If you knife someone as a spy and noone has seen you committing the deed you will automatically dress up in your victims uniform.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> yus, that is incredibly fun!
if you get good at it you can also use the backstab as a quick way of eliminating those pesky hwguys.
Cloak by an entrance to your base, wait for people to walk in, walk up behind em and insta kill <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
The Spy and the Pyro have both really been beefed up nicely.
I've been following Fortress Forever for some time now. As a long time Team Fortress Classic user, I was really excited to see it updated by someone other than Valve. That was until I saw that it was going to continue the gameplay elements that I feel helped kill the popularity of the original game. I wasn't as excited about Team Fortress 2, and I'm still worried about it: but, as much as it pains me, I imagine I'll probably like Valve's take better than this user-made modification. That is, if I ever buy the thing, heh. Having to pay for what I got for free in the past seems a bit strange to me.
I really hope Fortress Forever gets and remains popular for years. It would be great to see both games have players for a long time, because they can feed off each other's innovations and become better games from it.
it sounds like they did a lot of good things with the spy. how does hacking sentry guns work? they see through spy disguises so you can't exactly stand there hacking while getting unloaded on by the gun...
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1649516:date=Sep 14 2007, 12:49 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Sep 14 2007, 12:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649516"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it sounds like they did a lot of good things with the spy. how does hacking sentry guns work? they see through spy disguises so you can't exactly stand there hacking while getting unloaded on by the gun...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> no they don't <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
SGs do NOT see through disguise, however they see through cloak no matter if you are disguised or not.
so walk up to a SG (when disguised), aim at it, and a count down will popup. When that timer fills the SG is hacked.
Now you have 2 mins where the SG basically has bad aim. however, you can then Rclick (I think) to set all of your hacked SGs to now target their own team. That effect last 10 secs.
So yes, you can get in, hack all the SGs, and then switch em all at once!
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_Forever#Differences_from_Valve.27s_Team_Fortress_Classic" target="_blank">Differences between TFC and FF</a>, not sure if this is the whole thing though.
I find this is moderatly offset by their "sets people on fire" attribute. If they were as powerful as a soldier rocket, a Pyro could kill you from far away with a rocket or from up close with his flamer. He'd be perfect, really.
<!--quoteo(post=1649561:date=Sep 14 2007, 07:26 PM:name=Petco)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petco @ Sep 14 2007, 07:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649561"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_Forever#Differences_from_Valve.27s_Team_Fortress_Classic" target="_blank">Differences between TFC and FF</a>, not sure if this is the whole thing though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like how the differences are so minute that they actually have to write a wiki to prove that it's actually different.
edit: Oh and have fun playing the Pyro for now, because once people complain that he's more powerful than the Medic and Demo they're going to nerf him.
edit 2: also, if you didn't notice, the pyro can rocket jump with his launcher now
It is an entertaining diversion until TF2 gets here. It feels a lot like I'm playing the old TFC just prettier. I'll have to reserve judgment of which one I like better until after I've been able to play TF2 ^_^.
I've played a couple of maps for a couple of hours now, and my first impressions are that I prefer TFC. Sentry guns are now really weak, even at level 3, with any competant player being able to take them out with grenades. I even had a medic outrun the turret turning speed in circles while pummelling it with nailgun fire. So my favourite class from TFC has been totally nerfed (even the shotgun seems weaker).
It seems to take a lot longer to kill other players than in TFC, which imo slows down the game dynamic significantly. The only class I can kill quickly with is the HWG and because he can bhop ludicrously fast compared to TFC it makes him the uber class to play as. For me the cumbersome gait of the HWG offset beautifully his armour and damage advantages. In FF it's very easy to tap the minigun to keep it churning without it overheating.
Also -really annoying- even if you have fastswitch ON the weapon selection menu still comes up when you switch weapons, and it's not exactly small.
As for the maps, I played Well and I don't really like what they've done with it. It's a bit too claustrophobic now, but maybe it works well with the altered gameplay of FF. Monkey was the only one of the 3 I played that looked like a good Source map (visually speaking). Well was -ok- and the other one I played (with a big lake in the middle) just looked incredibly flat and monotone and didn't really take advantage of the capabilities in Source. I think the other maps are probably better so I'll check them out today.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1649652:date=Sep 15 2007, 01:56 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Sep 15 2007, 01:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649652"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've played a couple of maps for a couple of hours now, and my first impressions are that I prefer TFC. Sentry guns are now really weak, even at level 3, with any competant player being able to take them out with grenades. I even had a medic outrun the turret turning speed in circles while pummelling it with nailgun fire. So my favourite class from TFC has been totally nerfed (even the shotgun seems weaker).
It seems to take a lot longer to kill other players than in TFC, which imo slows down the game dynamic significantly. The only class I can kill quickly with is the HWG and because he can bhop ludicrously fast compared to TFC it makes him the uber class to play as. For me the cumbersome gait of the HWG offset beautifully his armour and damage advantages. In FF it's very easy to tap the minigun to keep it churning without it overheating.
Also -really annoying- even if you have fastswitch ON the weapon selection menu still comes up when you switch weapons, and it's not exactly small.
As for the maps, I played Well and I don't really like what they've done with it. It's a bit too claustrophobic now, but maybe it works well with the altered gameplay of FF. Monkey was the only one of the 3 I played that looked like a good Source map (visually speaking). Well was -ok- and the other one I played (with a big lake in the middle) just looked incredibly flat and monotone and didn't really take advantage of the capabilities in Source. I think the other maps are probably better so I'll check them out today.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I prefer FF, if only because it hasn't gotten old to me yet- TFC got there, sadly. But your assessment of the SG, the large shotgun(the small shotty is a ######ing sniper rifle now- I've sniped people across the map dozens of times now).
The HW Guy actually takes LESS skill now than before- not because he can bhop, but now that the shots start instantly, there is no strategy behind him, and the gun DOES NOT OVERHEAT if you just mash your mouse button.
Your fast switch thing seems like a bug on your end- it isn't happening to me.
Well seems fine now, as do most of the maps. I like the new spy changes(finally playable to me), and it just feels now like every class has its own, big, advantages(unlike before where I felt "I just can't play as a medic/spy/demoman", and now I do well with every class(though, Pyro is taking more time to get used to, but he was like that back in TFC for me too).
I guess my biggest issues thus far that weren't mentioned above, are:
Some maps make it impossible to play a spy. Only one way to go through the main area between bases, and they are big and open- completely impossible to deal with as a spy.
Conc jumping doesn't feel right. I used to conc around hunted like I had noclip mode on- now I couldn't get on top of the first building with a single conc to save my life.
Ramp jumping should NOT increase vertical speed. I mean, seriously, what the ###### is the point of it if its going to make you go UP faster?
The Scout's little radar ability thing needs to stay on screen longer- perhaps, even put it on like a 10 second cooldown but it keeps the boxes.
...outside of those(which really, other than the HW guy being overpowered/stupid and the Engineer needing more armor on his turrets), its a great release.
<!--quoteo(post=1649470:date=Sep 14 2007, 03:48 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Sep 14 2007, 03:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649470"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you play a medic and give another player AIDS (you can still give people AIDS, right?), can they still just suicide to deprive you of score, or will you get the points that you deserve, now?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Anyone?
<!--quoteo(post=1649661:date=Sep 15 2007, 01:27 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Sep 15 2007, 01:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649661"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Just tested this, it gives them a kill if you 'kill' yourself while infected.
I've played a few more maps now: I have to go back on what I said about Well. I still think the green water effect is fugly, but the changes they've made to the map are actually quite good. I also played Shutdown and Crossover, which are both very fun to play and look very nice in an arena sort of way. They really need to tone down the HWG though, unless he's concussed he's unbelievably lethal, especially with his full 4-2 grenades. I played a bit more with the Engy, the shotgun is nerfed but it's not unbelievably bad. The SG is still pretty weak unless you babysit it constantly, which for me is boring as hell.
Does it really matter if you get points or not? It's not like they help your team capture the flag or anything. My guess would be you get points just for infecting them, though, since the "Fortress Points" thing seems pretty benevolent.
<!--quoteo(post=1649672:date=Sep 15 2007, 04:51 PM:name=pardzh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pardzh @ Sep 15 2007, 04:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->WTF was wrong with the Demoman/Spy in regular TFC?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nothing was wrong with the demo.
The spy had the problem, that he was just not useful. You were only able to kill a lone enemy. General combat abilities were lacking (although you could try to get in a HWGUYs back when he was spinning). Gas nades did nothing. They were just not irritating enough. The only way to kill sentries was to throw nades at it, immediately blowing your cover. The time corpses stayed was just too low to make feigning useful, especially because the client could control it. When you disguised yourself your corpse also changed colour/class, meaning that the player who killed you before would kill you again.
In TF spies were useful because you could control weather it was cloak or feign (server variable and cloaked meant nothing can be seen except your eyes). In TFC they removed invisibility and kept feigning, resulting in a piss weak spy!
<!--quoteo(post=1649698:date=Sep 15 2007, 08:22 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Sep 15 2007, 08:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649698"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does it really matter if you get points or not? It's not like they help your team capture the flag or anything. My guess would be you get points just for infecting them, though, since the "Fortress Points" thing seems pretty benevolent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It doesn't REALLY matter, no. I used to have fun anyway because when I saw people suiciding I knew that it was me who had forced them to do it, which is just as much killing as is shoving a rocket up their let's-not-go-there. But it's still nice to get frags for killing people. It means that you don't find yourself wondering if people think you're useless because you're sitting at the bottom of the scoreboard even though you've been "killing" people left and right with AIDS all night long (all night, all night). Fortress points sounds good though. I might actually try this.
The snipers charge shot is kind of... I don't know... weak. You'll have to charge it all the way or to 50% and hit the head to get an instantkill. With enemies never standing still and moving quite fast it's hard to hit anything.
<!--quoteo(post=1649751:date=Sep 15 2007, 06:03 PM:name=Tyrain)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tyrain @ Sep 15 2007, 06:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649751"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The snipers charge shot is kind of... I don't know... weak. You'll have to charge it all the way or to 50% and hit the head to get an instantkill. With enemies never standing still and moving quite fast it's hard to hit anything.
Maybe I have to just get used to it, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pshaw. It's hitscan, right? Hitscan means you can hit anyone going any speed at all, as long as lag isn't so bad. It just takes mad skillz.
I see a lot of people getting huge scores as a spy, but I can't spy for nothin'... if I cloak, people see me. if I disguise, people tend to try shooting me anyway. and as far as circling around people with the knife goes, I'm not that great at it. it's kinda like skulking, which I was also not good at... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" />
I've been doing quite well with demoman and soldier though. who needs aim when you have large volumes of explosives?
It could easily be me remembering wrong but it seems like it takes so much longer to charge up a sniper shot in FF than it did in TFC. If I wasn't lazy I might load up TFC and test it out.
Comments
If you knife someone as a spy and noone has seen you committing the deed you will automatically dress up in your victims uniform.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yus, that is incredibly fun!
if you get good at it you can also use the backstab as a quick way of eliminating those pesky hwguys.
Cloak by an entrance to your base, wait for people to walk in, walk up behind em and insta kill <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
The Spy and the Pyro have both really been beefed up nicely.
I really hope Fortress Forever gets and remains popular for years. It would be great to see both games have players for a long time, because they can feed off each other's innovations and become better games from it.
no they don't <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
SGs do NOT see through disguise, however they see through cloak no matter if you are disguised or not.
so walk up to a SG (when disguised), aim at it, and a count down will popup. When that timer fills the SG is hacked.
Now you have 2 mins where the SG basically has bad aim. however, you can then Rclick (I think) to set all of your hacked SGs to now target their own team. That effect last 10 secs.
So yes, you can get in, hack all the SGs, and then switch em all at once!
on that note, how does cloak work? does it consume cells? is it just a set duration for each use but you can use it as much as you want?
I should just RTFM I guess =d
-Rockets arch
-Pyro can kill <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> (Its soo strange)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That's because his 3 different flame attacks (rocket/flamethrower/grenade) do multiplier damage!!!!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
orly? so rocket + flamethrower does more damage than flamethrower spam?
Huh?
I find this is moderatly offset by their "sets people on fire" attribute. If they were as powerful as a soldier rocket, a Pyro could kill you from far away with a rocket or from up close with his flamer. He'd be perfect, really.
I like how the differences are so minute that they actually have to write a wiki to prove that it's actually different.
edit: Oh and have fun playing the Pyro for now, because once people complain that he's more powerful than the Medic and Demo they're going to nerf him.
edit 2: also, if you didn't notice, the pyro can rocket jump with his launcher now
It seems to take a lot longer to kill other players than in TFC, which imo slows down the game dynamic significantly. The only class I can kill quickly with is the HWG and because he can bhop ludicrously fast compared to TFC it makes him the uber class to play as. For me the cumbersome gait of the HWG offset beautifully his armour and damage advantages. In FF it's very easy to tap the minigun to keep it churning without it overheating.
Also -really annoying- even if you have fastswitch ON the weapon selection menu still comes up when you switch weapons, and it's not exactly small.
As for the maps, I played Well and I don't really like what they've done with it. It's a bit too claustrophobic now, but maybe it works well with the altered gameplay of FF. Monkey was the only one of the 3 I played that looked like a good Source map (visually speaking). Well was -ok- and the other one I played (with a big lake in the middle) just looked incredibly flat and monotone and didn't really take advantage of the capabilities in Source. I think the other maps are probably better so I'll check them out today.
It seems to take a lot longer to kill other players than in TFC, which imo slows down the game dynamic significantly. The only class I can kill quickly with is the HWG and because he can bhop ludicrously fast compared to TFC it makes him the uber class to play as. For me the cumbersome gait of the HWG offset beautifully his armour and damage advantages. In FF it's very easy to tap the minigun to keep it churning without it overheating.
Also -really annoying- even if you have fastswitch ON the weapon selection menu still comes up when you switch weapons, and it's not exactly small.
As for the maps, I played Well and I don't really like what they've done with it. It's a bit too claustrophobic now, but maybe it works well with the altered gameplay of FF. Monkey was the only one of the 3 I played that looked like a good Source map (visually speaking). Well was -ok- and the other one I played (with a big lake in the middle) just looked incredibly flat and monotone and didn't really take advantage of the capabilities in Source. I think the other maps are probably better so I'll check them out today.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I prefer FF, if only because it hasn't gotten old to me yet- TFC got there, sadly. But your assessment of the SG, the large shotgun(the small shotty is a ######ing sniper rifle now- I've sniped people across the map dozens of times now).
The HW Guy actually takes LESS skill now than before- not because he can bhop, but now that the shots start instantly, there is no strategy behind him, and the gun DOES NOT OVERHEAT if you just mash your mouse button.
Your fast switch thing seems like a bug on your end- it isn't happening to me.
Well seems fine now, as do most of the maps. I like the new spy changes(finally playable to me), and it just feels now like every class has its own, big, advantages(unlike before where I felt "I just can't play as a medic/spy/demoman", and now I do well with every class(though, Pyro is taking more time to get used to, but he was like that back in TFC for me too).
I guess my biggest issues thus far that weren't mentioned above, are:
Some maps make it impossible to play a spy. Only one way to go through the main area between bases, and they are big and open- completely impossible to deal with as a spy.
Conc jumping doesn't feel right. I used to conc around hunted like I had noclip mode on- now I couldn't get on top of the first building with a single conc to save my life.
Ramp jumping should NOT increase vertical speed. I mean, seriously, what the ###### is the point of it if its going to make you go UP faster?
The Scout's little radar ability thing needs to stay on screen longer- perhaps, even put it on like a 10 second cooldown but it keeps the boxes.
...outside of those(which really, other than the HW guy being overpowered/stupid and the Engineer needing more armor on his turrets), its a great release.
Anyone?
I've played a few more maps now: I have to go back on what I said about Well. I still think the green water effect is fugly, but the changes they've made to the map are actually quite good. I also played Shutdown and Crossover, which are both very fun to play and look very nice in an arena sort of way. They really need to tone down the HWG though, unless he's concussed he's unbelievably lethal, especially with his full 4-2 grenades. I played a bit more with the Engy, the shotgun is nerfed but it's not unbelievably bad. The SG is still pretty weak unless you babysit it constantly, which for me is boring as hell.
Does it really matter if you get points or not? It's not like they help your team capture the flag or anything. My guess would be you get points just for infecting them, though, since the "Fortress Points" thing seems pretty benevolent.
Nothing was wrong with the demo.
The spy had the problem, that he was just not useful.
You were only able to kill a lone enemy.
General combat abilities were lacking (although you could try to get in a HWGUYs back when he was spinning).
Gas nades did nothing. They were just not irritating enough.
The only way to kill sentries was to throw nades at it, immediately blowing your cover.
The time corpses stayed was just too low to make feigning useful, especially because the client could control it.
When you disguised yourself your corpse also changed colour/class, meaning that the player who killed you before would kill you again.
In TF spies were useful because you could control weather it was cloak or feign (server variable and cloaked meant nothing can be seen except your eyes).
In TFC they removed invisibility and kept feigning, resulting in a piss weak spy!
It doesn't REALLY matter, no. I used to have fun anyway because when I saw people suiciding I knew that it was me who had forced them to do it, which is just as much killing as is shoving a rocket up their let's-not-go-there. But it's still nice to get frags for killing people. It means that you don't find yourself wondering if people think you're useless because you're sitting at the bottom of the scoreboard even though you've been "killing" people left and right with AIDS all night long (all night, all night). Fortress points sounds good though. I might actually try this.
Maybe I have to just get used to it, though.
Maybe I have to just get used to it, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pshaw. It's hitscan, right? Hitscan means you can hit anyone going any speed at all, as long as lag isn't so bad. It just takes mad skillz.
Worst thing though, if you don't kill your enemy in one hit, there is no feedback. You can't really tell if you hit.
I've been doing quite well with demoman and soldier though. who needs aim when you have large volumes of explosives?
Full charge, I 1 shot everything but HW Guys and Soldiers.
Half charge, a headshot kills everything but an HW Guy.
Sniper is the easiest-for-me-to-pwn-in class, period.