Private_ColemanPhD in Video GamesJoin Date: 2002-11-07Member: 7510Members
edited September 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1649806:date=Sep 16 2007, 12:31 AM:name=KungFuDiscoMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Sep 16 2007, 12:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649806"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It could easily be me remembering wrong but it seems like it takes so much longer to charge up a sniper shot in FF than it did in TFC. If I wasn't lazy I might load up TFC and test it out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It takes at least double the time in FF.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see a lot of people getting huge scores as a spy, but I can't spy for nothin'... if I cloak, people see me. if I disguise, people tend to try shooting me anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just now, this one engineer was about to shoot at me but I threw a bag of ammo to him and he decided against it.
Then I threw him a grenade <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Spies have a time and a place, but if you find the enemy team is ready for spies you should do something else until they let their guard down. Defend your base from enemy spies by touching them, or play a different class.
Also keep in mind to never have your knife out unless you intend to use it. Not many people have caught on that the weapon seen in your hand is that corresponding with the slot of the class you are disguised as. For example, if I was disguised as a soldier and I had my knife out, other players would see me holding a crowbar.
If you have made it deep inside an enemy base, make it look like you are guarding something. Nobody questioned me when I was guarding the security switch on aardvark disguised as a soldier for instance, aiming towards the big ramp. Every now and then, flip the switch and cloak, then run back as a soldier looking alarmed and ready to help defend once again. Spy is more about helping the team out than getting the points. The best way to play the spy is to make sure the enemy team doesn't even know that your team has a spy.
If all else fails just wait a few weeks until people stop trying out new classes. I joined a server yesterday and my team had 4 spies. ;P
Also, try playing on friendly fire servers. If friendly fire is off, you can shoot your teammates without penalty, so a lot of people go around taking single shots at any "teammate" they come across. If it's actually a teammate, no harm done. If it's an enemy spy in disguise, spy discovered. Doing this on friendly fire servers will very quickly make the offending player very unpopular with his teammates.
Heh, I was playing as a HWG and I had this guy get pissed off at me for camping outside the front entrance of Shutdown:
Him: "Hey, didn't you read the manual? The HWG is a defensive class" Me: "But he's so overpowered I can play offy, so why not?" Him: "..."
Seriously HWG is the shiznits. They should nerf his jump or something so he can't get up as much bhop speed and can't jump round corners <i>while firing</i>. In fact they should just stop him from jumping altogether while firing.
Private_ColemanPhD in Video GamesJoin Date: 2002-11-07Member: 7510Members
<!--quoteo(post=1649835:date=Sep 16 2007, 07:04 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Sep 16 2007, 07:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649835"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Heh, I was playing as a HWG and I had this guy get pissed off at me for camping outside the front entrance of Shutdown:
Him: "Hey, didn't you read the manual? The HWG is a defensive class" Me: "But he's so overpowered I can play offy, so why not?" Him: "..."
Seriously HWG is the shiznits. They should nerf his jump or something so he can't get up as much bhop speed and can't jump round corners <i>while firing</i>. In fact they should just stop him from jumping altogether while firing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same with me, this guy told me off and said to 'defend from inside the base'.
<!--quoteo(post=1649810:date=Sep 16 2007, 02:26 AM:name=Private_Coleman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Private_Coleman @ Sep 16 2007, 02:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649810"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also keep in mind to never have your knife out unless you intend to use it. Not many people have caught on that the weapon seen in your hand is that corresponding with the slot of the class you are disguised as. For example, if I was disguised as a soldier and I had my knife out, other players would see me holding a crowbar.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Use that to your advantage in some servers. In league gaming, a player shows he or she is not a spy by swinging the crowbar. If the player doesn't swing the crowbar, then the player is probably a spy, and is going to get shot. By having it out, some players may just assume the swinging occurred when the defender wasn't looking.
<!--quoteo(post=1649575:date=Sep 15 2007, 12:39 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Sep 15 2007, 12:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649575"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I find this is moderatly offset by their "sets people on fire" attribute. If they were as powerful as a soldier rocket, a Pyro could kill you from far away with a rocket or from up close with his flamer. He'd be perfect, really.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->It's a medium-range weapon at best, with the arc. Or well, it was so slow previously it was a medium-range weapon then too, but at any range it's useless for doing damage. At most you'll frighten the enemy. Flamer could also use a tiny buff(like +1 damage per flame), I got within close range of a HW who was looken the other way and FLAME ON, yet he turned around and chewed me up after a second of fire.
Anyway, if you like Spy, play on well (the map). You can cloak through the water unseen and then out the same way; did it thrice and was only ever contested in my home base by some returning soldier. Also the tranq gun is amazing if you're sure enough of your aim that you can get a hit in; an enemy that can't move is a dead enemy.
I play Spy fairly well. Enter the enemy base using the alternate routes - running in from the front door gets you blasted. I don't really cloak at all, just disguise, deactivate security, sabotage SGs, steal the flag, etc. Your job as spy is to undermine the enemy defenses, and exposing yourself by knifing everything is usually not the best way to do that. When I'm spy and get shot, I just run away and change my disguise. Since there's blood spray regardless of whether FF is on, shooting people isn't really a reliable measure of whether they're a spy.
Best moment: I sabotaged two SGs in the ramp room, deactivated security, stole the flag, then set off the SGs I sabotaged. Half the team that came out to try and stop me got killed.
<!--quoteo(post=1649900:date=Sep 16 2007, 02:28 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Sep 16 2007, 02:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a medium-range weapon at best, with the arc. Or well, it was so slow previously it was a medium-range weapon then too, but at any range it's useless for doing damage. At most you'll frighten the enemy. Flamer could also use a tiny buff(like +1 damage per flame), I got within close range of a HW who was looken the other way and FLAME ON, yet he turned around and chewed me up after a second of fire.
Anyway, if you like Spy, play on well (the map). You can cloak through the water unseen and then out the same way; did it thrice and was only ever contested in my home base by some returning soldier. Also the tranq gun is amazing if you're sure enough of your aim that you can get a hit in; an enemy that can't move is a dead enemy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not supposed to just run up behind some guy and hold down the "POWER OF FIRE" button; you circle strafe the guy. He'll have no chance. Like you said, an enemy that can't move is a dead enemy. You're an enemy, so if you don't move, you're dead.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I play Spy fairly well. Enter the enemy base using the alternate routes - running in from the front door gets you blasted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I used to run in the front door all the time as a disguised spy in TFC. The trick was to run in backwards.
Private_ColemanPhD in Video GamesJoin Date: 2002-11-07Member: 7510Members
<!--quoteo(post=1649942:date=Sep 16 2007, 07:07 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Sep 16 2007, 07:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649942"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I used to run in the front door all the time as a disguised spy in TFC. The trick was to run in backwards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That be true, as long as you don't run backwards into a scout and lose your disguise without noticing, then run backwards into an enemy HWguy
there's blood spray no matter what, but if you shoot a teamie, he doesn't groan, but a disguised spy DOES groan when shot. of course, everyone groans on a friendly fire server.
can you make class-specific config files like in the old days? and is there a console command for the 'use last disguise' command for the spy? would be nice to have, like, mouse4 be my 'use last disguise' key for spy, and have it be 'detdispenser' for engy, etc.
<!--quoteo(post=1649908:date=Sep 16 2007, 10:11 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Sep 16 2007, 10:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649908"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're not supposed to just run up behind some guy and hold down the "POWER OF FIRE" button; you circle strafe the guy. He'll have no chance. Like you said, an enemy that can't move is a dead enemy. You're an enemy, so if you don't move, you're dead.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> In my defense, it was a rather narrow bridge, so if I'd circled around him the bulletspray would've pushed me off.
Soldiers IMBA, Spy ruined by 'cloak' and engineers have been nerfed. It doesn't feel like the Source engine either. Considering the graphics capabilities it's like playing a re-textured version of NEOTF TFC.
EDIT: Oh and the whole sniper power thing is a good idea, bit too long to get full power though, makes for pretty boring and under-powered snipers.
<!--quoteo(post=1649949:date=Sep 17 2007, 03:58 AM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Sep 17 2007, 03:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649949"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->can you make class-specific config files like in the old days?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There are blank .cfg's for reach class under FF/cfg, so I'd say the answer is yes.
Currently I'm really hating spies. They just pour into the base(s) by dozens, and no one seems to notice even the painfully obvious ones. But what I truly dislike is that even if I notice that someone is hacking my sentry, I can't kill them fast enough before they drop two nades and take it down with them - seems to me like the wimpy ssg is the culprit here.
The sentries also seem to have a huge blind spot, making it very easy to shoot them from behind corners with no fear of retaliation. And with the somewhat lengthy detection timer (which resets when you take cover), you have to babysit the damn thing 24/7. Not fun, tedious.
<!--quoteo(post=1650003:date=Sep 17 2007, 07:35 AM:name=Luukas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Luukas @ Sep 17 2007, 07:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1650003"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are blank .cfg's for reach class under FF/cfg, so I'd say the answer is yes.
Currently I'm really hating spies. They just pour into the base(s) by dozens, and no one seems to notice even the painfully obvious ones. But what I truly dislike is that even if I notice that someone is hacking my sentry, I can't kill them fast enough before they drop two nades and take it down with them - seems to me like the wimpy ssg is the culprit here.
The sentries also seem to have a huge blind spot, making it very easy to shoot them from behind corners with no fear of retaliation. And with the somewhat lengthy detection timer (which resets when you take cover), you have to babysit the damn thing 24/7. Not fun, tedious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I pretty much agree about the engineer. I think on defense, you get more bang for your buck as a demoman. you can set up a full pipe trap in just a few seconds and it's pretty much guaranteed to kill someone if you watch it like a hawk. only ways around it are emp grenades and someone taking another route (doesn't apply if you're piping the flag itself). Of course, defense is pretty boring no matter how you slice it =p
<!--quoteo(post=1650012:date=Sep 17 2007, 02:08 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Sep 17 2007, 02:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1650012"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I pretty much agree about the engineer. I think on defense, you get more bang for your buck as a demoman. you can set up a full pipe trap in just a few seconds and it's pretty much guaranteed to kill someone if you watch it like a hawk. <b>only ways around it are emp grenades</b> and someone taking another route (doesn't apply if you're piping the flag itself). Of course, defense is pretty boring no matter how you slice it =p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Apart from your Engy is too underpowered to help on the attack, even if just to clear some pipebombs, so the fact EMPs nullify pipes is moot.
Meh, engis are allright. I love playing them (but i also loved them in TF and TFC <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />). Only thing they are missing is the ability to detonate world-generated ammo-packs.
<!--quoteo(post=1650063:date=Sep 17 2007, 11:29 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Sep 17 2007, 11:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1650063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Apart from your Engy is too underpowered to help on the attack, even if just to clear some pipebombs, so the fact EMPs nullify pipes is moot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No class is too "underpowered" to help on offense. Grenades are the great equalizer.
they probably should have waited until AFTER tf2 came out to release FF, so that if TF2 made people nostalgic for TFC they could play FF... but now, going from FF to TF2, I don't think many people will go back =/
Comments
It takes at least double the time in FF.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see a lot of people getting huge scores as a spy, but I can't spy for nothin'... if I cloak, people see me. if I disguise, people tend to try shooting me anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just now, this one engineer was about to shoot at me but I threw a bag of ammo to him and he decided against it.
Then I threw him a grenade <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Spies have a time and a place, but if you find the enemy team is ready for spies you should do something else until they let their guard down. Defend your base from enemy spies by touching them, or play a different class.
Also keep in mind to never have your knife out unless you intend to use it. Not many people have caught on that the weapon seen in your hand is that corresponding with the slot of the class you are disguised as. For example, if I was disguised as a soldier and I had my knife out, other players would see me holding a crowbar.
If you have made it deep inside an enemy base, make it look like you are guarding something. Nobody questioned me when I was guarding the security switch on aardvark disguised as a soldier for instance, aiming towards the big ramp. Every now and then, flip the switch and cloak, then run back as a soldier looking alarmed and ready to help defend once again. Spy is more about helping the team out than getting the points. The best way to play the spy is to make sure the enemy team doesn't even know that your team has a spy.
If all else fails just wait a few weeks until people stop trying out new classes. I joined a server yesterday and my team had 4 spies. ;P
I was always under the impression that it is something like this:
Knife equals Slot1 (Melee weapons)
Tranq gun equals the other classes unique weapon (flamethrower, rocket launcher, assault cannon, super nailgun etc)
Supershotgun equals Supershotgun or shotgun.
Nailgun equals <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Him: "Hey, didn't you read the manual? The HWG is a defensive class"
Me: "But he's so overpowered I can play offy, so why not?"
Him: "..."
Seriously HWG is the shiznits. They should nerf his jump or something so he can't get up as much bhop speed and can't jump round corners <i>while firing</i>. In fact they should just stop him from jumping altogether while firing.
Him: "Hey, didn't you read the manual? The HWG is a defensive class"
Me: "But he's so overpowered I can play offy, so why not?"
Him: "..."
Seriously HWG is the shiznits. They should nerf his jump or something so he can't get up as much bhop speed and can't jump round corners <i>while firing</i>. In fact they should just stop him from jumping altogether while firing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same with me, this guy told me off and said to 'defend from inside the base'.
Needs less jumping and a very short spin up.
Use that to your advantage in some servers. In league gaming, a player shows he or she is not a spy by swinging the crowbar. If the player doesn't swing the crowbar, then the player is probably a spy, and is going to get shot. By having it out, some players may just assume the swinging occurred when the defender wasn't looking.
Anyway, if you like Spy, play on well (the map). You can cloak through the water unseen and then out the same way; did it thrice and was only ever contested in my home base by some returning soldier.
Also the tranq gun is amazing if you're sure enough of your aim that you can get a hit in; an enemy that can't move is a dead enemy.
Best moment: I sabotaged two SGs in the ramp room, deactivated security, stole the flag, then set off the SGs I sabotaged. Half the team that came out to try and stop me got killed.
Anyway, if you like Spy, play on well (the map). You can cloak through the water unseen and then out the same way; did it thrice and was only ever contested in my home base by some returning soldier.
Also the tranq gun is amazing if you're sure enough of your aim that you can get a hit in; an enemy that can't move is a dead enemy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not supposed to just run up behind some guy and hold down the "POWER OF FIRE" button; you circle strafe the guy. He'll have no chance. Like you said, an enemy that can't move is a dead enemy. You're an enemy, so if you don't move, you're dead.
I used to run in the front door all the time as a disguised spy in TFC. The trick was to run in backwards.
That be true, as long as you don't run backwards into a scout and lose your disguise without noticing, then run backwards into an enemy HWguy
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
can you make class-specific config files like in the old days? and is there a console command for the 'use last disguise' command for the spy? would be nice to have, like, mouse4 be my 'use last disguise' key for spy, and have it be 'detdispenser' for engy, etc.
In my defense, it was a rather narrow bridge, so if I'd circled around him the bulletspray would've pushed me off.
Soldiers IMBA, Spy ruined by 'cloak' and engineers have been nerfed. It doesn't feel like the Source engine either. Considering the graphics capabilities it's like playing a re-textured version of NEOTF TFC.
EDIT: Oh and the whole sniper power thing is a good idea, bit too long to get full power though, makes for pretty boring and under-powered snipers.
There are blank .cfg's for reach class under FF/cfg, so I'd say the answer is yes.
Currently I'm really hating spies. They just pour into the base(s) by dozens, and no one seems to notice even the painfully obvious ones. But what I truly dislike is that even if I notice that someone is hacking my sentry, I can't kill them fast enough before they drop two nades and take it down with them - seems to me like the wimpy ssg is the culprit here.
The sentries also seem to have a huge blind spot, making it very easy to shoot them from behind corners with no fear of retaliation. And with the somewhat lengthy detection timer (which resets when you take cover), you have to babysit the damn thing 24/7. Not fun, tedious.
Currently I'm really hating spies. They just pour into the base(s) by dozens, and no one seems to notice even the painfully obvious ones. But what I truly dislike is that even if I notice that someone is hacking my sentry, I can't kill them fast enough before they drop two nades and take it down with them - seems to me like the wimpy ssg is the culprit here.
The sentries also seem to have a huge blind spot, making it very easy to shoot them from behind corners with no fear of retaliation. And with the somewhat lengthy detection timer (which resets when you take cover), you have to babysit the damn thing 24/7. Not fun, tedious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I pretty much agree about the engineer. I think on defense, you get more bang for your buck as a demoman. you can set up a full pipe trap in just a few seconds and it's pretty much guaranteed to kill someone if you watch it like a hawk. only ways around it are emp grenades and someone taking another route (doesn't apply if you're piping the flag itself). Of course, defense is pretty boring no matter how you slice it =p
I love playing them (but i also loved them in TF and TFC <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />).
Only thing they are missing is the ability to detonate world-generated ammo-packs.
No class is too "underpowered" to help on offense. Grenades are the great equalizer.