<!--quoteo(post=1910401:date=Mar 6 2012, 02:07 AM:name=Krizzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Krizzen @ Mar 6 2012, 02:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1910401"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Skulk movement concerns me. In previous builds, namely 197 (last one I played), skulk movement was fantastic. I got the hang of the skill jumping and could blaze through corridors, flying at marines like a missile. It was so fun.
Now, skulks hardly have forward momentum, yet have a massive amount of strafing ability and air control that is a bit ridiculous.
Compound this slow forward, fast strafe, and seemingly removed skill jumping system with the new extremely sticky feet, and skulking is no longer a pleasure to maneuver. Skulking is now a constant tug of war with these mechanics to either charge marines head on or find a nice cozy hiding spot.
I believe a proper solution would be to start fresh with the old model but with a bit lower "soft speed limit", a wee-bit more air control, and more reliable stickiness when jumping into a wall and more clingyness when transferring from wall to ceiling.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulk forward speed = 8 Skulk strafe speed = 8
I agree that the air control is a bit wonky. I saw this in UT2k4 where some servers had ridiculously high air control. I'm not a fan. I think it is silly, unintuitive, and awkward to play with/against. The skill jumps are still in the game, though. When you're on a wall, face off it and jump after about half a second of pushing off the wall.
So if your back is to the wall, you would hold w then, after half a second or so, jump. You can also do this on the ground, but you have to have the delay in there.
If you're running along a wall with the wall on your left side; Holding W to go forward. Then start your jump by tapping D and jumping a noticeable fraction of a second later (about 1/3 to 1/2 of a second). The longer you are able to push off the wall before you jump, the further and faster you will go.
Think of it like jumping in real life. Pushing off the wall (movement keys in a direction away from the wall) is like starting to bend your legs for a jump. Using the example of the wall on your left above. If you immediately jump as your start bending your legs (equivalent to hitting D + jump at the same time), then you don't jump at all. If you wait that fraction of a second to fully collapse your legs before initializing your jump (akin to holding D for 1/2 a second before jumping), then you jump a lot higher. Same principles apply in game to skulks.
Try it out and you'll find that wall jumping still works in this build. Most of my on-the-ground skill jumps boost me up to 9-10 speed. The true wall skill jump typically get me up to 12-14 speed. It also helps if you look angled slightly up and away from the wall in the direction you want to go. Remember, you always have to push off the wall for half a second before you jump.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1910383:date=Mar 6 2012, 06:37 AM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Mar 6 2012, 06:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1910383"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not this much....ive never played a game where if the server was slow my fps would suffer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As far as I recall, this can be changed by changing one line of code. As stated by Max. It's a "design decision". It should be changed, asap ;)
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1910716:date=Mar 6 2012, 11:46 PM:name=LV426-Colonist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LV426-Colonist @ Mar 6 2012, 11:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1910716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the subject of this thread: aliens should be agile and fast.
Are they not already? Fade blink is ridiculously fast and with the new skulk movement its 2x harder to actually kill them.
They are plenty fast. If not too fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They could be considered fast, but they definately do not play in an agile manner in my opinion.
Skulk: The current movement and walljumping system feels like you are under water and is incredibly slow in performing actions (like a walljump).
Fade: While they may move at a decent pace, the current blink makes it difficult to get to exactly the spot you want (It does not feel agile at all, it infact feels quite clumsy).
Add to this a collision detection system clearly designed for an environment with little up and down movement (conventional shooters). Aliens do not feel agile at all.
<!--quoteo(post=1910716:date=Mar 6 2012, 06:46 PM:name=LV426-Colonist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LV426-Colonist @ Mar 6 2012, 06:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1910716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the subject of this thread: aliens should be agile and fast.
Are they not already? Fade blink is ridiculously fast and with the new skulk movement its 2x harder to actually kill them.
They are plenty fast. If not too fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulk is incredibly clunky unless you predictably run on walls and take an extra-long route toward things, in which case you might go faster if you perform the wacky inconsistent walljump/wallrun technique correctly. The lerk is just always really slow, to the point that there's no point evolving to it unless you want to avoid all combat and have slightly more health than a skulk.
DghelneshiAims to surpass Fana in post edits.Join Date: 2011-11-01Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited March 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1910557:date=Mar 6 2012, 07:20 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Mar 6 2012, 07:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1910557"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As far as I recall, this can be changed by changing one line of code. As stated by Max. It's a "design decision". It should be changed, asap ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, sure. Disable client prediction. Gonna be a great game. <i>I'm not being sarcastic at all!</i> iirc, in the post you are trying to refer to, Max stated that he could change that one line so that you can still run around when the server crashes or you lose your connection in any other fashion.
<!--quoteo(post=1910383:date=Mar 6 2012, 06:37 AM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Mar 6 2012, 06:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1910383"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not this much....ive never played a game where if the server was slow my fps would suffer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And have you ever played a multiplayer-shooter with all gameplay code entirely in LUA?
Comments
Now, skulks hardly have forward momentum, yet have a massive amount of strafing ability and air control that is a bit ridiculous.
Compound this slow forward, fast strafe, and seemingly removed skill jumping system with the new extremely sticky feet, and skulking is no longer a pleasure to maneuver. Skulking is now a constant tug of war with these mechanics to either charge marines head on or find a nice cozy hiding spot.
I believe a proper solution would be to start fresh with the old model but with a bit lower "soft speed limit", a wee-bit more air control, and more reliable stickiness when jumping into a wall and more clingyness when transferring from wall to ceiling.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulk forward speed = 8
Skulk strafe speed = 8
I agree that the air control is a bit wonky. I saw this in UT2k4 where some servers had ridiculously high air control. I'm not a fan. I think it is silly, unintuitive, and awkward to play with/against. The skill jumps are still in the game, though. When you're on a wall, face off it and jump after about half a second of pushing off the wall.
So if your back is to the wall, you would hold w then, after half a second or so, jump. You can also do this on the ground, but you have to have the delay in there.
If you're running along a wall with the wall on your left side; Holding W to go forward. Then start your jump by tapping D and jumping a noticeable fraction of a second later (about 1/3 to 1/2 of a second). The longer you are able to push off the wall before you jump, the further and faster you will go.
Think of it like jumping in real life. Pushing off the wall (movement keys in a direction away from the wall) is like starting to bend your legs for a jump. Using the example of the wall on your left above. If you immediately jump as your start bending your legs (equivalent to hitting D + jump at the same time), then you don't jump at all. If you wait that fraction of a second to fully collapse your legs before initializing your jump (akin to holding D for 1/2 a second before jumping), then you jump a lot higher. Same principles apply in game to skulks.
Try it out and you'll find that wall jumping still works in this build. Most of my on-the-ground skill jumps boost me up to 9-10 speed. The true wall skill jump typically get me up to 12-14 speed. It also helps if you look angled slightly up and away from the wall in the direction you want to go. Remember, you always have to push off the wall for half a second before you jump.
As far as I recall, this can be changed by changing one line of code. As stated by Max.
It's a "design decision". It should be changed, asap ;)
Are they not already? Fade blink is ridiculously fast and with the new skulk movement its 2x harder to actually kill them.
They are plenty fast. If not too fast.
Are they not already? Fade blink is ridiculously fast and with the new skulk movement its 2x harder to actually kill them.
They are plenty fast. If not too fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They could be considered fast, but they definately do not play in an agile manner in my opinion.
Skulk: The current movement and walljumping system feels like you are under water and is incredibly slow in performing actions (like a walljump).
Fade: While they may move at a decent pace, the current blink makes it difficult to get to exactly the spot you want (It does not feel agile at all, it infact feels quite clumsy).
Add to this a collision detection system clearly designed for an environment with little up and down movement (conventional shooters). Aliens do not feel agile at all.
Are they not already? Fade blink is ridiculously fast and with the new skulk movement its 2x harder to actually kill them.
They are plenty fast. If not too fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulk is incredibly clunky unless you predictably run on walls and take an extra-long route toward things, in which case you might go faster if you perform the wacky inconsistent walljump/wallrun technique correctly. The lerk is just always really slow, to the point that there's no point evolving to it unless you want to avoid all combat and have slightly more health than a skulk.
It's a "design decision". It should be changed, asap ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, sure. Disable client prediction. Gonna be a great game. <i>I'm not being sarcastic at all!</i>
iirc, in the post you are trying to refer to, Max stated that he could change that one line so that you can still run around when the server crashes or you lose your connection in any other fashion.
<!--quoteo(post=1910383:date=Mar 6 2012, 06:37 AM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Mar 6 2012, 06:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1910383"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not this much....ive never played a game where if the server was slow my fps would suffer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And have you ever played a multiplayer-shooter with all gameplay code entirely in LUA?