Viacom breaks copyright-time continuum

DiscoZombieDiscoZombie Members Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Posts: 4,521 Advanced user
Viacom hits me with copyright infringement for posting on YouTube a video that Viacom made by infringing on my own copyright!"

tldr: this guy put a video on youtube. VH1 took it and put it on TV without asking him. He took the VH1 clip and put it on youtube. VH1 is telling him to cease and desist for stealing their work.

amusing. that is all.
image
«1

Comments

  • GwahirGwahir Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Posts: 4,272
    what makes it more amusing, is that, unless I'm mistaken, since he only used a small part of their program his use falls under fair use.
    QUOTE
    Sanity is just a weird form of madness.
  • TestamentTestament Members Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4037Posts: 2,927
  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Members Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Posts: 9,006 Advanced user
    I can't tell whether this is funny or tragic.
    Military cemeteries around the world are packed with brainwashed, dead soldiers who were convinced God was on their side.
    - George Carlin
  • pardzhpardzh Members Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1601Posts: 3,137
    Wow.

    Anyone else feeling like starting an angry mob and marching on the Viacom HQ?
    the artist formerly known as duff-man
  • GwahirGwahir Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Posts: 4,272
    what again?

    I'll go get my pitch fork...
    QUOTE
    Sanity is just a weird form of madness.
  • TestamentTestament Members Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4037Posts: 2,927
    QUOTE(lolfighter @ Aug 30 2007, 11:46 AM) »
    I can't tell whether this is funny or tragic.


    The latter is often the former.
  • DiscoZombieDiscoZombie Members Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Posts: 4,521 Advanced user
    edited August 2007
    after reading some comments and discussion, it sounds like Viacom might actually be at least half right, legally speaking :o

    when you post on youtube, you give youtube the right to license out your video for other people to use. You still hold the copyright apparently, but you pretty much are saying that youtube is allowed to give out permission to use your work. Presumably they gave permission to viacom, so they were probably allowed to air the video on VH1 without seeking this guy's permission.

    however, it's probably true that the guy had a right under fair use to post the video of the video back on youtube.
    image
  • LikuLiku I, am the Somberlain. Members Join Date: 2003-01-10 Member: 12128Posts: 10,081
    I've got the torches, let's burn 'em down!
    image
    QUOTE (Thansal @ Oct 14 2007, 12:14 PM) »
    I am with Them and Liku (who is fun to pwn with a baseball bat).
  • SkulkBaitSkulkBait Members Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13423Posts: 2,543
    edited August 2007
    QUOTE
    however, it's probably true that the guy had a right under fair use to post the video of the video back on youtube.

    YouTube doesn't give a rats ass about fair use and neither does Viacom. Thanks to that, Viacom will have its cake and eat it too. The best course of action I can think of is to try to make this harmful for Viacom, spread the word, boycott, post this thing on youtube every 5 minutes under a different account (like they did on digg with the HD-DVD processing key), and just generally tell them to ###### off.
    1.04ever
  • cshank4cshank4 Members Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13425Posts: 1,668
    People actually watch VH1?
    IPB Image
  • ConfusedConfused Wait. What?Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12904Posts: 2,117 Advanced user
    QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Aug 30 2007, 03:11 PM) »
    after reading some comments and discussion, it sounds like Viacom might actually be at least half right, legally speaking :o

    when you post on youtube, you give youtube the right to license out your video for other people to use. You still hold the copyright apparently, but you pretty much are saying that youtube is allowed to give out permission to use your work. Presumably they gave permission to viacom, so they were probably allowed to air the video on VH1 without seeking this guy's permission.

    however, it's probably true that the guy had a right under fair use to post the video of the video back on youtube.


    to quote the relevant portion of the TOS (http://www.youtube.com/t/terms) He DOES retain all his rights to the content.
    ===

    C. For clarity, you retain all of your ownership rights in your User Submissions. However, by submitting User Submissions to YouTube, you hereby grant YouTube a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the User Submissions in connection with the YouTube Website and YouTube's (and its successors' and affiliates') business, including without limitation for promoting and redistributing part or all of the YouTube Website (and derivative works thereof) in any media formats and through any media channels. You also hereby grant each user of the YouTube Website a non-exclusive license to access your User Submissions through the Website, and to use, reproduce, distribute, display and perform such User Submissions as permitted through the functionality of the Website and under these Terms of Service. The above licenses granted by you in User Videos terminate within a commercially reasonable time after you remove or delete your User Videos from the YouTube Service. You understand and agree, however, that YouTube may retain, but not display, distribute, or perform, server copies of User Submissions that have been removed or deleted. The above licenses granted by you in User Comments are perpetual and irrevocable.
    ===

    Further more viacom is in violation of the TOS


    ===
    C. You agree not to access User Submissions (defined below) or YouTube Content through any technology or means other than the video playback pages of the Website itself, the YouTube Embeddable Player, or other explicitly authorized means YouTube may designate.


    B. You may access User Submissions solely:

    * for your information and personal use;
    * as intended through the normal functionality of the YouTube Service; and
    * for Streaming.

    "Streaming" means a contemporaneous digital transmission of an audiovisual work via the Internet from the YouTube Service to a user's device in such a manner that the data is intended for real-time viewing and not intended to be copied, stored, permanently downloaded, or redistributed by the user. Accessing User Videos for any purpose or in any manner other than Streaming is expressly prohibited. User Videos are made available "as is."

    =====
  • DiscoZombieDiscoZombie Members Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Posts: 4,521 Advanced user
    this part:
    QUOTE
    you hereby grant YouTube a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the User Submissions in connection with the YouTube Website and YouTube's (and its successors' and affiliates') business, including without limitation for promoting and redistributing part or all of the YouTube Website (and derivative works thereof) in any media formats and through any media channels
    as I understand it means that youtube can let whoever they want showcase your videos without your permission. They can let VH1 play one of your videos because it's promoting the YouTube website.

    I think Viacom is only in violation of the TOS if they didn't get permission from YouTube first.

    but I'm no lawyer.
    image
  • GwahirGwahir Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Posts: 4,272
    I agree with Disco


    ... not the genre.
    QUOTE
    Sanity is just a weird form of madness.
  • Cereal_KillRCereal_KillR Members Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1837Posts: 4,943 Advanced user
    It's a shame that we have to reason what's right legally, and not what's logically right.
    -signed-
  • ConfusedConfused Wait. What?Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12904Posts: 2,117 Advanced user
    I would actually argue that basically as the user retains his ownership of copyright. Youtube's TOS mentions the promotion of the site as the only reason for sublicensing. Obviously, I haven't bothered to watch the clip. So i cant mention if it counts as youtube marketing.

    Unless I'm am misreading that portion.

    Not sure as to the actual legality. But I would be willing to bet the guy has a reasonable court case here as well.
  • GwahirGwahir Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Posts: 4,272
    edited August 2007
    QUOTE(Cereal_KillR @ Aug 30 2007, 05:15 PM) »
    It's a shame that we have to reason what's right legally, and not what's logically right.


    logically right?
    What do you mean by that?
    how does logic, in and of itself, dictate what is right here?

    You obviously aren't using a legal point of reference for your logic, but I can't see what you are using.
    QUOTE
    Sanity is just a weird form of madness.
  • Cereal_KillRCereal_KillR Members Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1837Posts: 4,943 Advanced user
    I would say that logically, a guy shouldn't be forbidden to use his own material. I know that's poor argumentation, but I just don't see why we have to go through legal texts to determine whether or not a guy making a video of himself posing with a lightsaber should be sued by a company just because it decided to show "hey, look! I'm on TV!" on YouTube.
    -signed-
  • HazeHaze O RLY? Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-07-07 Member: 18018Posts: 4,859
    QUOTE
    how does logic, in and of itself, dictate what is right here?


    Because someone taking your stuff, then you putting up a video showing someone using your stuff, shouldn't be wrong. "It's okay, we took yours, but you can't take ours." Thats logic imo.
  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Posts: 7,221 Advanced user
    Wow. I hope this makes it around to Youtube HQ.
    image
    __________Artist: asuka111 | The Flood | www.quaunaut.com
  • HazeHaze O RLY? Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-07-07 Member: 18018Posts: 4,859
    I hope it makes it so like, badass supreme court on some legal contradiction. That'd be cool. Even though it won't.
  • Private_ColemanPrivate_Coleman PhD in Video Games Members Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7510Posts: 2,415
    QUOTE(pardzh @ Aug 30 2007, 01:55 PM) »
    Wow.

    Anyone else feeling like starting an angry mob and marching on the Viacom HQ?



    There are worse companies out there than Viacom.
    --->
    I N T E R N E T
    R A D I O
    Talk
    Industrial
    Punk
    RantRadio - 10 years of non-profit, ad-free radio.
    Don't hate the Media. Become the media.

  • XythXyth Avatar Members Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22312Posts: 2,625
    Viacom is actually in the right here. Yes they stole his stuff, but if he had a problem with that he should contact them directly (Which would have resulted in him probably being able to put ithe video up). It's not like Viacom realized what was going on when they reported it to youtube, hell, they probably report hundreds of videos a day.

    Also, Viacom sounds like the name of a company that creates some kind of deadly virus. Aka: it's a pretty cool name.

    Infact, putting something on youtube makes it public property does it not? By putting it on youtube he forfeited all rights to the video.
    The first thing you must learn is to learn from your mistakes.
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Members Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Posts: 3,925
    QUOTE(Xyth @ Aug 30 2007, 05:27 PM) »
    Infact, putting something on youtube makes it public property does it not? By putting it on youtube he forfeited all rights to the video.

    Did you read the thread at all? The relevant part of the youtube ToS is posted, and it certainly doesn't say that.
    image
    QUOTE(CMEast @ Jun 4 2005, 10:54 AM)
    ... accusations are so... accusing.
  • pardzhpardzh Members Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1601Posts: 3,137
    QUOTE(Private_Coleman @ Aug 30 2007, 08:03 PM) »
    There are worse companies out there than Viacom.

    Really? Gee, didn't even think of that.

    Guess they're off the hook.
    the artist formerly known as duff-man
  • XythXyth Avatar Members Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22312Posts: 2,625
    edited August 2007
    QUOTE(im_lost @ Aug 30 2007, 08:36 PM) »
    Did you read the thread at all? The relevant part of the youtube ToS is posted, and it certainly doesn't say that.


    I formulate all my responses by parsing every 5th word in the first post and any links there-in, then I use an algorithm to insert relevant parsed words in one of 20 response templates. It is a miracle that so many of my posts make any sense at all.

    No, I didn't read the Youtube TOS. However, now that I HAVE:

    I would assume that this show has probably worked out a deal with Youtube considering a majority of their content is Youtube based (Yes, I've seen it a few times. No, I'm not proud), so based upon that they can use the work legally.

    Besides, does the fact that they used his work really entitle him to THEIR work? I would think not.

    Finally: It's not like they are fricking sueing him, calm down people.
    The first thing you must learn is to learn from your mistakes.
  • Private_ColemanPrivate_Coleman PhD in Video Games Members Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7510Posts: 2,415
    edited August 2007
    QUOTE(pardzh @ Aug 30 2007, 07:46 PM) »
    Really? Gee, didn't even think of that.

    Guess they're off the hook.



    I meant it in a "prioritise which corporate headquarters to plant explosive charges in" sort of way. sad-fix.gif

    We can blow viacom up later, we should be more concerned with the ones that are you know, killing people and stuff.
    --->
    I N T E R N E T
    R A D I O
    Talk
    Industrial
    Punk
    RantRadio - 10 years of non-profit, ad-free radio.
    Don't hate the Media. Become the media.

  • GwahirGwahir Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Posts: 4,272
    I really should have made myself plainer about the "logical" bit.

    That's not logic. Replace "logical" with "moral" and then I'll agree with you.
    QUOTE
    Sanity is just a weird form of madness.
  • HazeHaze O RLY? Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-07-07 Member: 18018Posts: 4,859
    Well hows that not logic? You use my stuff I'll use yours?
  • GwahirGwahir Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Posts: 4,272
    what is the logical basis behind your reasoning?

    You're saying that person A cannot deny person B from using something originally created by person B and modified by person A. That's fine, I agree that is a good policy, however, no one has put down a logical analysis that makes this a tautology.
    QUOTE
    Sanity is just a weird form of madness.
  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Members Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Posts: 9,006 Advanced user
    edited August 2007
    I'm not going to read the TOS right now, but I bet that Youtube has a "we can basically do whatever we want on our own site"-clause. Youtube - while publically accessible - isn't a public space, and so the house makes the rules. This means that they can pull down any video they want for whatever reason they fancy or for no reason at all (and I bet there are words to more or less this tune in the TOS too), and there's not a thing you can do about it. Except public pressure, that is.
    Military cemeteries around the world are packed with brainwashed, dead soldiers who were convinced God was on their side.
    - George Carlin
Sign In or Register to comment.