Gorge doesn't need Res for Building anymore.

countbasiecountbasie Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Posts: 820Members
edited March 2012 in NS2 General Discussion
Discuss here.
Leave my thread about the ResFlow alone!

Here you can post as much as you want about the Gorge...and guess what, it will be OnTopic if you do.

Edit:

To be fair, here are the major points that were discussed so far in the other thread:

'When Gorge doesn't need Res for building, does that mean he doesn't need Res for building?'
Some said 'Yes', some said 'Maybe'.

'What will happen when he dies?'
All said: 'I don't know'


Have fun :D
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Posts: 1,566Members
    Oh thank heavens, Gorge utopia a-go!

    For posters' reference:

    QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Mar 28 2012, 11:46 AM) »
    That will be changing soon. The plan is to have the Gorge be able to build cysts/hydras/goo walls, etc, without any res cost, just a limit on how many he can build at any one time. So, less waiting, and more strategizing as to what to build and where.

    --Cory


    QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Mar 28 2012, 01:04 PM) »
    Yeah, he will be able to "eat" his hydras, and other structures. So, he can replace them again in a different spot.

    Also, I think there is going to be an incremental cap, at different Hive levels, but not quite sure.

    --Cory
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  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,131Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    Would be nice if the commander could select structures the gorge could move. Wall mounted whips and ninja crags. Gorge just needs a little engineer hat.
  • incogincog Join Date: 2003-07-26 Member: 18452Posts: 21Members, Constellation
    At first I was upset about the condition of the new Gorge.. this just put a smile on my face. Is there more to come structure wise in the next few builds?
    #cri.onic
  • DJPenguinDJPenguin Useless Join Date: 2003-07-29 Member: 18538Posts: 945Members
    babbler nest building for gorge please!
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  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Posts: 1,566Members
    ^- Lovely idea, I always thought Crag and Gorge goes together nicely, so why not?

    Maybe that "Spider" building in Hive 3 does something like Babblers, who knows...
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  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Posts: 1,767Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2012
    So does this mean killing minicysts, hydra's etc becomes pointless?

    Sounds fun, really does! But i wish UWE goodluck balancing it. For example, adding a cd to building placement is only going to simulate buildings costing res but be frustrating for fast placement. No cd means building and entity spam everywhere (and by this i mean it doesn't matter how many gorge buildings marines kill). So yeah, imo the mechanic seems like it actually may be a bit more limiting than the res based one we have and i can't think of many benefits to strategic depth atm.

    Doesn't mean we can't have experimentation and whatnot i guess =D.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Gorge bilebomb forever.
  • DJPenguinDJPenguin Useless Join Date: 2003-07-29 Member: 18538Posts: 945Members
    QUOTE (elodea @ Mar 28 2012, 08:46 PM) »
    So does this mean killing minicysts, hydra's etc becomes pointless?

    Sounds fun, really does! But i wish UWE goodluck balancing it. For example, adding a cd to building placement is only going to simulate buildings costing res but be frustrating for fast placement. No cd means building and entity spam everywhere (and by this i mean it doesn't matter how many gorge buildings marines kill). So yeah, imo the mechanic seems like it actually may be a bit more limiting than the res based one we have and i can't think of many benefits to strategic depth atm.

    Doesn't mean we can't have experimentation and whatnot i guess =D.


    good points.

    just some things i thought up..

    what if building hydras and the gorge's energy were interlinked somehow? for example, dropping a hydra costs quite a bit of energy and reduces energy regen for a short period of time.. so during combat, the gorge would have to make a decision on whether to try and drop an additional hydra or continuing healing until the fight ceases.

    or make unbuilt hydras even more vulnerable than they are now, such as increased time to fully grow them.



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  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Posts: 1,566Members
    Maybe a "stock" system could work, where the # of buildings place-able would increase over time?

    e.g. a freshly evolved Gorge would only be able to build 1 of everything, but if he's been out healing his buddies and after a while he would find that he can plop up to 3-5 of each building all at once.

    Or the reverse, so each Gorge can puke to his heart's delight but must wait afterward, to "restock" his # of each building place-able at one time.
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  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Posts: 4,613Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2012
    I'm fine with the Gorge's stuff being free but I do think there needs to be some sort of personal resource sink for them(or all players). Otherwise all Gorges will eventually have to go Fade/Onos whether they want to or not just to spend their savings.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • ÒŗăNģёÒŗăNģё Join Date: 2012-02-09 Member: 144437Posts: 133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    BAD IDEA. Hydras need to cost res and be able to spam, one arc will rape any hydra farm no matter how big. Goowall/cyst at no res is fine but still cyst can be spammed alot now with that, so whats the point of com spreading it at his own res cost?
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Posts: 1,566Members
    QUOTE (ÒŗăNģё @ Mar 28 2012, 06:25 PM) »
    BAD IDEA. Hydras need to cost res and be able to spam, one arc will rape any hydra farm no matter how big. Goowall/cyst at no res is fine but still cyst can be spammed alot now with that, so whats the point of com spreading it at his own res cost?


    You never know when a Gorge might want his Mini-Cysts relocated, so a Cyst or two would be more permanent. I hope Hydras get buffed up with limited numbers now.
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  • DeadzoneDeadzone Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17911Posts: 934Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2012
    QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Mar 28 2012, 08:47 PM) »
    I hope Hydras get buffed up with limited numbers now.


    As long as the hydras are limited, I don't see a problem with that. The gorge can tend to his garden, relocate it as needed, and if the marines pick off the gorge, they can clear the nest that much faster.

    Actually, I REALLY like this idea. Limit the gorge's maximum presence but let him relocate as often as needed. (at the cost of build time at new location)

    edit:
    I do want to see the gorge have something to spend personal res on, though, whether it's a buff, "spell," or special super-building that they can only have one at a time out. (like a larger, more powerful Hydra that's limited to one and dies if the gorge dies)
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • TimMcTimMc Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143945Posts: 1,425Members
    Yeah I really like this idea. Being forced to have 5? max hydras - tactically place, tender and pull them down.
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  • ogzogz Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9765Posts: 646Members
    you can make it so gorge can build fast and still be hardcapped to replace a room full of stuff

    lower adren regen rate for gorges and make everything cost less

    hence higher number of buildings able to do with max energy, but will still take ages to recover

    and of course that energy is shared with heal spray, so if you're busy healspraying and your fortress dies, you won't be replacing any time soon
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Posts: 1,903Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I really like this idea. And he doesn't even need a res sink. Not everyone wants to play gorge for the whole round. But right now, if i choose to play gorge, I know, that I can't play onos or fade later. Because I need all my res to be effective as gorge.

    But I'm curious how they want to balance 0-cost mini cysts. Or is this out of the discussion?
  • Ph0enixPh0enix Join Date: 2002-10-08 Member: 1462Posts: 1,513Members, Constellation
    edited March 2012
    My only concern with this is the entire alien team going gorge and flooding a 2nd hive location with hydras at the start of the game. Sure, it puts later lifeforms back a bit but i'd imagine more or less secures the 2nd hive getting built at that location.

    Thinking about it, i'm not even sure if its a problem or not but its something to keep an eye on.

    That aside, me likes :)
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • BalderonBalderon Join Date: 2010-11-23 Member: 75215Posts: 15Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Sounds like a great idea!

    In my opinion it would be cool if they removed the mini cysts ability and instead added some kind of "puke temporary infestation" ability instead. For example, the gorge pukes out infestation at a nearby spot. After 10 seconds the infestation begins to disappear and the gorge has the ability to recast the ability once again (it has about 10 seconds cooldown). The gorge can't leave the spot for too long because then the structures there will start to die thanks to the infestation disappearing.

    Pros
    - The gorge will be able to put pressure on the marine team without the help of anyone, he can sneak into marine lines and start building structures.
    - He can be both defensive and offensive easier and because of that much more useful to the team.

    Cons
    - Removes a part of the teamwork between commander and gorge. Although I bet the gorge and comm can work out some cool tactics with the help of the temporary infestation.
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Posts: 2,189Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited March 2012
    I do have some concerns about this to be honest:
    - What's stopping a team from having everyone go gorge to place the max hydras and then just go skulk again?
    - Hydras need to be built in large amounts to be viable currently, if they intend on capping the total amount they will really need to buff them
    - If gorge can build cysts for free why would commander still have to pay p.res for them? Commander would have no p.res sink if gorges build all the cysts, allowing him to play as a big lifeform again later in the game (tipping the scale against the marine team)
    - Gorge players will also be able to save for fade or onos, increasing the number of those lifeforms later in the game.

    It's an interesting idea, and I'm curious to find out how they would go about implementing it, but there's really some big potential flaws in it. That being said, I'm glad they're finally addressing gorge and hydra viability.

    IMO it would just be better to drop gorge p.res cysts to 1, hydras to 3 or 5 with a cap and 1 - 2 for goowall. That way you'd still have a relatively small (but significant enough) p.res sink for gorge players.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Posts: 3,338Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Wasn't there talk somewhere of moving the drifters to the Alien comm pres? although that may have been just an idea.

    I guess mini cysts would also be limited, and if a gorge wanted to move them, the comm has to cover the network anyway. Gorge cysts are pretty much only used for wall farming hydras anyway...
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Posts: 2,189Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Drifters should cost p.res to be honest, currently marine RTs cost 10 T.res and alien ones cost 12 (2 for drifter and 10 for the RT) This is a considerable disadvantage to be honest. Not to mention the fact that aliens don't have a recycle mechanic either.
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  • CerebralCerebral Join Date: 2003-06-25 Member: 17689Posts: 322Members
    QUOTE (Balderon @ Mar 29 2012, 09:00 AM) »
    In my opinion it would be cool if they removed the mini cysts ability and instead added some kind of "puke temporary infestation" ability instead. For example, the gorge pukes out infestation at a nearby spot. After 10 seconds the infestation begins to disappear and the gorge has the ability to recast the ability once again (it has about 10 seconds cooldown). The gorge can't leave the spot for too long because then the structures there will start to die thanks to the infestation disappearing.


    This is actually exactly how it worked in previous beta builds prior to the creation of the cyst mechanic. It wasn't very fun to play because you constantly had to babysit your structures in order to keep them alive.
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  • IndustryIndustry Esteemed Gentleman Join Date: 2010-07-13 Member: 72344Posts: 698Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    QUOTE (Cerebral @ Mar 29 2012, 04:44 PM) »
    This is actually exactly how it worked in previous beta builds prior to the creation of the cyst mechanic. It wasn't very fun to play because you constantly had to babysit your structures in order to keep them alive.


    Pretty much this. If they don't want a res cost on the minicyst they could make them cost a massive amount of energy (nearly the whole bar) to prevent the gorge from spreading infestation too fast and still have them be permanent, but at the same time this may require an increase of the cost of the comm cyst to make sure infestation isn't spreading in rates that are faster than the current build (which can be a bit ridiculous even now).
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  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Posts: 2,189Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited March 2012
    Take it away from the comm to be honest, or limit it somehow (so comm can still fix the occasional cut off chain instead of having to beg for a gorge to do it), make gorges more essential in spreading infestation and keeping it up. Would also solve the problem of comm just spamming infestation to the frontline to kill mines and stuff.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • IndustryIndustry Esteemed Gentleman Join Date: 2010-07-13 Member: 72344Posts: 698Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Well, I think spreading infestation from the first person perspective is a bit tedious. It is much easier for the comm to do it. The problem with the comm dropping cysts to kill mines I'd say is more linked to the fact they have nothing else to spend pres on so why not kill some mines? I don't think that it is intrinsically an issue of the comm being the primary spreader of the infestation.
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  • MuYeahMuYeah Join Date: 2006-12-26 Member: 59261Posts: 610Members
    edited March 2012
    In some ways this idea is absolutely amazing (freedom of choice, no waiting around for resources) but in others it feels like it's removing player choice and uses for PRes. If the gorge were strengthened as a defensive unit and intended to be more in the frontline like a medic with hydras as backup, rather than the other way round (as we have now) then it'd be OK! They'd have to be on a death-timer (possibly topped up by heal-sprays?), though, otherwise you would get everyone treating the gorge like a transitory lifeform, the poor thing. It doesn't feel right to have hydras around from people who never intend to stay gorge.

    I'm interested to see how it's implemented!
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Posts: 2,189Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    QUOTE (Industry @ Mar 29 2012, 01:08 PM) »
    Well, I think spreading infestation from the first person perspective is a bit tedious. It is much easier for the comm to do it. The problem with the comm dropping cysts to kill mines I'd say is more linked to the fact they have nothing else to spend pres on so why not kill some mines? I don't think that it is intrinsically an issue of the comm being the primary spreader of the infestation.


    TBH Gorges dropping cysts is much more fun imo, you can place sneaky cysts, or just harder to kill ones, since unlike the comm's cyst they can be placed on walls and ceilings.
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  • DJPenguinDJPenguin Useless Join Date: 2003-07-29 Member: 18538Posts: 945Members
    QUOTE (Xarius @ Mar 29 2012, 01:21 PM) »
    TBH Gorges dropping cysts is much more fun imo, you can place sneaky cysts, or just harder to kill ones, since unlike the comm's cyst they can be placed on walls and ceilings.


    indeed, i love making gardens next to marine bases.
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  • IndustryIndustry Esteemed Gentleman Join Date: 2010-07-13 Member: 72344Posts: 698Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    QUOTE (Xarius @ Mar 29 2012, 05:21 PM) »
    TBH Gorges dropping cysts is much more fun imo, you can place sneaky cysts, or just harder to kill ones, since unlike the comm's cyst they can be placed on walls and ceilings.


    Well this is true. I love the ability to put them on the ceilings and the like the issue I am concerned about is that from a first person perspective having to do the whole map would be a bit mind numbing and functionally is a lot easier for the top down view commander using the mouse and hot keys.
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  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Posts: 2,189Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited March 2012
    Yea, if gorge cysts were made more crucial they should probably also deserve an upgrade from mini-cysts to normal cyst, allowing them to cover more ground. (would make the cyst placement process as a gorge less tedious) It's a fairly easy task IMO, and making gorges the main role responsible for them would not only make gorges more fun but it would also benefit the commander-gorge interaction greatly.

    Though I do believe they should still cost like 1 p.res, to balance them out with the alien comm's more expensive ones and give the gorge a minor res sink himself.
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  • IndustryIndustry Esteemed Gentleman Join Date: 2010-07-13 Member: 72344Posts: 698Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    I'd say increase the comm pres cost for cysts slightly then and I would be willing to test that out.
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