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matso
Master of Patches
9:25PM
Do the "Performance-Jam"!!!
SteveRock wrote: » CrazyEddie wrote: » Steve, Cory - as long as you're answering performance and technology questions: Are you doing any work around splitting up the game logic code so that it could be handled in multiple lua threads? I know that's not easy (and I know that's an understatement) but it seems like the payoff could be huge. We do this for prediction already, which resulted in huge gains, but that's literally running two separate Lua worlds. Doing it within the same world is more complex, and much more risky (in terms of bugs, code maintainability, whether or not it would even work, etc. etc.). So, it's less likely we'll pursue this avenue. The extra Lua VM running the Predict world is very much a special case; it it responsible for taking the server network updates and merge it with any missing client moves, then deliver that to the main thread. It reduced an O(fps^2) problem in the main thread to an O(network rate) in a secondary thread - a very good thing. Also increased fps so much that Max had to add move rate limiters to avoid servers imploding under the load ... oh, fun times, good times (http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/122189/224-tech-changes-part-1 for those interested in more details ) Lua does not support true multithreading (yet), so if you want to split the logic work you would probably go for using multiple Lua VMs running in their own threads, and then have a merge phase in between... doable, but adding lots of complexity. So going for LuaJIT first is the right way ... hopefully, it will be fast enough to tide Spark over until Lua supports true multithreading.
SteveRock
8:02PM
Do the "Performance-Jam"!!!
CrazyEddie wrote: » Steve, Cory - as long as you're answering performance and technology questions: Are you doing any work around splitting up the game logic code so that it could be handled in multiple lua threads? I know that's not easy (and I know that's an understatement) but it seems like the payoff could be huge. We do this for prediction already, which resulted in huge gains, but that's literally running two separate Lua worlds. Doing it within the same world is more complex, and much more risky (in terms of bugs, code maintainability, whether or not it would even work, etc. etc.). So, it's less likely we'll pursue this avenue.
matso
Master of Patches
7:29PM
Do the "Performance-Jam"!!!
CrazyEddie wrote: » Steve, Cory - as long as you're answering performance and technology questions: Are you doing any work around splitting up the game logic code so that it could be handled in multiple lua threads? I know that's not easy (and I know that's an understatement) but it seems like the payoff could be huge. Right now the client uses slightly more than 2 cores at peak load, so further MT would not benefit 2-core machines much. Better to go for LuaJIT, which uses the CPU more efficiently.
MurphyIdiot
NS2 programmer
6:35PM
time to make the mods - problem
Your problem is in the game_setup.xml file. If you open the console with ~ in game, you will see this being spammed: Error: Error reading end tag. Error: Couldn't load 'game_setup.xml' It failed to parse the file due to this line having a typo: <predeict>lua/ModPredict.lua</predict> The console and log file are your friend
SteveRock
6:23PM
Do the "Performance-Jam"!!!
moultano wrote: » SteveRock wrote: » And since you seem to be fairly technically minded, the major challenge we face with LuaJIT is the Lua->C++ API. For LuaJIT to be performant, you have to architect that API in some pretty specific ways, otherwise you will always break the JIT compiles and get almost no benefit from it. Completely changing the API is not an attractive option (rewrite a lot of code..break all the mods..), so we're currently investigating ways of avoiding this. Tell us more! Reading about things like this gives me a "break out the profiler" itch. It's exciting. Is there a performance sensitive subset you could rewrite, and assume the remainder will fall back to being interpreted? One challenge is even identifying the hotspots, so Dushan has been working on a sample-based Lua profiler to help with this. Think of it as Intel VTune for Lua scripts (cuz otherwise, VTune just tells us...Lua is slow). Once that is done, we can better assess if it's possible to address just that subset.
Squeal_Like_A_Pig
Janitor
5:46PM
UWE to replace Vanilla NS2 with Sewlek's balance mod in the near future
thelawenforcer wrote: » ironhorse - im saying that characterizing all criticism or questioning of the mod in general as no more than "omg this mod suxxxxX!!1!!!" is a serious misrepresentation of what people were actually saying and that by doing so, it enables him to ignore said criticism or questions. i find that intellectually dishonest and would expect better from a serious games developer. Nowhere did I state this. Not...at...all. There is plenty of valid criticisms of the mod being carried out in thoughtful discussions in the main BT mod thread, in game, and by the official balance mod testing team, and I was not referring to those arguments, merely requesting people who want to give further feedback to frame it in a manner that is respectful and constructive. And, I see that there were several posts made after my comment that did exactly what I requested, giving their opinions in a non inflammatory way, and listing out the reasons why they disagree with certain features in the mod. However, I would like to request that people leave their feedback in the other current BT thread, so that we have it all in one place, and it doesn't get lost in this thread.
Squeal_Like_A_Pig
Janitor
5:24PM
Do the "Performance-Jam"!!!
ezekel wrote: » But what about the openGL/DX11 things, what exactly does this do? (besides openGL possibly making it playable or mac or linux or something?) and dx11? No complaints as I'm running a card with dx11 though The primary reason this is being done right now is to be able to port the game over to other platforms, like MAC and Linux. However, we are also hoping there will be some additional performance boost on the GPU side as well, though exactly how much is unknown at the moment. Between this and the LuaJITstuff that is being worked on, which will help out on the CPU side, there should be noticeable performance improvements coming.
matso
Master of Patches
9:45AM
Location Relevancy; get around max-relevancy distance by location based relevancy
UWE has a bit too much on their platter right now to commit to supporting it, so they prefer it to be a mod. It may be included in mainline if it shows itself to be stable and popular.
Squeal_Like_A_Pig
Janitor
5:38AM
UWE to replace Vanilla NS2 with Sewlek's balance mod in the near future
thelawenforcer wrote: » how do you intend to quantify this outcry? will it be before or after? will it be based purely on these forums, or will you run a poll ingame to try and reach the maximum amount of players? I ask because you cannot possibly measure the outcry or lack of until you inform the entire player base of said changes. Seeing as even now we only have a 'confirmed denial' i wouldnt say that these plans have been effectively communicated to the community. to assume there is little or no outcry on these pretences seems to be a bit premature. We have plans to promote the mod through the official channels, soon. Sewlek has been working towards finalizing the features, and then we can put it into the final phase of testing and get the word out to more people through blog posts, twitter feed, in game news, etc, to let them know that this could be the future of NS2 and to start playing and giving feedback if they want to have a say. Feedback can be given on the forums - Sewlek has been reading every single post in those threads. It can be given in game - Sewlek is constantly playing on BT mod servers and watching and listening to player experiences. There is an upcoming BT tournament that teams are participating in, and we will be watching those and listening to the players opinions. There are and will be plenty of arguments for and against various features in the mod, and of course we won't please everyone with the changes. But we will listen, and, based on all the feedback we receive from all areas of the community, as well as our own judgement about what we feel is best for the future of NS2, we will make the final decisions about which elements to carry over from the mod into the game. But people need to remember that how you present your opinions is as important as what they are. "OMG this mod sux and is going to kill NS2" is the kind of presentation of an opinion that does little to contribute to the ongoing discussion, and will likely result in those opinions being ignored. "I don't like ___ feature , because of ____ and ____ " is the sort of feedback we are looking for and that will matter.
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