<!--QuoteBegin--Plaguebearer+Dec 12 2002, 04:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Plaguebearer @ Dec 12 2002, 04:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->re: that green water: I'm not using that texture anymore. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
This morning I'm putting the final (I hope) touches on what should be the release candidate. I hope to get some playtesting done on Gridlock, and if all is well, release this puppy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed - and as I write this the PTs of this amazing map are installing the map (and strife <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> )onto thier computer. For anyone waiting to play -- Europa has some of the most intense gameplay out there. It is smaller then hera and that works out to its advantage. Massive battles in small areas = insane. I have a feeling this ones going to be popular when its released.
Small is good for Marines, bad for Kharaa, at least the way the game is coded now for two major reasons:
marines outspawn aliens easily siege cannon range to hives
Personally I prefer maps where the actual hives themselves cannot be sieged from adjoining rooms - only the defensive structures built at entrances to the hive room should be in range of the siege cannons and the hive's death should be in the hands of the actual marines.
Maps like Hera are so ghetto right now with Marines being able to siege two to three hives at the same time from certain places on the map.
I think the ideal map is not too large but one where the hives are spread out and isolated from the central areas of the map where it is easy for Marines to get an unfair geographical advantage due to the siege cannons or a small map where Marines get an unfair time advantage because they can simply outspawn the Kharaa until they can push them right back into their hive with a dedicated Marine rush strategy.
Anyway, that's just my opinion from experience playing over 100 games on pub and private servers. I hope it helps. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hmmm... that idea may be valid, but then again maybe not. I haven't seen the actualy layout for the map... have you, JRock? So its difficult to judge how it will play... there are so many other factors affecting Alien/Marine balance in a map (vents, entrances, res placement), that the size is really kind of insignificant. Also, when they say 'small' I think that's pretty relative.
Also, JRock, this isn't the first time we've heard people say 'I've played 100 games I'm no n00b'. I won't consider your opinion based on how much you play (I assume, if you're using these forums, you play NS enough to care to post here!)
those screenshots look great, cant wait to test out the map <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--JRock+Dec 12 2002, 09:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JRock @ Dec 12 2002, 09:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Small is good for Marines, bad for Kharaa, at least the way the game is coded now for two major reasons:
marines outspawn aliens easily siege cannon range to hives<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That may be true in some smaller maps - but the closest hive to the MS has this <i>insane</i> elevator (I nicknamed it "the coffin") that the marines must use before gaining access to the hive. Once the marines are in, what I call the coffin, they are extremely vulnerable. The ride up isnt too short either - it is long enough for skulks to assemable outside and attack them as they are coming up. Eariler today there were 6 marines in the coffin, 3 skulks (one being me) took them all out before the marines even knew we were in the thing. The coffin = pwn.
Any point where a seige can cuase trouble to a hive, the aliens should already have. There are a fair amount of nodes around the map so the aliens can make smaller bases to stop marine seige expansion. Thats what I do when im gorging on this map.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Marines get an unfair time advantage because they can simply outspawn the Kharaa until they can push them right back into their hive with a dedicated Marine rush strategy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's true on any map. However on Europa various things do slow down the marines enough for 1-2 skukls to spawn and join the skulks already out on the field in order to attack/ambush.
Looks great man, perhaps it will make official <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, a tip for the broken pipe room. As the pipe stands, it looks like someone just took a slice out, (as you did I expect using that lovely clip tool <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Try deforming the straight piece a bit, like have it drooping or something. It just doesn't look quite right otherwise <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
there ya go, it's released.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *runs in circles around Plaguebearer and yells* "YOU ARE MY HERO! *g* <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
GREAT downloading it right now! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I am pleased to announce that as of tonight ns_europa will (finally) go on regular rotation. Thanks again to PB for such a great map and all the EC groupies who came to test.
As of tonight, it goes on rotation so if your a regular there youll get to play it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hi there. looked at it and played some rounds with some bots. just some little nitpiky stuff.
Marine Spawn:
Kinda loud in there can´t hear aliens apporaching Missing some textures on 2 consols, right next to the command chair Hard to build below the glass window, so basicly this is wasted space.
Thermal-Shaft:
You dont die if you fall in there. havent tried to build anything there, forgot to check.
Hydrotank hive:
The textures on the pipes are REALLY blurred and bad looking
The Big Lift:
Texture on the liftside looks black when lift is up.
Overall interesting layout and location. some waterdrops or such would have been nice! Also The texture and lightning quality varies throughout the map. not to bad tough. nothing that hurts gameplay. looking forward to play it online! Kepp it up. Can´t wait to fight in the cargo bay, looks like this will be a hardfought area.
All the drips and stuff I pulled, as particle systems eat CPU time like crazy. I couldn't keep myself from yanking those two spore vents though <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The blurriness of the texturing on the pipes derives from using a smaller texture stretched up to size. It was a tradeoff for file size. As for the lift being black, that's due to the HL engine's method of lighting the map in a static state. I =could= have filled the shaft the elevator is in with lights and gotten around it, but it would look crappy then, for other reasons.
Didn't die in the thermal shaft? Everyone in testing did.
<!--QuoteBegin--Purelace+Dec 18 2002, 12:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Purelace @ Dec 18 2002, 12:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I really like that claw in the cargo storage, is that a model?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, the claw is a model - the cargo containers are models, the chairs are models, the little spore vent thingies are models...
A "bug" I found.. I was looking around and fell down into the glass "aquarium", (right behind comm chair) so I looked around and found a ladder. (YAY) Sadly, I went to climb up.. and.. and.. wait! It wouldn't let me climb up!!! So I ended up killing myself.
Anyway, my "problems" with this map. Way.. WAY... WAY... WAY too small. Also, the first and what seems to be the only double-resource nodes.. is RIGHT NEXT to the marine start! So the marines can easily grab it with hardly a problem, since there's only one vent, which is a .. ahem to get to. Also, if you build sieges in that room, you can easily take out a hive, and I think a second one. It's a pretty map, but way too small for anything to play unless sieges were disabled. Marines can easily take control of this map with a few well-placed sieges. Not to mention, that two hives are practically sitting next to each other. If the aliens start in either one off of the sewer, they are screwed. :/
My other problem was the ready room.. very pretty, but were the automatic opening doors necessary? Please scrap these.. I'd like to be able to join a team, not watch the doors slowly open. :/
<!--QuoteBegin--Tazol+Dec 18 2002, 03:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tazol @ Dec 18 2002, 03:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A "bug" I found.. I was looking around and fell down into the glass "aquarium", (right behind comm chair) so I looked around and found a ladder. (YAY) Sadly, I went to climb up.. and.. and.. wait! It wouldn't let me climb up!!! So I ended up killing myself. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You didn't try hard enough then. You have to hop onto the ladder.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Anyway, my "problems" with this map. Way.. WAY... WAY... WAY too small. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By comparison, the only rooms that make Eclipse larger than Europa are the maintenance and command hives. Other than that, Europa is the same size as Eclipse. Go figure.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My other problem was the ready room.. very pretty, but were the automatic opening doors necessary? Please scrap these.. I'd like to be able to join a team, not watch the doors slowly open. :/<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Don't play with lamers. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Worse comes to worst, use the console commands 'jointeamone' and 'jointeamtwo' to instantly join marines or aliens.
2. The bubbles' lack of additive properties is a NS bug. Not a map bug.
3. Not all the sporevents fume. I kept particles to a minimum in this map to keep CPU usage down. I could have thrown drips and sprays and gas spouts and everything everywhere... and made it unplayable. Decided not to.
Very nice PB. I look forward to a proper game on Europa. The vents look like they could be very usefull. Excellent job with the windows and the skybox (no sign of the readyroom).
I *loved* the robot arm model, may I please use that in one of my maps?
<!--QuoteBegin--Plaguebearer+Dec 18 2002, 09:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Plaguebearer @ Dec 18 2002, 09:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Tazol+Dec 18 2002, 03:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tazol @ Dec 18 2002, 03:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A "bug" I found.. I was looking around and fell down into the glass "aquarium", (right behind comm chair) so I looked around and found a ladder. (YAY) Sadly, I went to climb up.. and.. and.. wait! It wouldn't let me climb up!!! So I ended up killing myself. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You didn't try hard enough then. You have to hop onto the ladder.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Anyway, my "problems" with this map. Way.. WAY... WAY... WAY too small. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By comparison, the only rooms that make Eclipse larger than Europa are the maintenance and command hives. Other than that, Europa is the same size as Eclipse. Go figure.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My other problem was the ready room.. very pretty, but were the automatic opening doors necessary? Please scrap these.. I'd like to be able to join a team, not watch the doors slowly open. :/<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I still can't get up the ladder, yet a friend of mine can.. dunno why. I tried jumping on to it, looking up and trying to climb.. nothing.
And you're comparing your map to Eclipse.. and you take out the TWO things that make Eclipse Eclipse.. the hives! So no, they are NOT the same size AT ALL. If you take out "the maintenance and command hives" you wouldn't even be able to play Eclipse, so don't bother comparing the two. And just to show.
And yours(on the next post).
And if you don't want to scrap the doors, fine.. not my problem.
Comments
OMFG ORGASM!!!!!!!!!!!!
This morning I'm putting the final (I hope) touches on what should be the release candidate. I hope to get some playtesting done on Gridlock, and if all is well, release this puppy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed - and as I write this the PTs of this amazing map are installing the map (and strife <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> )onto thier computer. For anyone waiting to play -- Europa has some of the most intense gameplay out there. It is smaller then hera and that works out to its advantage. Massive battles in small areas = insane. I have a feeling this ones going to be popular when its released.
marines outspawn aliens easily
siege cannon range to hives
Personally I prefer maps where the actual hives themselves cannot be sieged from adjoining rooms - only the defensive structures built at entrances to the hive room should be in range of the siege cannons and the hive's death should be in the hands of the actual marines.
Maps like Hera are so ghetto right now with Marines being able to siege two to three hives at the same time from certain places on the map.
I think the ideal map is not too large but one where the hives are spread out and isolated from the central areas of the map where it is easy for Marines to get an unfair geographical advantage due to the siege cannons or a small map where Marines get an unfair time advantage because they can simply outspawn the Kharaa until they can push them right back into their hive with a dedicated Marine rush strategy.
Anyway, that's just my opinion from experience playing over 100 games on pub and private servers. I hope it helps. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also, JRock, this isn't the first time we've heard people say 'I've played 100 games I'm no n00b'. I won't consider your opinion based on how much you play (I assume, if you're using these forums, you play NS enough to care to post here!)
marines outspawn aliens easily
siege cannon range to hives<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That may be true in some smaller maps - but the closest hive to the MS has this <i>insane</i> elevator (I nicknamed it "the coffin") that the marines must use before gaining access to the hive. Once the marines are in, what I call the coffin, they are extremely vulnerable. The ride up isnt too short either - it is long enough for skulks to assemable outside and attack them as they are coming up. Eariler today there were 6 marines in the coffin, 3 skulks (one being me) took them all out before the marines even knew we were in the thing. The coffin = pwn.
Any point where a seige can cuase trouble to a hive, the aliens should already have. There are a fair amount of nodes around the map so the aliens can make smaller bases to stop marine seige expansion. Thats what I do when im gorging on this map.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Marines get an unfair time advantage because they can simply outspawn the Kharaa until they can push them right back into their hive with a dedicated Marine rush strategy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's true on any map. However on Europa various things do slow down the marines enough for 1-2 skukls to spawn and join the skulks already out on the field in order to attack/ambush.
Anyway, a tip for the broken pipe room. As the pipe stands, it looks like someone just took a slice out, (as you did I expect using that lovely clip tool <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Try deforming the straight piece a bit, like have it drooping or something. It just doesn't look quite right otherwise <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
there ya go, it's released.
there ya go, it's released.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*runs in circles around Plaguebearer and yells* "YOU ARE MY HERO! *g* <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
198.77.205.24:27015 Nano-Gridlock 1.03 - [Evolutionarily Challenged]
As of tonight, it goes on rotation so if your a regular there youll get to play it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Marine Spawn:
Kinda loud in there can´t hear aliens apporaching
Missing some textures on 2 consols, right next to the command chair
Hard to build below the glass window, so basicly this is wasted space.
Thermal-Shaft:
You dont die if you fall in there. havent tried to build anything there, forgot to check.
Hydrotank hive:
The textures on the pipes are REALLY blurred and bad looking
The Big Lift:
Texture on the liftside looks black when lift is up.
Overall interesting layout and location. some waterdrops or such would have been nice! Also The texture and lightning quality varies throughout the map. not to bad tough. nothing that hurts gameplay. looking forward to play it online! Kepp it up. Can´t wait to fight in the cargo bay, looks like this will be a hardfought area.
The blurriness of the texturing on the pipes derives from using a smaller texture stretched up to size. It was a tradeoff for file size. As for the lift being black, that's due to the HL engine's method of lighting the map in a static state. I =could= have filled the shaft the elevator is in with lights and gotten around it, but it would look crappy then, for other reasons.
Didn't die in the thermal shaft? Everyone in testing did.
Yes, the claw is a model - the cargo containers are models, the chairs are models, the little spore vent thingies are models...
Anyway, my "problems" with this map. Way.. WAY... WAY... WAY too small. Also, the first and what seems to be the only double-resource nodes.. is RIGHT NEXT to the marine start! So the marines can easily grab it with hardly a problem, since there's only one vent, which is a .. ahem to get to. Also, if you build sieges in that room, you can easily take out a hive, and I think a second one. It's a pretty map, but way too small for anything to play unless sieges were disabled. Marines can easily take control of this map with a few well-placed sieges. Not to mention, that two hives are practically sitting next to each other. If the aliens start in either one off of the sewer, they are screwed. :/
My other problem was the ready room.. very pretty, but were the automatic opening doors necessary? Please scrap these.. I'd like to be able to join a team, not watch the doors slowly open. :/
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You didn't try hard enough then. You have to hop onto the ladder.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Anyway, my "problems" with this map. Way.. WAY... WAY... WAY too small.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By comparison, the only rooms that make Eclipse larger than Europa are the maintenance and command hives. Other than that, Europa is the same size as Eclipse. Go figure.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
My other problem was the ready room.. very pretty, but were the automatic opening doors necessary? Please scrap these.. I'd like to be able to join a team, not watch the doors slowly open. :/<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No.
2. The bubbles' lack of additive properties is a NS bug. Not a map bug.
3. Not all the sporevents fume. I kept particles to a minimum in this map to keep CPU usage down. I could have thrown drips and sprays and gas spouts and everything everywhere... and made it unplayable. Decided not to.
is it in rotation? are there any other servers running it?
and keep making maps man, we need more
I *loved* the robot arm model, may I please use that in one of my maps?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You didn't try hard enough then. You have to hop onto the ladder.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Anyway, my "problems" with this map. Way.. WAY... WAY... WAY too small.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By comparison, the only rooms that make Eclipse larger than Europa are the maintenance and command hives. Other than that, Europa is the same size as Eclipse. Go figure.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
My other problem was the ready room.. very pretty, but were the automatic opening doors necessary? Please scrap these.. I'd like to be able to join a team, not watch the doors slowly open. :/<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still can't get up the ladder, yet a friend of mine can.. dunno why. I tried jumping on to it, looking up and trying to climb.. nothing.
And you're comparing your map to Eclipse.. and you take out the TWO things that make Eclipse Eclipse.. the hives! So no, they are NOT the same size AT ALL. If you take out "the maintenance and command hives" you wouldn't even be able to play Eclipse, so don't bother comparing the two. And just to show.
And yours(on the next post).
And if you don't want to scrap the doors, fine.. not my problem.