it to where it came from, simply part of the Carbon cycle.
(Btw, I am 100% behind the "Lets get us the ###### to Mars!", but I am a SciFi geek and think we should be colonizing other planets for any damn reason.)
Comments
Okay thanks for the tip man i'll keep it in mind
Oh boy!
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hell I'd be happy to do that if I got paid for it in real life. You'd get all the chicks, too.
"So what do you do?"
"I mine."
"...oh"
"IN SPACE!"
"Oh my God I am instantly attracted to you."
This is why we need space travel.
Biofuel can be made from any plant eh? So, lets just cut down the forests in order to fuel our cars? The amount of fuel we use in a single day is just magnitudes larger then what we could hope to be able to produce. On the other hand, we already have the base technology of the electric motor (Which is more powerful then it's gasoline counterparts) and the solar panel (which just needs to be researched more then break 50% efficiency and reduce production costs). As far as energy storage go, we are working on the super-capacitor right now, the only thing we lack is a very good dielectric material but I'm sure it's only a matter of time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get the concept quite easily, it's you who are failing to grasp the fact that biofuels are simply more viable that giant solar panels and replacing every vehicle based on combustion with an electric counterpart. And I really don't know where you're getting the forest idea from. I really do mean every plant can be used to make ethanol. Cut grass, wood waste, crop waste, anything.
Coleman, a vat, some plant material, and some microbes, and you've got your ethanol. It kinda costs energy to make solar panels and electric motors as well, so I can't see how that's a big issue for either side. I also fail to see how it's deeply flawed. I doubt it's perfect, but the plant is simply taking carbon that's already in the atmosphere, and you're returning the same carbon.
Actually, plants respire as well as photosynthesize. When they lack sunlight they will only respire.
Coleman, a vat, some plant material, and some microbes, and you've got your ethanol. It kinda costs energy to make solar panels and electric motors as well, so I can't see how that's a big issue for either side. I also fail to see how it's deeply flawed. I doubt it's perfect, but the plant is simply taking carbon that's already in the atmosphere, and you're returning the same carbon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="http://greyfalcon.net/ethanol.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
You are assuming that we'd have to create an entirely new crop area specifically for this ethanol production. If Aldaris is right (I haven't checked but no reason to disbelieve, really) in that essentially any waste plant matter can be turned into ethanol (even if it's not the most efficient method), every garden, park, cropfield and sports stadium in America (or anywhere) can contribute to the production, making the need for one single huge corn field irrelevant.
But yeah, I personally want solar power. Just because it's cool and cuts out the middle man (since plants convert sunlight into energy, burning plants for energy is like using solar power by proxy...which holds true for any energy, I guess).
But yeah, I personally want solar power. Just because it's cool and cuts out the middle man (since plants convert sunlight into energy, burning plants for energy is like using solar power by proxy...which holds true for any energy, I guess).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seemed to have missed the point, even if we used every corn field for specifically ethanol creation (which would be stupid because we eat what we grow) it would still add up to nowhere near what would be required. Infact, if we even add in lawn clippings (From 1 lawn would probably get you as much plant material as 2 stalks of corn, honestly) we would still be incredibly short of the requirement.
You know what else? Corn DESTROYS the fields it's grown on, after a few rounds the dirt is useless. If we used switch-grass (which is slightly better then corn in growing requirements) we would then have to make that many new fields, since we don't grow it for any reason right now.
If we went the electric route, it's not like we would recall every non-electric car in a day, I just think more research should be dropped into that route instead of goddamn ethanol.
Yep, I know, what's your point? Respiration has nothing to do with this. When you burn something, you're taking the carbon that's trapped, and returning it to where it came from, simply part of the Carbon cycle.
Check out the WP page (And more importantly the links to the studies) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol" target="_blank">Here</a>.
The other option that is often brought up is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel" target="_blank">Biodiesel</a>.
Again, if you actually are interested in the facts, check out the sources that both of those articles link to.
Enjoy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
(Btw, I am 100% behind the "Lets get us the ###### to Mars!", but I am a SciFi geek and think we should be colonizing other planets for any damn reason.)