Build 200 - Skulk Movement Atrocious

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Comments

  • Kama_BlueKama_Blue Join Date: 2012-03-13 Member: 148710Posts: 108Members

    You guys are picking at movement speed when that's not exactly the issue. You're dying more, because they changed hitbox interactions.
    Maybe you feel slow, but you're really mad that it's seemingly far more than a little bit harder to dodge bullets now, and the constant deaths as skulk are wearing on everybody.


    Fixed discrepancies between the server and client animations when checking if bullets hit.

    Hitboxes i'm pretty sure used to be off sync, and your character model lagged a split second behind where the hitbox actually was. Which meant quite a bit of marine bullets were missing you by default, even if they could aim. This became even more exaggerated when you were strafing or moving side to side, as the hitbox would be blatantly out of the firing cone of whatever was shooting at you.

    Hence skulks jumped, strafed and pounced like idiots, marines didn't hit them, they killed marines.

    The issue was that marines were somewhat balanced around this, and as a result it takes about 10 clips of a rifle to kill a skulk.

    And because of the hitbox changes, those 10 hits are quite a bit easier to hit now, which makes it feel like your "Slowness" isn't letting you get to the target in time, when in reality your hitbox is just right where it should be, and marines should have killed you 1000 times before.

    This is also hurting gorge and lerk pretty bad too, hence why you're dying so quickly on all three. Much faster than you were before.
  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Posts: 1,457Members, NS2 Map Tester
    The new skill jump is pretty terrible, though. It's so broken.
    image
  • BVKnightBVKnight Join Date: 2012-02-26 Member: 147496Posts: 194Members
    I don't know what the actual speed numbers are, but there's one actual situation that ought to be addressed:

    When I was a skulk, I hid in the ceiling until a marine ran by under me. Then I dropped down behind him and went to bite him...only to find that he was much faster than me, and I couldn't close the distance. I don't think he was sprinting, but I'm not sure.

    Is this the situation the developers intended? That skulks can not outrun their prey, or catch them?
  • SkieSkie Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Posts: 656Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2012
    QUOTE (Hemi @ Mar 16 2012, 12:15 PM) »
    seems like a fair game now, since 85% of all games was won by the Aliens last build. Was almost like playing with godmode on lol. Too easy.

    71% alien victories last patch. And indeed, skulk was too fast. Celerity is yet to come and it needs to be something that really feels advantageous even at 1st hive.

    QUOTE (ironhorse @ Mar 16 2012, 11:34 AM) »
    your thread was addressed?
    i thought it was just the lerk animation that was lag compensated??
    is it not 250 ms still for skulks?

    It still takes 250ms for the skulk to take damage, but a lot of hits simply went missing in 199. You could empty a full rifle clip on skulk legs without getting a single hit, or anything that was quickly animating. That was mostly fixed by Max, there's still the odd chance that 1 bullet out of 10 goes missing if you shoot at a very rapidly animated part (tip of lerk wing/tip of skulk leg etc). Aim for the body. :)

    QUOTE (BVKnight @ Mar 16 2012, 04:41 PM) »
    I don't know what the actual speed numbers are, but there's one actual situation that ought to be addressed:

    When I was a skulk, I hid in the ceiling until a marine ran by under me. Then I dropped down behind him and went to bite him...only to find that he was much faster than me, and I couldn't close the distance. I don't think he was sprinting, but I'm not sure.

    Is this the situation the developers intended? That skulks can not outrun their prey, or catch them?

    Nope, not intended. We're trying pretty radical changes out each build and then flatten them out to find the fine balance. However you go faster as a skulk if you jump from walls, so I'd suggest trying that during build 200.


    b200's skulk movement is a step to a better direction, but it still needs iteration.
    PS. I think ns2_skulkjump is again doable to some degree, but I need to update the map to fit the movement better.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • ogzogz Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9765Posts: 646Members
    please teach us the new jump mechanics skie :p

    (btw, hope ppl remembered 199 start everyone was complaining on release day until they figured out the mechanics.. then suddenly they were all for it...... so give this one some time too)
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Posts: 1,692Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2012
    I feel like the speed dropoff should be slower, you lose speed too quickly - on maps like mineshaft you can really build up any speed since you very often lack a usefull wall(crappy railings, rock etc.) or you cant make a walljump because its going "uphill"(stairs etc.) ...

    Currently you are not really allowed to make more than 2 normal jumps between walljumps, otherwise you wont be able to stack up speed...
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • bLink`bLink` Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146506Posts: 288Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited March 2012
    QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 16 2012, 07:51 AM) »
    The new skill jump is pretty terrible, though. It's so broken.


    Skulks are just fat.

    ---

    Using walljumps, skulks bounces to gain speed, cuz he's fat lol.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    GTheW6H.jpg
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Mar 15 2012, 09:03 PM) »
    Why is air strafing even in the game. Smells like a precursor to bringing back bunny hopping. A monotonous skill mechanic, yay.


    The air control does help to make skulks less floaty, it feels a lot more natural and less like you're launching yourself into a ballistic arc with every jump or leap.
  • SlithersSlithers Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73368Posts: 121Members
    QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 16 2012, 07:51 AM) »
    The new skill jump is pretty terrible, though. It's so broken.



    It has always been broken.... even in build 198 it was broken, but for some magical reason, people actually believed it was a work of art or some "skill based movement". Build 199 had the most skill based movement of any build, whether YOU want to see that or not.

    Now it's just another bland movement style that makes a class less intriguing to play, once again. You type stuff out going, who can't strafe and press wasd wasd in the air, but that's funny because I've played against you many times and you weren't very good. I would go in to games and get over 50 kills on a skulk before I even go fade.. mean while the other 95% of the players couldn't.

    This isn't about just going "wasd wasd" in the air, in any game you play, there is a hidden game within the game and if you can't see that, then your missing a piece of the game. It's like counter-strike 1.6 - You can bunny hop if you really try and do it, it's easy to type out, all you do is wiggle your mouse and type a d in the air, but we both know that's not what it's about. Only really good players can do it on a regular basis and in the right situation, these same rules apply to the build 199 skulk movement. So continue please, tell us another story on how easy everything is to do, but you haven't shown anybody your capable of doing it yourself yet.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    There's a difference between knowing how to do something and doing it.

    I know how to play RTS games relatively well, but that doesn't mean I do, because while rushing, being extremely aggressive, exploiting weakness, backstabbing, and generally being a ###### to everyone is a very good way to win, I don't actually enjoy doing that. I much prefer to just build a smallish base and a few fun units and see how efficiently I can use them, and I will do that every game if I can, because I find no enjoyment in playing the other way.

    Similarly, while I'm sure I could learn to bunnyhop, I would much rather simply find another class to play, or another game to play if I have to, because I have no desire to play a game where I need to press five or six buttons just to move forwards properly.
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Posts: 4,160Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (Slithers @ Mar 16 2012, 02:20 PM) »
    It has always been broken.... even in build 198 it was broken, but for some magical reason, people actually believed it was a work of art or some "skill based movement". Build 199 had the most skill based movement of any build, whether YOU want to see that or not.

    Now it's just another bland movement style that makes a class less intriguing to play, once again. You type stuff out going, who can't strafe and press wasd wasd in the air, but that's funny because I've played against you many times and you weren't very good. I would go in to games and get over 50 kills on a skulk before I even go fade.. mean while the other 95% of the players couldn't.

    This isn't about just going "wasd wasd" in the air, in any game you play, there is a hidden game within the game and if you can't see that, then your missing a piece of the game. It's like counter-strike 1.6 - You can bunny hop if you really try and do it, it's easy to type out, all you do is wiggle your mouse and type a d in the air, but we both know that's not what it's about. Only really good players can do it on a regular basis and in the right situation, these same rules apply to the build 199 skulk movement. So continue please, tell us another story on how easy everything is to do, but you haven't shown anybody your capable of doing it yourself yet.


    b199 skulk movement was not skill. it really wasn't. you could literally approach a marine frontally down a long corridor without any obstacles to hide behind, and have a 50/50 shot of killing the marine without dying without practicing any sort of movement skill at all. it's ridiculous if you think that abusing ridiculous air control is "skilled" in any fashion.

    Also, you still do have quite a bit of air control as a skulk. It's just not terrifyingly easy to use now.
    QUOTE (EEK)
    Don't assume that because I said something it means I actually was thinking that the core of the sun was going to be replaced with hot dogs.
  • ogzogz Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9765Posts: 646Members
    the huge shift in direction in the air + the prediction code meant that most of the time the skulks is not where you are trying to shoot it. Its nice to have the air control for the skulk but it is probably a bit unfair in the effect it causes for other players

    (Btw, net_Stats has a new item - prediction, shows you how many frames is being predicted for you)

  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Posts: 1,457Members, NS2 Map Tester
    QUOTE (Slithers @ Mar 16 2012, 02:20 PM) »
    It has always been broken.... even in build 198 it was broken, but for some magical reason, people actually believed it was a work of art or some "skill based movement". Build 199 had the most skill based movement of any build, whether YOU want to see that or not.

    Now it's just another bland movement style that makes a class less intriguing to play, once again. You type stuff out going, who can't strafe and press wasd wasd in the air, but that's funny because I've played against you many times and you weren't very good. I would go in to games and get over 50 kills on a skulk before I even go fade.. mean while the other 95% of the players couldn't.

    This isn't about just going "wasd wasd" in the air, in any game you play, there is a hidden game within the game and if you can't see that, then your missing a piece of the game. It's like counter-strike 1.6 - You can bunny hop if you really try and do it, it's easy to type out, all you do is wiggle your mouse and type a d in the air, but we both know that's not what it's about. Only really good players can do it on a regular basis and in the right situation, these same rules apply to the build 199 skulk movement. So continue please, tell us another story on how easy everything is to do, but you haven't shown anybody your capable of doing it yourself yet.


    198 skulk was alright. 199 skill jumps were alright, but the base movement speed was a joke.

    199 skulk movement (minus skill jumps) were a joke. They took no skill to charge down a hallway mashing your space bar and wasd to close the gap with marine. Sorry, but no. That took no skill to flail around.
    image
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Posts: 1,692Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2012
    Skie where is your walljump video? :3 (but maybe also show it on mineshaft instead only summit)

    I think the speed dropoff is too fast so you are only allowed to make like 2 jumps inbetween walljumps otherwise you wont build up any speed... Making your average speed with walljumping(on maps that are not very walljump friendly) maybe around 8-8.5 which isnt really worth the hassle. (but well i take what i get)

    I think the speed drop over time should be slower so you can move a bit more around (=> timing the followup walljumps will be a bit easier)


    btw. does the speed drop faster if im in the higher areas? i feel like if i get around 11+ it wants to go back to around 9-10 very fast.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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