Natural Selection 2 News Update - Build 202 released

MaxMax Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment Join Date: 2002-03-15 Member: 318Posts: 1,650Super Administrators, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, Subnautica Developer admin
Please post comments on the topic Natural Selection 2 News Update - Build 202 released here
Max McGuire
Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment
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Comments

  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Posts: 1,369Members
    "One side effect of the new material system is that the first time a shader is needed by the game it will pause the game for a few seconds. This will only happen one time, because the shader is then cached on disk for future use. We'll be pre-caching these shaders in future builds, but hopefully it won't cause too much of a nuisance until we get that done."

    You're going to hear a lot of complaints about this one! I won't say anything for fear of thousands of fanboys, but uhhhhh...
  • slimeslime Join Date: 2010-07-14 Member: 72352Posts: 51Members
    I'm not sure that's really something to complain about - it only happens once total (not once per game startup, once ever), and as the changelog said, they plan to pre-load the shaders for first-time use before they're needed.
  • LV426-ColonistLV426-Colonist Space Jockey Join Date: 2011-08-05 Member: 114269Posts: 678Members, Constellation
    edited March 2012
    So no changes to the early onos rush (besides dmg reduction)?

    Edit: I'm not sure if that was the proper solution.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    LV426-Colonist
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Posts: 1,369Members
    edited March 2012
    QUOTE (slime @ Mar 30 2012, 08:14 PM) »
    I'm not sure that's really something to complain about - it only happens once total (not once per game startup, once ever), and as the changelog said, they plan to pre-load the shaders for first-time use before they're needed.


    Are you sure about that? It says "the first time a shader is needed..."
    Complaints about that aside, I lost half my framerate this build, without changing my system. I don't want to spend time thinking about that but I'll just say it puts me off playing.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Posts: 2,186Members
    edited March 2012
    I was kind of hoping to see a bigger nerf to onos rushes, as far as I can tell a double onos will be just as potent, since it's the marine's incapability to counter it that is the biggest problem, not how fast they can take down buildings and power nodes. Rest looks good, I think my performance increased slightly but it's still dropping pretty heavily in big fights, especially when theres a lot of buildings present.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Steamname: Unkn0wn
  • criogenicscriogenics Join Date: 2003-01-13 Member: 12248Posts: 218Members, Constellation
    Game looks great but there's a VERY noticeable input lag that makes it almost impossible to aim, especially shotgun vs skulk.
    #cri.ogenics
  • countbasiecountbasie Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Posts: 819Members
    edited March 2012
    Lol!





    http://youtu.be/BqnFnWSYzaQ?t=35s
    Know what I mean? :D


    Cool new effects btw.


    EDIT: No offense, of course ;)
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • RyneRyne Join Date: 2012-02-25 Member: 147408Posts: 443Members, NS2 Map Tester
    A bit confused about Onos now...

    QUOTE
    • Gore will not do puncture damage anymore, which means it does now equal damage to both structures and players
    • Reduce smash damage to 100 (down from 300)
    • Reduced gore stun time to 1 second (down from 2)
    • Smash will now also harm players, but without the structural damage and without knockdown
    • Increased stomp stun duration from 1.5 seconds to 2 seconds


    So gore now does more damage to buildings, and smash does less to buildings and more to marines.

    So smash is the anti-player and gore the anti-building? A few onos on my team were saying gore was doing more damage to arcs than smash was.

    Ryne aka R-W-Ryne (twitch)

    Trying to stream NS2 often: everything from scrims, to gathers, to pub play!
    Ryne's Twitch Page | Ryne's Casts (Steam Group) | Blind's Twitch Page
  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Posts: 1,456Members, NS2 Map Tester
    Why didn't you fix the onos problem? Reduce his HP, tie it to hives if need be. It's broken and destroying any "competitive" games we can possibly play. Competitive games are a 98% alien winrate because the onos is completely broken. You guys didn't even address the problem and that's pretty disappointing.
    image
  • botchiballbotchiball Join Date: 2003-04-24 Member: 15810Posts: 560Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (criogenics @ Mar 30 2012, 07:27 PM) »
    Game looks great but there's a VERY noticeable input lag that makes it almost impossible to aim, especially shotgun vs skulk.


    2nd on that one, unloaded a clip and a half at one skulk and couldn't kill him. Though I was thinking it was an adjustment to either skulk's carapace protection or marine damage.

    Has anyone else had a massive computer crash with this build (i.e. computer reset)? Could have been a fluke, I'll keep playing for now.
  • kababkabab Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24384Posts: 560Members, Constellation
    Marine UI needs to be 50% smaller...
  • ÒŗăNģёÒŗăNģё Join Date: 2012-02-09 Member: 144437Posts: 133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Gore can out DPS smash, why? What is the purpose of smash now? Smash was fine before, took lots of energy and only hurt buildings. A flamer could stop the onos from proceeding his smash rampage while others could kill it simply as it burned and tried to regain its energy.
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Posts: 1,369Members
    QUOTE (ÒŗăNģё @ Mar 30 2012, 09:01 PM) »
    Gore can out DPS smash, why? What is the purpose of smash now? Smash was fine before, took lots of energy and only hurt buildings. A flamer could stop the onos from proceeding his smash rampage while others could kill it simply as it burned and tried to regain its energy.


    Yep this is true.
  • JuCCiJuCCi Join Date: 2011-08-08 Member: 114961Posts: 524Members, NS2 Map Tester
    QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 30 2012, 09:44 PM) »
    Why didn't you fix the onos problem? Reduce his HP, tie it to hives if need be. It's broken and destroying any "competitive" games we can possibly play. Competitive games are a 98% alien winrate because the onos is completely broken. You guys didn't even address the problem and that's pretty disappointing.




    ^What he said. :S I was really thinking there was going to be a fix. This patch was nothing big......
  • RyneRyne Join Date: 2012-02-25 Member: 147408Posts: 443Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited March 2012
    Oh and the new font...isn't very good looking. Everyone in the game I was playing hated the chat font.

    Specifically the spacing is horrible.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Ryne aka R-W-Ryne (twitch)

    Trying to stream NS2 often: everything from scrims, to gathers, to pub play!
    Ryne's Twitch Page | Ryne's Casts (Steam Group) | Blind's Twitch Page
  • MaxMax Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment Join Date: 2002-03-15 Member: 318Posts: 1,650Super Administrators, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, Subnautica Developer admin
    QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 30 2012, 05:22 PM) »
    Are you sure about that? It says "the first time a shader is needed..."
    Complaints about that aside, I lost half my framerate this build, without changing my system. I don't want to spend time thinking about that but I'll just say it puts me off playing.

    Yes it is only once. It will never happen again unless we make updates to that material. We haven't noticed any frame rate differences in our testing, but we'll be monitoring our collected performance statistics to see if there is a problem.
    Max McGuire
    Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment
  • LV426-ColonistLV426-Colonist Space Jockey Join Date: 2011-08-05 Member: 114269Posts: 678Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (Ryne @ Mar 30 2012, 08:08 PM) »
    Oh and the new font...isn't very good looking. Everyone in the game I was playing hated the chat font.


    It's actually easier to read.
    LV426-Colonist
  • wazups2xwazups2x Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72902Posts: 47Members
    QUOTE (criogenics @ Mar 30 2012, 05:27 PM) »
    Game looks great but there's a VERY noticeable input lag that makes it almost impossible to aim, especially shotgun vs skulk.


    This! The input lag is very annoying. It's one of my biggest complaints.
    All signature images must be at most 75 pixels high, at most 400 pixels wide, and less than 40 KB. No exceptions. - Angelusz (http://cards.steamprices.com/eE5TRDUwMVVUMHM9.png)
  • SmaugSmaug Join Date: 2011-05-23 Member: 100283Posts: 138Members
    Onos is sadly still a problem, but I'm sure plenty will mention that.

    I actually don't like the nano-shield from a 3rd person perspective, especially as a commander, I find it really hard to see if I've successfully nano-shielded the marine or (especially) the structure. Nano-shield from 1st person looks amazing though!
  • CodeineCodeine Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Posts: 515Members
    edited March 2012
    i played this patch for about 5 mins before raging.

    - Input lag
    - game pauses for 1-2 secs every 30 seconds almost
    - Flash light is STILL next to useless. Im certain 100 years into the future from now flash lights wont only go 5 feet.
    - I couldn't see my messages i type into chat, but this could be from a mod.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • PerestroikaPerestroika Join Date: 2011-07-24 Member: 111955Posts: 86Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited March 2012
    update your menumod codeine, should fix chat not showing up

    also I got fps loss :(
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,426Members
    edited March 2012
    - Weird white glow on infestation happening everywhere in every round, all servers. Geforce 560 ti.

    image

    - I alt tabbed during a load screen and the game crashed.

    - rag dolls are finally good! what a difference!

    - still seeing cysts dark when they are connected and not losing health

    - many people saying in game they're getting higher fps

    - some collision problems: I was walking along as marine when im suddenly thrown way up high out of the map before reappearing where i was on the ground. That hasn't happened for many many builds.

    - nice touch with nano shield and building effects.

    - new HUD elements are sleek. The gorge one is good, still think showing the 3 build options in the middle of the screen isn't the most elegant way to have it.

    - games are very predictable as no matter what happens during course of match, eventually more and more onoses show up and aliens win.

    - sentries are deadly. If that's how it is to be, please add some tracer effect to their bullets so people can see where they're firing. I always felt like the sentries dont fire bullets they just look at aliens and do damage.

    - at times I'm certain I hit a skulk with a shotgun but no damage was done. Once I even saw the hit effect but no blood came out. Another time I fired twice at close range and the skulk didnt die, maybe didnt even get hurt?

    - the chat font and kill feed are too large and spaced out. I'm indifferent to the font.

    - dont understand the different onos attacks. Gore now does good damage to structures. No idea what puncture damage is. Can't it go back to being 1 anti player attack which is less draining, and 1 anti structure attack which drains more energy?
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Posts: 1,456Members, NS2 Map Tester
    QUOTE (Perestroika @ Mar 30 2012, 09:25 PM) »
    update your menumod codeine, should fix chat not showing up

    also I got fps loss :(



    Doesn't fix it. That last update was for b201. b202 broke it again. If you try to chat with the menumod, it will simply lock up your controls. You won't be able to move/shoot until you disconnect and reconnect.


    P.S. Why wasn't the Onos fixed? It's so obviously broken and he actually got his (already broken) crowd control buffed.
    image
  • RulgrokRulgrok Join Date: 2007-04-04 Member: 60559Posts: 196Members
    QUOTE (Codeine @ Mar 30 2012, 08:18 PM) »
    - Flash light is STILL next to useless. Im certain 100 years into the future from now flash lights wont only go 5 feet.



    Oh yes please - but until power nodes become useful I dont see this as an issue.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/rulgrok/
    insufficient funds
    #156.ifunds

    No sympathy for griefers or the friends of.
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,426Members
    edited March 2012
    The weird thing is, if you're behind a marine with flashlight on, it actually makes it harder for you to see things that he's looking at. Unless you turn off atmospherics but I like that on.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • IronHorseIronHorse CDT Technical Support & QA Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 6,291Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Community Dev Team admin
    edited March 2012
    QUOTE (peregrinus @ Mar 30 2012, 05:39 PM) »
    - Weird white glow on infestation happening everywhere in every round, all servers. Geforce 560 ti.


    very well known bug that occurred with new material system.
    they are on it. just didnt make it into this build.

    and yes, i concur, the spacing on the font is too much.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • SannomSannom Join Date: 2012-03-16 Member: 148862Posts: 20Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Correct me if I'm wrong ( And I might very well be ), but I don't recall Onos stomp putting people to the ground ( Alt fire )... I could throw any group of marine to the ground WAY too easily this way, and I'm pretty certain they felt helpless on the ground while I typed, staring at them; " Oh my, Stomp is very OP. I'll go back to my hive now. ", as I walked away, feeling that killing them would be too cheap.

    Then we went on to speak about how the spacing in the new font was oddly big! Is this on purpose?
  • OnosFactoryOnosFactory New Zealand Join Date: 2008-07-16 Member: 64637Posts: 895Members
    I agree with the sentries needing more feedback from alien perspective, I'd happily give up fancy red laser for actually useful tracer effects.
    - 1991 is the Halcyon year of gaming -
     
    Best quote off locked NS2 forum ever:
     
    "The Rifle has a higher DPS than the Shotgun, whether you choose to believe it or not."
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Posts: 1,369Members
    QUOTE (Max @ Mar 30 2012, 09:08 PM) »
    Yes it is only once. It will never happen again unless we make updates to that material. We haven't noticed any frame rate differences in our testing, but we'll be monitoring our collected performance statistics to see if there is a problem.


    I'm hopeful. Outside of the weirdness I was getting, the game looks really good right now and it's nice to see.
    Thanks :)
  • croncron Join Date: 2010-06-21 Member: 72122Posts: 142Members
    The game feels a bit smoother now for me, though no match I played went on longer than 25 minutes due to Oni (Onoseseses), no tactic seems to work against them.
    Also, with the new font smileys look really bad, resulting in less use, my dearest thanks for that!
    "This relentless restlessness"
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