Marines speed

bLink`bLink` Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146506Posts: 288Members, Reinforced - Supporter
They're so fast like flash!
I don't know if marines are intended to be faster now? They're faster than skulks.

Skulks got fatter.
Marines went on diet.

I can't even catch up with a marine lol. In this build, it became "rine rush", last build it was "skulk rush".
GTheW6H.jpg

Comments

  • KarnajKarnaj Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146518Posts: 216Members
    It's not mentioned at all in the patch notes, so it may be a bug. But I highly doubt that playtesters would have overlooked it. My guess is that it's a gameplay addition that helps marines defend extractors and key areas of the map, especially in early game. Skulks are now forced to learn wall jumping or preemptively strike in order to get in range. :p
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  • bLink`bLink` Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146506Posts: 288Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    But they have phase gate for a reason.
    GTheW6H.jpg
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Posts: 2,189Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    They already stated the speed is something they still want to revise, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was changed again in 201. Personally I don't mind the sprint buff, it's only in light of the skulk speed nerf that it seems overpowered. If the skulk speed does stay how it is currently, they should probably also consider dropping sprint speed a little.
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  • bLink`bLink` Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146506Posts: 288Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    QUOTE (Xarius @ Mar 16 2012, 08:12 PM) »
    They already stated the speed is something they still want to revise, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was changed again in 201. Personally I don't mind the sprint buff, it's only in light of the skulk speed nerf that it seems overpowered. If the skulk speed does stay how it is currently, they should probably also consider dropping sprint speed a little.


    Yeah, I agree if skulk's speed stays like that, sprinting needs to be decreased a little. Marines tend to rush the hive and kill all the eggs, then kill all the skulks, then the hive. Skulks dies so fast now because of its speed.
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  • PowerfuryOAPowerfuryOA Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148314Posts: 63Members
    QUOTE (bLink` @ Mar 16 2012, 08:15 PM) »
    Yeah, I agree if skulk's speed stays like that, sprinting needs to be decreased a little. Marines tend to rush the hive and kill all the eggs, then kill all the skulks, then the hive. Skulks dies so fast now because of its speed.


    Also, I find it hilarious that a Marine could just turn turn-a-bout-face to his allies and sprint into the other direction while the skulk desperately tries to reach the Marine in time.

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  • FloodinatorFloodinator [HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Posts: 1,301Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    If you drop your guns, you can even outrun lerks :-).
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  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Posts: 1,803Members
    It is my theory that this sprint buff is having a much larger affect on the game than we think.

    Seriously, I think 50% of the reason aliens are losing so much right now can be directly tied to this speed increase.
  • bLink`bLink` Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146506Posts: 288Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Mar 17 2012, 11:15 AM) »
    It is my theory that this sprint buff is having a much larger affect on the game than we think.

    Seriously, I think 50% of the reason aliens are losing so much right now can be directly tied to this speed increase.


    Yeah, they can be right in front of you in a blink.
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  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Posts: 388Members
    I'm not quite sure as to how everyone always has an opinion on how something should be. I play aliens I do well, I go marine, I do well. I can't really identify an issue simply because marine speed feels different.

    Sure marines run faster now. But it feels good, it feels satisfying. The skulks are still capable, still very strong. Most people are simply not good at playing skulk, they play it like they're a marine, they attack on the ground head on. Try ambushing, use parasite before biting for chance of needing 1 less bite. Also try and click to bit when you need to instead of holding the button down.

    The only judgement I can make is that playing both sides is very easy. There is no longer leap + focus, or a steady 1 hit kill shotgun. The game is slowed down a bit from both team perspectives. Once everyone's skill become relative to one another, the game will probably feel frustrating for I feel the skill cap is a bit low.
  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Posts: 388Members
    QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Mar 17 2012, 12:15 PM) »
    It is my theory that this sprint buff is having a much larger affect on the game than we think.

    Seriously, I think 50% of the reason aliens are losing so much right now can be directly tied to this speed increase.


    In my experience, the team wins I'm playing on every single time almost. I play marine and alien equally.

    The new sprint doesn't make a marine harder to kill. It simply lets them rotate around the map faster. A marine can now sprint away from a skulk, but what do you expect?! A marine can't walk backwards! They only option a marine has is to fight or run. Last path running was less of an option.


  • AegisXIAegisXI Join Date: 2012-02-11 Member: 144985Posts: 55Members
    I don't really like the nerf on skulks speed, but I remember someone telling me youll hafta keep hopping with skulk to get that momentum that they had in b199 (Idk if thats true or not). I think it's almost a way to prevent skulk rushing. Im also thinking they should revise sprint speed as well for marines, but when I think about it skulks are they not suppose to be sneaky and ambush your enemy? Thats the only way I think of using skulk now since the maps do have narrow passage ways.
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  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Posts: 1,850Members
    Well the problem of skulks being ambush-only is that Kharaa lack any meaningful way to actually attack marine positions. Gorges are support at best, and Lerks are too hit-and-run focused to survive long under concentrated fire. We used to have Skulks to fill this role: the fast-dodging footsoldier that could zerg-rush into enemy positions to weaken them with time.

    I'm not saying the movement speed adjustments were a bad thing, but it's a lot harder to kill a marine just sitting at the end of a hallway now.

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  • DarkOmenDarkOmen Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7148Posts: 600Members
    The current skulk speed is nice because it really clears up melee combat between skulks and marines. I think that skulk walljumping is supposed to let the skulk "sprint" across the map to get to where they need to be a la b199 speed. The game definitely feels less random for it.
  • KarnajKarnaj Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146518Posts: 216Members
    QUOTE (bLink` @ Mar 16 2012, 09:09 PM) »
    But they have phase gate for a reason.

    I know, and this is why I mentioned early-game. How often do you see comms prioritizing phase gates over mines/shotties/arms lab upgrades? Perhaps in competitive matches where you need to secure a location asap, but otherwise, it's risky. Also, take into account maps like tram, where extractors can be a pain for marines to reach in order to defend.

    I actually like the sprint mechanic the way it is now. You start sprinting from 5 speed, and upon reaching half of the sprint's total duration, you reach 9 speed. This requires sprinting in a straight line, however, and moving your mouse or strafing dramatically lowers your speed. It immediately starts decreasing from 9 to 5 for the last half of the sprint. This is a lot more balanced than, lets say, a uniform 9 speed sprint. I can tell the team put a lot of thought into it.

    I agree that the max sprint speed should be decreased to perhaps 8, though. It's silly watching the marine sprinting animation when compared to how much distance he actually covers.
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  • cH40z-LordcH40z-Lord Join Date: 2009-07-26 Member: 68269Posts: 94Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (Karnaj @ Mar 17 2012, 07:28 PM) »
    I agree that the max sprint speed should be decreased to perhaps 8, though. It's silly watching the marine sprinting animation when compared to how much distance he actually covers.


    I agree, the sprint animation doesn't fix very well to the actual speed. It looks like the Marine does some Nordic Walking instead of sprinting. This should be adjusted.
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Posts: 2,189Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Mar 17 2012, 11:15 AM) »
    It is my theory that this sprint buff is having a much larger affect on the game than we think.

    Seriously, I think 50% of the reason aliens are losing so much right now can be directly tied to this speed increase.


    I honestly think it has more to do with the skulk movement change than with the sprint buff. AND with the improvement of hit registration. This is something I and others have been saying for a while now, it's mainly marines who benefit when the game and its hit registration become further optimised. The sprint buff would be more or less fine if they reverted skulk movement. (If they don't sprint does have to be nerfed again as well imo)
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  • noncomposmentisnoncomposmentis Join Date: 2004-11-13 Member: 32773Posts: 342Members
    edited March 2012
    QUOTE (Xarius @ Mar 17 2012, 01:18 PM) »
    I honestly think it has more to do with the skulk movement change than with the sprint buff. AND with the improvement of hit registration. This is something I and others have been saying for a while now, it's mainly marines who benefit when the game and its hit registration become further optimised. The sprint buff would be more or less fine if they reverted skulk movement. (If they don't sprint does have to be nerfed again as well imo)


    Skulk speed hasn't changed that much and is still faster than 198 when aliens were winning often enough. Once you adapt to the changes in wall-walking, jumping and "bunny hopping" you can keep your speed above the base speed easily. The big change is marine speed. It is just so easy to get out of melee range now.

    Charlie has said that the reason he keeps boosting marine sprint is so that they can defend far off extractors under attack. I honestly don't understand this at all. If an extractor is "far off" doesn't that mean that you're overextended on the map, and why wouldn't that affect aliens as well? As far as I've seen in game, for both teams, whoever can kill the opposing team wins access to their extractors to deny them the resources to tech up. Seems fair. If anything this is less true for marines who have sprint, phase gates and jetpacks to quickly access the whole map.
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  • IronHorseIronHorse CDT Technical Support & QA Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 6,521Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Community Dev Team, Pistachionauts admin
    yea cuz jetpacks are so common? ::sarcasm alert::
    they are the most expensive thing to go for in the entire game currently and are more like the victory lap for marines as a result. i feel once exosuit comes in, we might see jetpacks more easily obtainable and extractors will be easier to cover etc.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

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  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Posts: 4,983Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow mod
    QUOTE (bLink` @ Mar 16 2012, 05:09 PM) »
    But they have phase gate for a reason.

    Except that one skulk or fade can turn a pg into a meatgrinder. In practice, it means that in some cases its quicker to run to a forward base than use the PG if you want to stay alive.
  • KarnajKarnaj Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146518Posts: 216Members
    QUOTE (cH40z-Lord @ Mar 17 2012, 02:59 PM) »
    It looks like the Marine does some Nordic Walking instead of sprinting.

    I just looked that up, and it's pretty similar. As it is now, the rifle-butt should be replaced with a front kick that does the same knock back, except it's more effective upon sprinting. Then we could re-enact our favorites action heroes like Steven Seagal and Leonidas. :P
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  • Shrike3OShrike3O Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6678Posts: 718Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (ironhorse @ Mar 17 2012, 01:49 PM) »
    yea cuz jetpacks are so common? ::sarcasm alert::


    Jetpacks kick in once the marines have an armory (10), upgraded to advanced armory (30), then a protolab built (40), and have managed to research Jetpack (60). So, 120 points into the game, rather than 75 like a second hive, assuming you build absolutely nothing else. Straight-up jetpack rush is an interesting idea for a marine strategy, but I don't think I've ever actually seen it.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Posts: 4,983Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow mod
    QUOTE (Shrike3O @ Mar 17 2012, 06:03 PM) »
    Jetpacks kick in once the marines have an armory (10), upgraded to advanced armory (30), then a protolab built (40), and have managed to research Jetpack (60). So, 120 points into the game, rather than 75 like a second hive, assuming you build absolutely nothing else. Straight-up jetpack rush is an interesting idea for a marine strategy, but I don't think I've ever actually seen it.

    I've seen it and it doesn't work too well. No upgrade/lmg marines with JPs are only slightly better against fades than no upgrade/lmg marines without JPs. You really need SGs + lvl2 armor + JP to make it an even fight.
  • ogzogz Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9765Posts: 646Members
    Ive seen the jp shotty rush before

    yes it did kill our second hive but we had fades which were able to defend the 3rd hive going up + marines lost most of their pres in the jp/shotty rush so couldn't keep up a strong jp/shotty presense (armor 2 was far far away)
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Posts: 1,137Members
    With the axe out those little buggers can deck it real good!
  • TimMcTimMc Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143945Posts: 1,425Members
    Its just made second hive EVEN MORE important. As a skulk I was constantly being outrun by marines, and corridors were once again impossible journeys.

    Once you get the second hive, you can leap and bunny hop to maintain momentum. Its also a bit silly how you can leap mid-hop, for even more speed.
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