Fade Blink

1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Posts: 1,136Members
Make him damageable while in blink
What the description says, I can't help but think that invincibility, flight, almost invisibility and great speed is a bit much. Why not make him like the NS1 fade in the sense that you can actually damage him while his in blink? Keep everything else but change this one thing, I think it might go along way to make the fade actually have to be cautious (no more blinking into 6 marines and sniping half of them). Thoughts?
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Comments

  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Posts: 388Members
    edited February 2012
    I'm not sure that would be sufficient. I feel the fade is very strong right now, partly due to there being no heavy armor. I think it may be more appropriate to increase the delay in which the fade can teleport. That would enable marines to get off more damage before the fade leaves. Right now its very hard to land any shots with how rapidly the fade can displace.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,426Members
    If he's damageable in blink do you mean he should stay visible at all times?

    I think the Fade is pretty much OK after all he's the Aliens 2nd strongest life form that costs 50 res. Well aiming shotgun marines can take one down. Aiming does have a lot to do with fps though which is a problem for many of us.

    If I play cautiously I can get very high k/d ratio as a fade, much higher than I could get with a marine so it probably could be nerfed a bit. The teleportation delay is a good idea...make it take a second to enter that invisible flying mode instead of being instantaneous.
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Posts: 1,136Members
    edited February 2012
    QUOTE (peregrinus @ Feb 28 2012, 11:19 PM) »
    If he's damageable in blink do you mean he should stay visible at all times?

    I think the Fade is pretty much OK after all he's the Aliens 2nd strongest life form that costs 50 res. Well aiming shotgun marines can take one down. Aiming does have a lot to do with fps though which is a problem for many of us.

    If I play cautiously I can get very high k/d ratio as a fade, much higher than I could get with a marine so it probably could be nerfed a bit. The teleportation delay is a good idea...make it take a second to enter that invisible flying mode instead of being instantaneous.


    No the visuals are the same, you can just shoot him while he is blinked if you know where to aim. I also regularly go absurdly high kds as fade and it feels rather silly, but not nearly as annoying as when playing as marine and being on the receiving end.

    Of course you have to consider that the fade is just about the only thing keeping aliens from getting pwned every game (note how drastically the tide turns the moment 2nd hive goes up) so if the fade/marine play gets a change favouring marines the skulk/lerk/marine play would need a buff favouring skulks/lerks.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Posts: 4,160Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    i'd rather have blink have a slightly longer acceleration phase than have fades be vulnerable during blink.
    QUOTE (EEK)
    Don't assume that because I said something it means I actually was thinking that the core of the sun was going to be replaced with hot dogs.
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Posts: 1,136Members
    QUOTE (Wheeee @ Feb 28 2012, 11:26 PM) »
    i'd rather have blink have a slightly longer acceleration phase than have fades be vulnerable during blink.


    I do not think that would change anything, unless this change would decrease it's energy efficiency. The problem at the moment imo is that fade can go invisible, invincible and fly at will. Gives the fade complete control of the circumstances of engagement and makes it practically impossible to retaliate or finish him off.
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Posts: 4,160Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    longer acceleration = easier to track fade's trajectory, longer blink to get where you want, and more stamina usage due to the longer blink. it could work.
    QUOTE (EEK)
    Don't assume that because I said something it means I actually was thinking that the core of the sun was going to be replaced with hot dogs.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,087Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    I'm all for fades being vulnerable to gunfire during blinks. Just gunfire, no explosions or flames. Although the inclusion of motion tracking would make it very troublesome.

    But it is definitely needed for fades who just blink at marines and blinks straight out the door if he's at low health. Giving the fade the ability to see bullet tracers while blinking would probably increase the fun factor while dodging around marine fire. Like a bullet hell game. :V
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Posts: 1,136Members
    QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Feb 28 2012, 11:39 PM) »
    I'm all for fades being vulnerable to gunfire during blinks. Just gunfire, no explosions or flames. Although the inclusion of motion tracking would make it very troublesome.

    But it is definitely needed for fades who just blink at marines and blinks straight out the door if he's at low health. Giving the fade the ability to see bullet tracers while blinking would probably increase the fun factor while dodging around marine fire. Like a bullet hell game. :V


    That is actually a very cool idea. Let you get shot, but also give you a chance to avoid those shots.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Posts: 3,178Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited February 2012
    Just wait until dual mini-guns are in the game, ripping fades to shreds like the hmgs did in ns1, then you'll be asking for a fade boost rather than invincibility while blinking removed :)

    As for fade movement, the Momentum mod by Yuuki is perfect :)
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Posts: 1,136Members
    edited February 2012
    QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Feb 29 2012, 12:00 AM) »
    Just wait until dual mini-guns are in the game, ripping fades to shreds like the hmgs did in ns1, then you'll be asking for a fade boost rather than invincibility while blinking removed :)

    As for fade movement, the Momentum mod by Yuuki is perfect :)


    I dont think marines should have to wait until exo to kill fades, and this still does not solve the issue that fighting fades as regular marines is frustrating and not fun (unless you like the respawn que). Imo. I dunno about the momentum mod, I dont have the experience to judge what that would do.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Posts: 4,160Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (1dominator1 @ Feb 29 2012, 01:04 AM) »
    I dont think marines should have to wait until exo to kill fades, and this still does not solve the issue that fighting fades as regular marines is frustrating and not fun (unless you like the respawn que). Imo


    learn to aim with shotgun
    QUOTE (EEK)
    Don't assume that because I said something it means I actually was thinking that the core of the sun was going to be replaced with hot dogs.
  • SampsonSampson Join Date: 2012-01-06 Member: 139769Posts: 269Members
    ^what he said. and when the fades teleport you can still partially see them and see where they are going.. you just can't hit them. but u can wait until they run out of energy and shoot it as it's coming out of blink.

    blink is fine. exo and jps will/can kill fades easily. 1 to 2 decent marines with shotty can kill a fade. a shotty and a flamethrower could. having to wait on exo to own fades is fine, because then aliens need to get onos to match (if they even can) exos and jps (miniguns, dual miniguns, etc).
    QUOTE (Lofung @ Nov 16 2012, 12:36 AM) »
    ditto.

  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Posts: 1,136Members
    QUOTE (Sampson @ Feb 29 2012, 12:08 AM) »
    ^what he said. and when the fades teleport you can still partially see them and see where they are going.. you just can't hit them. but u can wait until they run out of energy and shoot it as it's coming out of blink.

    blink is fine. exo and jps will/can kill fades easily. 1 to 2 decent marines with shotty can kill a fade. a shotty and a flamethrower could. having to wait on exo to own fades is fine, because then aliens need to get onos to match (if they even can) exos and jps (miniguns, dual miniguns, etc).



    Because fades always have the courtesy to attack alone and from the front.
  • Trance420Trance420 Join Date: 2010-03-31 Member: 71135Posts: 33Members
    where's the heavy machine gun?
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,087Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    I generally do a sidejump when a fade is about to unblink next to me. Giving precious time for a shotgun blast to it's face. With weapons3 it's well within your ability to solo a fade if you're using a shotgun.

    New fades have generally predictable pathways, if it's not to the front it's from the side. Personally I'd like to see more vertical flight in pub fades, and backwards blinking(My favorite).
  • ÒŗăNģёÒŗăNģё Join Date: 2012-02-09 Member: 144437Posts: 133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Bad idea, fade is very weak out of blink, it needs this blink otherwise it would need 200 carapace again.
  • John BlackthorneJohn Blackthorne Join Date: 2012-02-23 Member: 147245Posts: 44Members
    edited February 2012
    Just food for though the fade is quite weak overall it has low armor and health as well as zero adrenaline regen its in need of some love. Blink is the only thing it has going for it.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    "Oh I know Hamlet. And what he might say with irony, I say with conviction: What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty, in form and moving how express and admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god!" -Jean-Luc Picard
  • Bobo44Bobo44 Join Date: 2011-11-02 Member: 130749Posts: 22Members
    don't know why there is disagreement on this. i can barely get half of the score as a marine compared to what i get as a fade. i don't know if its fps/skill/wrong weapon or whatever but when i'm a fade, i even dare to challenge groups of 5 marines and it feels like they can't kill me. all the difference is, i hit and run. fades general scores are like 20-50 kills with 0 deaths. all the deaths are from being skulks if there are any deaths.

    very rare for a fade to die, usually they die because of energy management issues or they took a risk and stayed in the battle.
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Posts: 1,136Members
    edited February 2012
    QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Feb 29 2012, 12:29 AM) »
    I generally do a sidejump when a fade is about to unblink next to me. Giving precious time for a shotgun blast to it's face. With weapons3 it's well within your ability to solo a fade if you're using a shotgun.

    New fades have generally predictable pathways, if it's not to the front it's from the side. Personally I'd like to see more vertical flight in pub fades, and backwards blinking(My favorite).



    No one ever looks up! Marines are creatures of 2 dimensions.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Raven_XIRaven_XI Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12032Posts: 159Members, Constellation
    Does everyone seriously not remember how easy it was to tear it up as fade in NS? The good players also got ridiculous K/D ratios back then as well....

    As for the current fade, I think there will be a lot more tweaking with health/armour for all aliens when the FPS gets improved and everyones aim gets better. But, I also thought of the idea that if a fade hits a marine while blinking, it will automatically be forced out of it. That way it is possible for marines to (like they did in NS) block exits in the hope of trapping the fade. It would mean you would have to really be skilled with your movements while blinking.
  • JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Posts: 1,435Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Either remove the invuln during blink, or add a delay between unblinking and being able to attack a marine.
  • GadxGadx Join Date: 2003-03-22 Member: 14788Posts: 128Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    I am sure when they add exo suits into the game, fades will be just fine.

    Even right now fades are somewhat weak against flame throwers and shotguns.
    Rehevkor in game
  • VolccisVolccis Join Date: 2011-12-11 Member: 137452Posts: 32Members
    How to counter fade? -Stick in group.

    Fades may be very strong in 1v1, but against group they will die in seconds unless marines cant aim. In 1v1 its obvious, fade costs 50 PRES and marines shotgun costs 20 PRES and with shotgun you may get the fade if you aim well.

    Against group of fades? -Just dont miss every shotgun bullet and be in group and hope your teammates can aim.

    But yeah, the current blink drains too much energy and I like the idea from NS2's design log --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtTS17HHjX4

    "Fade blink changes:
    -There is now an absolute blink time (not more, not less)
    -Direction cannot be changed during blink
    -Only initial blink energy
    -Higher speed

    Intention was to promote precisely aimed blinks and to allow prediction work better for other clients. The difference in reaction time for Marines and Fades is reduced, which should make "invisible" first hit less likely."
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Posts: 8,197Forum Moderators, Constellation mod
    QUOTE (Raven_XI @ Feb 29 2012, 06:59 AM) »
    Does everyone seriously not remember how easy it was to tear it up as fade in NS? The good players also got ridiculous K/D ratios back then as well....

    Yeah, but the cost of one fade was equal to one hive, which doesn't really translate into NS2...
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Posts: 1,136Members
    QUOTE (Volccis @ Feb 29 2012, 04:05 AM) »
    How to counter fade? -Stick in group.

    Fades may be very strong in 1v1, but against group they will die in seconds unless marines cant aim. In 1v1 its obvious, fade costs 50 PRES and marines shotgun costs 20 PRES and with shotgun you may get the fade if you aim well.

    Against group of fades? -Just dont miss every shotgun bullet and be in group and hope your teammates can aim.

    But yeah, the current blink drains too much energy and I like the idea from NS2's design log --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtTS17HHjX4

    "Fade blink changes:
    -There is now an absolute blink time (not more, not less)
    -Direction cannot be changed during blink
    -Only initial blink energy
    -Higher speed

    Intention was to promote precisely aimed blinks and to allow prediction work better for other clients. The difference in reaction time for Marines and Fades is reduced, which should make "invisible" first hit less likely."


    Thats good enough for me!
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Posts: 1,136Members
    QUOTE (Volccis @ Feb 29 2012, 04:05 AM) »
    How to counter fade? -Stick in group.

    Fades may be very strong in 1v1, but against group they will die in seconds unless marines cant aim. In 1v1 its obvious, fade costs 50 PRES and marines shotgun costs 20 PRES and with shotgun you may get the fade if you aim well.

    Against group of fades? -Just dont miss every shotgun bullet and be in group and hope your teammates can aim.

    But yeah, the current blink drains too much energy and I like the idea from NS2's design log --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtTS17HHjX4

    "Fade blink changes:
    -There is now an absolute blink time (not more, not less)
    -Direction cannot be changed during blink
    -Only initial blink energy
    -Higher speed

    Intention was to promote precisely aimed blinks and to allow prediction work better for other clients. The difference in reaction time for Marines and Fades is reduced, which should make "invisible" first hit less likely."


    Thats good enough for me!
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    I think the two fundamental problems are :

    1) Blink is a binary mechanic. Press mouse and you start to move, no acceleration, super fast deceleration when coming out, ... it has really no depth to it and feels kind of bad.

    2) Having god-mod on mouse 2 is also a big problem, it's not very fun for marines to fight an invulnerable creature. Adding delays and energy drain is a poor solution because it make 1) even worse. It's treating the symptoms instead of the cause.
  • NurEinMenschNurEinMensch Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Posts: 1,352Members, Constellation
    There's a fade blink momentum mod that kind of addresses this while also making blink more fun/rewarding.

    Afaik it works by making prolonged blinking more energy expensive, while allowing fades to preserve their blink momentum. This results in shorter blink phases and longer visible phases.

    I think UWE should implement that.
    This is the kind of thing that goes on behind close doors on normal game releases, where they are optimizing it right up until the end. You guys are just getting to play with a version of the game that normally only the developers see.

    --Cory
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,865Members, Squad Five Blue
    QUOTE (Wheeee @ Feb 29 2012, 05:26 AM) »
    i'd rather have blink have a slightly longer acceleration phase than have fades be vulnerable during blink.

    +1 to momentum after blink
    And increase adrenaline drain by alot.
    Then the invulnerability isn't as big of a deal anymore.

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
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