Hit reg worse?

CodeineCodeine Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Posts: 515Members
hit reg is so bad right now...
since playing alot of gorrilla about 90hrs since its come out. 197 has the worst hit reg ive ever experienced. (apart from way earlier builds)

skulks taking 3 sg shots to die
skulks taking 30 LMG shots to die (and still not dying)
5 bites on a marine (not being spammed of health packs)
Blood pouring out of your targets = 0 dmg
Killing skulks when your not even aiming at them

And the movement hit boxes/animations might have an effect on this? reason i say this is because i questioned a skulk that ran straight at me and didnt take my 30 bullets i shot at him, he said he was wall jumping. On my screen it didnt look like he was wall jumping at all....

I would like UWE to look at this seriously because right now, Its ruining the experience for me and probably alot of other people.


This is from observing other players discussing the hit reg from one of the servers i was in. http://i.imgur.com/Wal15.png

This is all played on 30 tick servers.
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Comments

  • SkieSkie Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Posts: 656Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Ping is definitely a factor. Skulks on US servers, where I have high ping, suck way more rifle bullets than on EU servers. What I keep doing is that I shoot enough bullets into a skulk that should kill it, and reload instinctively, but then the bugger isn't dead after all.
    If we see a hit on client-side, it should also register server side. :/
  • MkilbrideMkilbride Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69952Posts: 428Members
    I find the hit registration to be much better than any previous build. Before, I rarely got kills, now I'm usually at the top of the board.

    Server performance is quite bad though, 30 tick servers, like the Inversion ones, hit below 13 Tick rate at times, and 30% choke.
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  • CodeineCodeine Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Posts: 515Members
    Im usually at the top of the board aswell, but even more so with 197 i have that "WTF THATS BS" moment, and its all because of the hit reg.

    Its so frustrating.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Posts: 2,335Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Community Dev Team
    We really need videos. Or easy steps to reproduce the problem.
    From my experience the hitreg is better than most games i played. 2 bugs where fixed for the latest build thanks to a video. So if you can make one, that would surely help.
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  • CodeineCodeine Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Posts: 515Members
    edited February 2012
    you dont need a video.

    How come i've killed skulks by shooting ahead of them? what causes this?

    I was shocked to see my pull the trigger estimating a skulk to be but i missed and over shot, but he died.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Posts: 2,335Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Community Dev Team
    Again, your claim does not match the feeling of most people. it might be server specific whatever. I don't say your wrong, what i say is that for the last patch a video was posted showing a clear hitreg prediction error, and then it was fixed. As long as such a clear piece of evidence does not exist, its going to be hard to fix it.
    Ollj: "ns_napo, the first good custom map ever" ns_napo
  • LuKeLuKe Join Date: 2011-11-05 Member: 131316Posts: 16Members
    Yeah, hit reg and the hit boxes are still pretty bad for me as well and I haven't seen or felt a difference between 196 and 197.
  • CodeineCodeine Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Posts: 515Members
    edited February 2012
    Alright i got a video, first game i played to get footage, two different skulks survived point blank shotgun hit. Give me a sec, im not very experienced with videos, but i will slow it and upload it.

    30 tick server, first 2 mins of the game. 5v4 or something low.

    Sorry about quality, it didn't look like that when i uploaded it in 720p -.- But its enough, you can see the hits. If you want to slow it down be my guest i watched it as slow as MPC would go, those hits connected, the first one on the skulk was a 100% hit but did no damage. The second one i couldn't confirm 100% as the frame had moved too much in between, but i reckon it was.

    This happens ALL the time since 197. For some reason.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucY0qoAnhz8

    I should have mentioned, the first skulk said i missed my first shot. In the footage i can vouch that i didnt miss.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Posts: 2,335Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Community Dev Team
    its hard to tell by that video quality if the first hit was not just a partial hit that left the skulk with very few HP and then you killed him with the second hit. the quality is so bad i can't even see if there was a hit indicator or not :( (i can see the blood though)
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  • CodeineCodeine Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Posts: 515Members
    QUOTE (Asraniel @ Feb 20 2012, 12:20 PM) »
    its hard to tell by that video quality if the first hit was not just a partial hit that left the skulk with very few HP and then you killed him with the second hit. the quality is so bad i can't even see if there was a hit indicator or not :( (i can see the blood though)


    Yes i know its hard to see, The fact still remains that he told me that the shot missed. When it didnt.
  • WilsonWilson Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72867Posts: 1,397Members
    QUOTE (Asraniel @ Feb 20 2012, 08:58 AM) »
    From my experience the hitreg is better than most games i played.


    Lol, good one. Hit reg is terrible.
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  • salorsalor Join Date: 2004-02-21 Member: 26771Posts: 154Members
    So, just to be sure. Should it take more then 1 point blank shotgun blast to the face of a skulk to kill it?...because i've seen a few vids (including the one posted above), where 2+ shotty to the face dosent even kill a skulk.

    Note: this is assuming 0 armour 1 hive skulk....
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  • googlegoogle Join Date: 2012-02-10 Member: 144695Posts: 9Members
    i can attest to this. and yes it seems to vary between servers, and with ping (of course it does). but something certainly changed from 196. melee is better than 195 certainly, but most servers seem unplayable to me. i thought i was hallucinating at first, removed bloom/effects/etc, got framerate back up. tried every server from here to timbucktu.

    seems almost that the lower my ping the worse it is. 33 ping against someone with a 250 ping, not chance. 100 ping against a 150 pings, better. even less problem on an overseas server. even had variance between two 33 ping servers. so as far as repeatability goes... i have no idea how to even localize it let alone what is causing it. i also had the 'shoot me on the floor' while i was on the ceiling playing with a buddy. something changed... for the worse. could just be server performance, but seems unlikely as it happens on a local server box (8 core, real time / high priority tested).


    shrug
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Posts: 1,903Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I call lag compensation. You know this situation, where you sit as skulk or lerk on a dark ceiling, observing marines who are miles away. And as soon as they shoot at you, you are dead. I think, thats because of the lag compensation. The marine starts to fire at you. But you notice the incoming bullets only 1 second later. So he needs 2s to kill you, but you get only one second to react, because you are not informed in time, that he shoots you.

    That would explain the problems in hammering the cause of the hit reg problem out.
  • ArgathorArgathor Join Date: 2011-07-18 Member: 110942Posts: 682Members, Squad Five Blue
    QUOTE (Asraniel @ Feb 20 2012, 09:09 AM) »
    Again, your claim does not match the feeling of most people.

    Statements like this from playtesters of all people are really not helpful. I understand NS2 is important to you, that you think it is awesome and you want to protect it. However, you also need to be realistic. It is quite clear that the hitreg (for whatever reason it exists) is a serious issue in NS2 right now, something the majority of the competitive community are aware of. For many people the overall performance of the client is so bad that it is difficult to notice the hitreg problem.

    So lets be clear, there are serious issues with hitreg in NS2 right now. Whether caused by animation problems, server choke, bad server/client performance, prediction, etc. Hopefully it will be worked out as time passes and specific issues are identified.
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  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Posts: 1,281Members
    QUOTE (Mkilbride @ Feb 20 2012, 09:00 AM) »
    I find the hit registration to be much better than any previous build.

    Same here, also it can be very hard to hit anything if your ping explode (because of less full EU servers :( )
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  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    QUOTE
    So lets be clear, there are serious issues with hitreg in NS2 right now.


    We still need to have a bit more evidences. That I would like to see is video of someone shooting more than 10 bullets on a skulk without killing him. I tried to do it myself but I didn't managed. Shotgun is a bit tricky because of the spread. Pistol would be the best in fact.
  • ArgathorArgathor Join Date: 2011-07-18 Member: 110942Posts: 682Members, Squad Five Blue
    QUOTE (Yuuki @ Feb 20 2012, 03:04 PM) »
    We still need to have a bit more evidences. That I would like to see is video of someone shooting more than 10 bullets on a skulk without killing him. I tried to do it myself but I didn't managed. Shotgun is a bit tricky because of the spread. Pistol would be the best in fact.

    Fair enough, I will try to start recording more public play and see what I can come up with!
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  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Posts: 2,335Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Community Dev Team
    edited February 2012
    QUOTE (Argathor @ Feb 20 2012, 03:01 PM) »
    Statements like this from playtesters of all people are really not helpful. I understand NS2 is important to you, that you think it is awesome and you want to protect it. However, you also need to be realistic. It is quite clear that the hitreg (for whatever reason it exists) is a serious issue in NS2 right now, something the majority of the competitive community are aware of. For many people the overall performance of the client is so bad that it is difficult to notice the hitreg problem.


    Well, for me its not clear. Beeing a playtester has nothing to do with it. If there is a problem its in very specific circumstances, but in general hitreg really is good.
    Its not like something we never test, but during any recent test no obvious problem could be observed. Also if you read the comments in the forum, specially for the newest builds, many people say that hitreg is good/became better.
    Anyway, you probably missunderstood me. I'm not protecting anything here, i want to improve the game. Its just that saying "its bad" is not going to solve anything. What is needed is a video, or even better, an easy way to reproduce a situation where hitreg is wrong. The video that was posted is really not usable for that, i might be blind, but i can't tell if 100% of the bullets hit, or 50% or whatever. i can't even see if there was a hit indicator (the red cross). If there was no hit indicator, then this would be a good start to identify the bug. Who knowns what it is? Perhaps its related to wallwalking, perhaps to the change from wallwalking to normal, perhaps its ping..

    This is a beta test, we are here to test and correct the problems.

    Somebody mentioned "several videos" of skulks needing many shotgun shots. Where can they be found? only build 197 please, there was a bug corrected in skulk hitreg (identified by a video in this forum).
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • CodeineCodeine Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Posts: 515Members
    edited February 2012
    QUOTE (Yuuki @ Feb 20 2012, 04:04 PM) »
    We still need to have a bit more evidences. That I would like to see is video of someone shooting more than 10 bullets on a skulk without killing him. I tried to do it myself but I didn't managed. Shotgun is a bit tricky because of the spread. Pistol would be the best in fact.


    shooting a skulk at point blank range with sg and for the player to say that the shot had missed completely even though there was blood splatter captured on video is not enough evidence?

    wow

    And its not just me http://i.imgur.com/Wal15.png
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Posts: 1,903Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Evidence! You are not on court here. Its not the problem, that they don't believe you. They need evidence to locate the error. And this chat is not very helpful.
  • ArgathorArgathor Join Date: 2011-07-18 Member: 110942Posts: 682Members, Squad Five Blue
    QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Feb 20 2012, 03:32 PM) »
    Evidence! You are not on court here. Its not the problem, that they don't believe you. They need evidence to locate the error. And this chat is not very helpful.

    Likewise pretending there is not a problem is not helpful either. Sometimes technical things require the developers to investigate themselves, like the input lag issue that was eventually solved.
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  • autograderautograder Join Date: 2011-06-24 Member: 106181Posts: 187Members
    QUOTE (Codeine @ Feb 20 2012, 02:52 AM) »
    since playing alot of gorrilla about 90hrs since its come out. 197 has the worst hit reg ive ever experienced. (apart from way earlier builds)

    skulks taking 3 sg shots to die
    skulks taking 30 LMG shots to die (and still not dying)
    5 bites on a marine (not being spammed of health packs)
    Blood pouring out of your targets = 0 dmg
    Killing skulks when your not even aiming at them

    And the movement hit boxes/animations might have an effect on this? reason i say this is because i questioned a skulk that ran straight at me and didnt take my 30 bullets i shot at him, he said he was wall jumping. On my screen it didnt look like he was wall jumping at all....

    I would like UWE to look at this seriously because right now, Its ruining the experience for me and probably alot of other people.


    This is from observing other players discussing the hit reg from one of the servers i was in. http://i.imgur.com/Wal15.png

    This is all played on 30 tick servers.


    Just use a shotgun, 1 hits everything.
  • BonesXBonesX Join Date: 2007-02-04 Member: 59883Posts: 49Members, Constellation
    Calm down people. nobody in this thread is saying the hit reg is bad or that its good. What was said was that the developers need the video to figure out what is wrong. It's not that they want proof that something is wrong with the hit reg but that they want to figure out what exactly your seeing not work right. Otherwise they have a huge pile of code to dig through and no pointers as to where to look.

    Hey you, there is something wrong with your house, go fix it! OK, so is it electrical, water pipes, dishes, laundry, AC/Heat? All they are saying is that they need a vid to point them in the right direction. :)
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  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    QUOTE
    shooting a skulk at point blank range with sg and for the player to say that the shot had missed completely even though there was blood splatter captured on video is not enough evidence?


    Which one are you talking of (seconds in the video) ? I'm not sure I'm getting it right.

    Also the shotgun fire 10 bullets randomly with a 20 degree cone of fire, so at a given distance it's almost impossible that all of them hit. That's why shotgun evidence is a bit hard to interpret, pistol would be much better.
  • FloodinatorFloodinator [HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Posts: 1,301Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    But only 5 shells need to hit to kill a skulk with no cara.
    So if a skulk is 3m away atleast 7 will hit most of the time.
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  • ArkantiArkanti pub baddie Join Date: 2011-07-22 Member: 111781Posts: 694Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 21 2012, 03:35 AM) »
    But only 5 shells need to hit to kill a skulk with no cara.
    So if a skulk is 3m away atleast 7 will hit most of the time.


    Unless you weren't aiming directly at them.


    I've had this issue too at times, most noticeably when a skulk is running directly at me and I hit them flat in the face with a shotgun blast just as they are upon me, however I die and the skulk reports no damage.
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  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    QUOTE
    So if a skulk is 3m away atleast 7 will hit most of the time.


    Yes, but sometimes none will hit. How often is hard to say. We did the graph for the mean number of hits in function of the distance in the lerk spikes thread but we didn't computed the variance.

    I wonder if the fact that the bullets shoot from the eyes might be a problem at close range.

    Anyway the best way to test all this is to start a server and to enable trace (it displays hits).
  • SiGGiSiGGi Join Date: 2005-02-09 Member: 40463Posts: 17Members, Constellation
    I made some movies the last time and I have to say I cant find any problems with the hitreg if a skulk/fade walk/run/jumb. I looked some of the recorded games frame by frame and everytime I thought the hitreg is bad, it was just my fault, cause i didnt hit him.... But there are some bugs if a skulk/fade is behind/near a building and standing still...

    I will post some clippings with lmg/sg... Dont know why, but for me seems the hitreg ok...


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUAWSFUq6n0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DIRwu6Pi5E
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9AHqHU7WeQ
  • fmponefmpone Join Date: 2011-07-05 Member: 108086Posts: 928Members, Squad Five Blue
    Keep in mind a repro video is going to most likely need to be in a full or busy server to capture the lag that usually accompanies most reports.
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