Mysteriously similar intention...

CowboxCowbox Members Join Date: 2007-09-03 Member: 62146Posts: 6 Fully active user
Similar intentions behind Unkown Worlds and Soharix
Hello forum users and forum staff (depending on who is reading this),

Before I begin I would like to start with a little bit about myself:

I am new to this forum, but not new to forums.
I am not nearly as old as anyone from Unknown Worlds - (I won't submit my age, but I will say I'm younger than 18)
I have been making games since I was 8 (no I'm not still 8, which would mean I've been making games for less than a year) and I did so for the next 4 years or so in the Games Factory (By Europress). This got me started on making games (obviously) and the concepts behind it, E.G. Media collection, Game design.

Then when I was err... possibley 12 or 13, I got the games creation program; Dark BASIC Professional.
I proceeded to play with this up until now and in that time I have gone from simple "Hello world"_type programs with nothing more than some text and maybe a picture entirely comprised of 2D drawing commands such as "circle" or "box", to full 3D adventure games (Latest release on that note being a (poorly named) game called Recre John (More on that note later.)

As well as this desire to make games I had the desire to have my own company. This turned into putting that into amature practice where everything I made, such as my old hobbie, small wooden toy/contraptions/objects, would have the current "company" logo or name imprinted on it. This quickly turned into putting them on all the Games Factory games I made then when I got to be able to make games that could potentially be sold, in Dark BASIC Professional (because you can't sell games made in the Games Factory) I started putting these logos and names all over my Dark BASIC Professional games too.

Around the same time as I was able to make more professional games I aquired from my dad the method (via Homestead Site builder) to make my own website, so I combined the 2 and made a website which intentionally and originally sold these games. For obvious reasons and the fact I was only about 13 years old at the time, not a lot of proffit was made. (Infact I think I only made 1 sale.) I quickly moved on and tried again with 3 more, each in progression, slightly better "companies" (I say companies because that's what I used to like to think they would become, but really they were nothing more than myself and the odd helper making some non-selling 2D games.) To finish the 3rd one, my computer decided to internally blow up, causing me to have to move my computing work downstairs onto my dads computer. But there was a problem - all the data used for my 3rd company (which incedently was called Sleekware (I say this in ease of reference)) was on my broken computer, upstairs. So I decided to start a new company, with new goals, new ambissions and a more mature, professional role and appearance, I called this Soharix.

The day I created Soharix, I programmed a kind of program which was only slightly similar to an EPOS system, in VBS in nothing more than notepad. This kept me busy for a while until I got back to my computer upstairs. The EPOS system was just something to make me feel like I wasn't wasting my time (I also tried to make a Spreadsheet program using the same methods, it didn't work too well.) As well as these few laim programs I made some VBS games, and a website (as usual) to go with it all. This was a very simple website, because I didn't want to seem (as we say in England) too big for my own boots.

Finally when I got back to my computer I decided to try making some games again for Soharix in Dark BASIC Professional. I seem to remember making 1 really bad but interesting game. But mainly my focus was on restoring a game I had made in my very first "company". This game was called John. Simply because it was about a guy called John. The thing which made me want to restore this game was because it was my only 3D game up to that point. I set to work at version 1.1 or something. This gradually turned through to versions 1.4 then 1.5, finally at 1.6 I decided to completely redo the game using a map maker I had made myself, making the whole thing a lot quicker and a lot easier. I also added some nice pretty graphics and eventually it got to John 1.7, where the game version rests at the moment. Soharix, with its staff of about 4, myself included. Then turned to a sequal for this already popular game (we had been advertising it by word of mouth at school, and a lot of people played it and really enjoyed it.) The sequal was set to work on pretty much the day after John 1.7 was released, this sequal was code named, Recre John, and would have been changed upon release. I got to level 4 of making this game and got demotivated and the project was dropped while I continued playing with other ideas, as I always have since I got Dark BASIC Professional (in so doing this I have about 2 gigabytes of failed and half finished projects.)

Later on that year, I decided to go back to Recre John because people were pestering me for its release because I had already garuanteed it before I gave up. So I then made the next 5 levels and released it. (Then fixed some bugs and released version 1.1, the version it currently stands at.)


So, now you know my life history -.-

I will get on with the post, I found Unknown Worlds through an Xfire advert regarding Game development and seeing its founder, Charlie Cleveland's, writeup. The more I looked around the site and studied it the more it seemed like just the kind of thing I'd always wanted; A study, money making, real company, with staff and a heavy comunity. I was almost amazed to realise that it could actually be achieved on the internet. I then set to work on this post with some main intentions, including asking, HOW??? - how was this all achieved? - its amazing and also, how can I get from having some free_to_download products, to actually selling them. Because my intention originally when I released Recre John was to sell it, but in the end it seemed like too much hassle and not that many people seemed interested, so I dropped it and made it a free game.

If anyone can elabourate on some insight into this amazing company here, please go ahead.

Cowbox
Soharix HQ
http://www.soharix.homestead.com/

Comments

  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi! Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Posts: 6,132
    Okay so in true cynical fashion, we didn't ask for your life story tounge.gif Still all jokes aside welcome, even though I am confused at your post, welcome, quite possibly someone I will remember because of their long totally random first post and introduction smile-fix.gif
  • CowboxCowbox Members Join Date: 2007-09-03 Member: 62146Posts: 6 Fully active user
    Well I do apreciate it was a bit long, but I felt it was necessary so that whoever was going to reply didn't think I was just some over-ambitious noob.

    The whole point was mainly to:
    A. Praise Unknown Worlds for doing something I've always wanted to do
    B. Ask how it was done and get some more information on it

    biggrin-fix.gif

    Cowbox
    Soharix HQ
    http://www.soharix.homestead.com/
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi! Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Posts: 6,132
    edited September 2007
    QUOTE(Cowbox @ Sep 3 2007, 08:06 PM) »
    Well I do apreciate it was a bit long, but I felt it was necessary so that whoever was going to reply didn't think I was just some over-ambitious noob.

    The whole point was mainly to:
    A. Praise Unknown Worlds for doing something I've always wanted to do
    B. Ask how it was done and get some more information on it

    biggrin-fix.gif

    Cowbox
    Soharix HQ
    http://www.soharix.homestead.com/


    If we look at this 'seriously' the long post is over-compensating for not wanting to look noob. Short, simple, to the point works best. Secondly Charlies personal site may have most of the information on it, the beginnings of his career and then how he came to set up NS etc. Although basically he quit his game industry job, made a mod with few people he knew and alot of community support, it flourished from hours of hard work, labour and a lack of doing much else but hard work and determination.

    PS: Homestead does not compute =] If you do alot of work on HL1/2 contact hlgaming.com and get a free site.
  • CowboxCowbox Members Join Date: 2007-09-03 Member: 62146Posts: 6 Fully active user
    I apreciate homestead isn't the most professional way of doing things, but it is all I can get at the moment, being that I don't actually have an income or any way to get any money usable on the internet to buy a site.

    I also don't work on anything to do with Half life or Half life 2 because I make my own games, I don't mod, because I don't know C++.

    Cowbox
    Soharix HQ
    http://www.soharix.homestead.com/
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    Chill guys.

    Welcome. smile-fix.gif
  • KungFuDiscoMonkeyKungFuDiscoMonkey Creator of ns_altair 日本福岡県Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14555Posts: 2,589 Advanced user
    edited September 2007
    Be nice to the newcomers.
    Cleaned up the thread.

    Also Charlie's site is here. http://www.charliecleveland.com/
    毎日勉強したら上手になるよ
  • DrfuzzyDrfuzzy FEW... MORE.... INCHES... Members Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21094Posts: 4,507
    Its hard to get on unknown worlds without knowing just about everything in the field that your wanting to join in, often the best bet is to join a promising mod team and help develop it, valve has been known to buy mods like counterstrike, team fortress classic, and many others. Plus with their steam distribution system, its easier to get a game dev team and sell your mod.
    image
  • CowboxCowbox Members Join Date: 2007-09-03 Member: 62146Posts: 6 Fully active user
    Thank you for your kind words (last 3 posts).

    In reply to the last post, I don't know how to mod the source engine, if I did I might half have a go I mean, it can't be that hard, its been done loads:
    TFC
    CS
    G-Mod
    Dystopia

    I just don't think I actually have the means to mod anything.

    Does anyone have an answer to how it can be done, either to the Half life engine or the source engine? (Because I have games from both engines on my computer.)

    Cowbox
    Soharix HQ
    http://www.soharix.homestead.com/
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi! Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Posts: 6,132
    Call me dense but how can what be done? You mod the half-life 1/2 engines? Get on a mod team? If these are the questions you are implying you download the Source SDK Base / Tools for Source and somewhere around on the net the HL1 mod-code swims about, might be available on steam I can't remember much of HL1 modding. To get on a mod, www.moddb.com or just know people and share the same desire.
  • KungFuDiscoMonkeyKungFuDiscoMonkey Creator of ns_altair 日本福岡県Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14555Posts: 2,589 Advanced user
    毎日勉強したら上手になるよ
  • GwahirGwahir Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Posts: 4,270
    Even before that, learn c++.

    Basic is not the language to use if you want to get into game creation.
    QUOTE
    Sanity is just a weird form of madness.
  • KungFuDiscoMonkeyKungFuDiscoMonkey Creator of ns_altair 日本福岡県Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14555Posts: 2,589 Advanced user
    He could try working with something like Python and Pygame. That might be an easier option for getting used to something that isn't basic but isn't as difficult as C/C++
    毎日勉強したら上手になるよ
  • CowboxCowbox Members Join Date: 2007-09-03 Member: 62146Posts: 6 Fully active user
    Hmm, well first, thank you again people for being so helpful.

    Second, I chose Dark BASIC Pro because it can do all the things anyone would want to achieve for making a game in C++, I mean I don't see any real advantage as of yet in learning C++.

    Third, there can't be many more mods made for the Source engine now? Just about everything has been tried, besides maybe some new genres, like RPG or RTS. Oh well, disclude this 3rd point, I could do that. smile-fix.gif

    Cowbox
    Soharix HQ
    http://www.soharix.homestead.com/
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Members Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Posts: 10,499
    QUOTE(Cowbox @ Sep 4 2007, 12:05 PM) »
    Third, there can't be many more mods made for the Source engine now? Just about everything has been tried, besides maybe some new genres, like RPG or RTS. Oh well, disclude this 3rd point, I could do that. smile-fix.gif


    If making a game in a genre immediately excluded anyone else from making a game in that genre then we could never have any more games ever again. Ever!

    TychoCelchuuu
    Evil Genius Secret Volcano HQ
    http://www.microsoft.com/en/us/default.aspx
    QUOTE (MOOtant @ Sep 21 2012, 11:06 AM) »
    What is wrong with being a racist?

  • TestamentTestament Members Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4037Posts: 2,924
    Uhh, Half-Life 1 isn't on the Source engine. Besides, an RPG has been done on Source. See: Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines.
  • CowboxCowbox Members Join Date: 2007-09-03 Member: 62146Posts: 6 Fully active user
    I know half life isn't on the source engine, it's on the GoldSrc (which incidently is short of GoldSource)

    But whatever, and I was refering to there being no amazingly popular mods in different genres on the Source engine. E.G. No one I know including myself, has heard of "Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines." Which implies it wasn't very sucessful.

    I was also using RPG and RTS as examples, I mean, there are no platform mods for the Source engine, no well known adventure mods either.

    All I was trying to say really was that if I had the means to do it, I would venture into making a mod for it in one of these genres.

    (I know I sounded like I was trying to flame you up there ^, but I wasn't lol, just needed to portray the right idea.)

    smile-fix.gif

    Cowbox
    Soharix HQ
    http://www.soharix.homestead.com/
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Members Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Posts: 10,499
    QUOTE(Cowbox @ Sep 4 2007, 03:47 PM) »
    But whatever, and I was refering to there being no amazingly popular mods in different genres on the Source engine. E.G. No one I know including myself, has heard of "Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines." Which implies it wasn't very sucessful.


    That is one possible implication.

    There have been a couple of adventure mods for Source, and at least a couple platforming mods too. The fact that you haven't heard of either these or V:TM-B reflects either on their popularity or your level of knowledge about the Source mod scene. Given that V:TM - B is an incredibly well loved game and has fans who continue to write patches for it to this day, and given the good amount of feedback I've seen given on the adventure mods and the buzz I've seen generated by the platforming mods, I think it's quite possible that you are generalizing you and your friends' lack of knowledge a little too much.
    QUOTE (MOOtant @ Sep 21 2012, 11:06 AM) »
    What is wrong with being a racist?

  • RellixRellix Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13572Posts: 2,285 Fully active user
    Dark Messiah was an RPG done on source too and if you havent heard of either of them, then you clearly dont keep track of current game releases.

    Bit harsh, but i still wish you luck in your future developments.
    My Blog
    QUOTE (Marik_Steele)
    my wife made me do my share of vacuuming the house, I'd do it with a puny little dirt devil
  • 0x000001940x00000194 Members Join Date: 2007-09-04 Member: 62167Posts: 36
    Any company or person can create a basic game. A 3d work, possibly some rendered models, that run around and do things.. etc. But the devil is in the details. The polish, the custom framework and functions, the combination of art and code to create an engine that has a "feel" to it.

    Just look at Q3 and UT. Back when they came out, they had almost identical features. The difference is in the "feel" of the engine. To me, Q3 feels more organic while UT feels more plastic. I'd argue the same for Half Life. The HL engine is amazingly natural feeling, not because of the graphic detail, but because of how the entire game forms a single unit. It's a hard thing to explain.

    What i'm trying to express here is the need for you, if you want to progress with this path, to learn a lower-level approach to design. Sure, high-level tools make quick prototypes, but to really give polish and feel you need to, at least to some degree, dig down a bit and make things unique.

    Having said that, it's important to note that programming language should be less of a factor than you make it. The important parts of design are far more theoretical. That's not to say that it's a huge advantage to be familiar with a specific language, but that it shouldn't be a stumbling block to switch to something else. My suggestion would be to learn either C++ or Java. Java is a bit more cutting edge, and the pure object-oriented design is a nice starting point for some people. I, on the other hand, would suggest leraning C++ first. I'd say it's important to know the destinction of object and function, to make objects more appretiated and more understood. Java has a way of masking constructors/destructors and garbage collection. C++ requires it all to be done manually.
  • GwahirGwahir Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Posts: 4,270
    edited September 2007
    While JAVA has its place, I don't really like it that much. It's "hand holding" is one of the main reasons for that. Basically, I feel a programmer should really be aware of what's going on behind the scenes and it's far too easy to get into a mode of programming that ends up creating and deleting a lot of objects every frame or similar in JAVA (deleting might be delayed but it has to get around to it sometime) while C++ forces you to be more aware of these performance robbing styles.

    That's not to say there aren't silent killers in c++, the deference between pre and post unary ++ for example.

    I also like c++'s customizability, yes it can be customized, and the ability to go outside the rules when you feel it's necessary.

    (lets not forget VM overhead)
    QUOTE
    Sanity is just a weird form of madness.
  • 0x000001940x00000194 Members Join Date: 2007-09-04 Member: 62167Posts: 36
    Very valid points. Java is all about easing portability and productivity. For performance and fine tuning C++ can't be beat.
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