B195 Weapon and Attack Quirks

SkieSkie Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Posts: 656Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
edited February 2012 in NS2 General Discussion
List of all bugs/features in attacks atm
Hello.

After playing NS2 a lot, you start noticing some glitches/bugs/quirks/features in the attacks of almost all weapons. In this thread I'm going to list all I've come across so far. Some of them are clearly bugs, but some of them are 'feature material', ie stuff that could make the pros stand out from the normal folk by mastering these techniques.

Here's a video to go along with the text to showcase (almost) each quirk.



Rifle
This weapon has three quirks.
1) Double tapping and holding fire causes firing sound to disappear. This works every time. Most likely a bug.
2) Melee swing speed is faster if you are moving while holding the melee attack button. Most likely a bug, I don't like it as an idea feature.
3) (not in video) The weapon doesn't shoot a bullet if you click attack really shortly (under 2ms). It's really hard to reproduce when recording with fraps so it's not in the video.

Pistol
This weapon fires faster in both modes if you are jumping.
1) The primary attack mode has unrestricted firing speed when you are mid-air. It has a potential DPS increase of +500%. It is silly and should be either slowed down or removed completely. It could be a bit faster, but not as fast as now.
2) The secondary attack speed is about double faster when jumping. It has a DPS increase of 50-100%. I like this, because if you can time your jumps you can take a few extra fast shots which are really hard to land, and when you fall back to the ground you are slower at firing again unless you time your jump right.
3) (Already reported and fixed? Not in video.) If you change firing modes after jumping, pistol gets stuck.

Shotgun
The shotgun fires faster if you are both moving and clicking every time right before the animation ends. Some of the animation is bypassed this way. It has a DPS increase of about 20-30% which is in reasonable limits. This is feature candidate material right here, although the 'moving' bit could be removed.

Axe
The axe swings a bit faster if you click each time right before the second hit animation comes to the end. This has a DPS increase of about 20%. This is also feature candidate material, I think it's a nice touch the weapon could have.

Gorge Spit
The gorge spit is really buggy at the moment.
1) If you click each time instead of holding fire, it shoots a bit faster. I like this.
2) Unfortunately the projectiles sometimes collide into eachother if you fire too fast and disappear right in front of you.
3) If you click really shortly (under 3ms per click) then the projectiles sometimes doesn't fly at all.
4) If you click really rapidly, then sometimes you get two projectiles instead of one.

Gorge Bile
Gorge bilebomb is also buggy.
1) If you click really shortly, then it doesn't always create a projectile.
2) If you jump and click twice really fast, it sometimes creates two projectiles instead of one.

Gorge Healspray (not in video)
Sometimes the gorge healspray is activated twice in a row when you tap the secondary attack rapidly.

Skulk
The skulk bite doesn't always make a sound when you click really shortly (under 3ms per click). This is definitely a bug and should be removed.

Fade
1) The fade swing doesn't always make a sound when you click really shortly (under 3ms per click). This is definitely a bug and should be removed.
2) The fade secondary attack sometimes plays the sound twice when you click attack rapidly. Only one hit registers though. A bug.

Lerk
The lerk spike doesn't always make a sound when you click really shortly (under 3ms per click). This is definitely a bug and should be removed.


The onos attacks and flamethrower seem to be working okay, so I don't really have any comments on those. Grenade launcher grenades are a bit sluggish at times, and their flying speed is slow in my opinion, but those aren't really quirks that stand out.

Comments?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • JayArcJayArc Join Date: 2011-06-03 Member: 102391Posts: 36Members
    edited February 2012
    Great post! Very concise video. Im interested in where Unknown Worlds stands with these (Feature or Bug)...Mainly speed shooting, while running and jumping).

    I will say, that i don't think "Pro's" should depend bugs to "stand out" from new players. Thats just sad...
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    When I did the fade mod I also noticed that some animations where adding additional delays, like this one :

    CODE
    function Blink:OnUpdateAnimationInput(modelMixin)
        if self:GetIsBlinking() then
            modelMixin:SetAnimationInput("move", "blink")
        end    
    end


    I don't know if it's still the case.

    Also is the big delay to bite after parasite still there ?
  • SkieSkie Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Posts: 656Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (Yuuki @ Feb 15 2012, 02:10 PM) »
    Also is the big delay to bite after parasite still there ?

    Seems like that's fixed.
  • ArgathorArgathor Join Date: 2011-07-18 Member: 110942Posts: 682Members, Squad Five Blue
    Very well explained post and clear video, good job. I am interested in the status of each of these as bugs/features too.
    Arga | ns2hub.com
    "Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago."
  • WilsonWilson Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72867Posts: 1,397Members
    Nice video. I think they are all bugs. Only one I would perhaps leave in is the faster axe attack speed when clicking rather than holding.
    In-game name: Wilson

    My Crosshair Pack: LINK
  • arualarual Join Date: 2005-03-12 Member: 44989Posts: 39Members
    Some of the sound/graphics issues could just be client side. It would be interesting to see if the double Gorge spit is actually two different projectiles registered by the server.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 11,446Forum Admins, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue mod
    edited February 2012
    When I'm not sure or confident enough with just writing up a text only bug report, I usually add a video with commentary like this. These are highly appreciated by the devs as it shows the repro steps and the bug in action so to speak. So good on ya Skie!

    I knew there were some issues with weapons, but never expected almost every weapon to have these issues! I'm guessing the clicking instead of holding the button is a general issue with the way the mouse inputs are handled (animation speed and sound issues). Going over your list, the following bugs are being worked on right now or reported (needs acceptance still)


    Gorge Bile
    Gorge bilebomb is also buggy.
    1) If you click really shortly, then it doesn't always create a projectile. (reported)
    2) If you jump and click twice really fast, it sometimes creates two projectiles instead of one. (being worked on right now)

    issue 2 also does double damage (both bilebombs)


    I guess the clickNhold vs clicking could be reported as one, We'll be sure to spam this thread to UWE :P
    Post edited by Unknown User on

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  • DghelneshiDghelneshi Aims to surpass Fana in post edits. Join Date: 2011-11-01 Member: 130634Posts: 941Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    Very nice findings Skie!

    QUOTE (JayArc)
    I will say, that i don't think "Pro's" should depend bugs to "stand out" from new players. Thats just sad...

    That depends on your definition of "bug". Afaik, almost all movement-related features like bunnyhopping in GoldSrc, strafe jumping in Quake or surfing in Tribes were bugs originally, but didn't get fixed because they added a lot of depth to the game.
    Some of the things are just stupid (like faster shooting when moving) and add no depth at all, but actually having to click each time instead of just holding the button does add something. In some games, weapons like shotguns act like the NS pistol anyway, so they don't shoot automatically when you hold your button down.
  • KoruyoKoruyo Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Posts: 1,679Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2012
    Important thing i have to add to this thread.
    http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1903277

    QUOTE
    - The pistol, shotgun, axe (maybe more weapons - didnt test aliens) have a fire delay after you jump and click/shoot at the wrong time... ~0.5-1s. (if you just make a quick click and release it doesnt even shoot/swing at this moment => you either need to press and hold until it shoots or click spam until it shoots. The axe has an additional feature - if you time it right it freezes the animation until you release the mousebutton, also release only resets it so you have to click again to swing)


    Will upload a video later.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • sheena_yanaisheena_yanai Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11426Posts: 4,469Members
    there is a glitch that makes any alien weapon get stuck under a condition i dont know how to recreate , its like your jaw is stuck open and wont react to any mouse button, weapon switch wont do anything, but you can fix it by selecting different upgrades and re-egg.
    it happend twice for me as gorge, when i could not use my healspray or any other weapon anymore, and once as skulk
  • SkieSkie Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Posts: 656Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (Koruyo @ Feb 15 2012, 09:34 PM) »
    Important thing i have to add to this thread.
    http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1903277
    Will upload a video later.

    I thought this was intentional?
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    edited February 2012
    Another one, hold sprint and try to shoot with the pistol, doesn't work, although it's working with other weapons.

    My guess is that most of theses bugs are linked to animation, I can't see another reason why the firing rate would change with jump or walk.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Posts: 1,369Members
    Possibly a design quirk:
    Onos' smash does not hit MACs, but gorges' bile bombs do. Bile bombs don't hit players, and smash doesn't hit players. Onos' gore hits MACs.

    Are MACs buildings or players? Why shouldn't the onos be able to smash them?
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,868Members, Squad Five Blue
    Thank you for this thread.

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • SkymanderXSkymanderX Green Marine - The Few, The Proud, The Green. Join Date: 2011-07-29 Member: 113006Posts: 430Members
    QUOTE (swalk @ Feb 15 2012, 10:31 PM) »
    Thank you for this thread.

    Yup good to see.
    image
  • DustehDusteh Join Date: 2011-07-25 Member: 112142Posts: 168Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    GJ Skie, hope these get addressed soon.
  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Posts: 1,767Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Oh, and the shotgun not firing or the shot being delayed if you click as you land (due to landing animation)
    Gorge bilebomb forever.
  • SkieSkie Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Posts: 656Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (elodea @ Feb 16 2012, 11:12 AM) »
    Oh, and the shotgun not firing or the shot being delayed if you click as you land (due to landing animation)

    Same happens with the pistol. I think this was added intentionally to make marines stop spamming jump. You can still spam jump but you need to time your jumps correctly with the shooting.
  • KoruyoKoruyo Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Posts: 1,679Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2012
    How is it intentionally if it only happens on 3 weapons?
    And on the axe its not only delaying the swing - it wont swing until you release the leftmouse button and click again.
    Doesnt happen on the riflebutt, flamethrower, lmg or gl.


    (also if you reload the shotgun while jumping(and its not the last bullet) you can bypass the delay)
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • reavenreaven Join Date: 2011-09-30 Member: 124664Posts: 23Members
    One thing that happens to me is that if you click lmb and rmb with the pistol at the same time it locks sometimes, and you cant shoot or change firemode.
  • DustehDusteh Join Date: 2011-07-25 Member: 112142Posts: 168Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Any chance of a reply from UWE as to whether they are looking into these?
  • arualarual Join Date: 2005-03-12 Member: 44989Posts: 39Members
    edited February 2012
    I would assume they are aware of the thread - looking into the issues to the extent of fixing them may take a bit longer depending on their workload.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • DghelneshiDghelneshi Aims to surpass Fana in post edits. Join Date: 2011-11-01 Member: 130634Posts: 941Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2012
    I don't know how it works in other games, but shouldn't the animation system and the shooting mechanisms be almost completely independent? The more different things depend on each other, the more severe a single bug is, since it will propagate through all the systems and break everything. Animation bugs are relatively common in games, so they shouldn't affect anything else.
    Or is my assumption false and these are not animation system bugs?
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • TemphageTemphage Join Date: 2009-10-28 Member: 69158Posts: 1,317Members
    edited February 2012
    The fastest nerves in your body generally clock in at around 100 meters per second. Roughly speaking, your hand is just under a meter away from your brain by way of nerves. This means that the fastest your brain could possibly tell your finger to move is around 10ms.

    So I find it interesting that you're concerned about - or have even discovered - that there's bugs in the game that exist when you refire at rates three times FASTER than any human alive could even theoretically perform the actions in question.






    lol script kiddies. Some things about NS will never change, it seems.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • DghelneshiDghelneshi Aims to surpass Fana in post edits. Join Date: 2011-11-01 Member: 130634Posts: 941Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    You can notice most of these things within normal play without having a scriptable mouse. And having a scriptable mouse giving you big advantages is a huge issue.
  • JowJow Join Date: 2011-06-23 Member: 106032Posts: 81Members
    Sprint and spam click or whatever it is is pretty stupid.
  • SkieSkie Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Posts: 656Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (Temphage @ Feb 19 2012, 09:54 PM) »
    The fastest nerves in your body generally clock in at around 100 meters per second. Roughly speaking, your hand is just under a meter away from your brain by way of nerves. This means that the fastest your brain could possibly tell your finger to move is around 10ms.

    So I find it interesting that you're concerned about - or have even discovered - that there's bugs in the game that exist when you refire at rates three times FASTER than any human alive could even theoretically perform the actions in question.

    lol script kiddies. Some things about NS will never change, it seems.

    If you use mouse wheel for shooting, depending on the mouse, it sometimes rolls so fast from one position to another that it most of the time registers for a shorter time than a normal click on the mouse1 button. It's an almost instantaneous pulse signal instead of a long one.
    Also depending on the mouse, you can make the mouse1 button vibrate to 'ON' state so shortly intentionally, by whacking a small part of the button with your finger, that it only signals for a 1-3ms or so.
    I guess it's only natural for me to seek out things like these with the billion years of FPS experience that I have.
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Posts: 1,369Members
    I like when people use medical trivia they saw on Jeopardy to argue about video games. The human eye can't see above 30 fps, right guys?
  • ArgathorArgathor Join Date: 2011-07-18 Member: 110942Posts: 682Members, Squad Five Blue
    QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Feb 20 2012, 07:45 AM) »
    I like when people use medical trivia they saw on Jeopardy to argue about video games. The human eye can't see above 30 fps, right guys?

    Oh god, now you have done it... :-/
    Arga | ns2hub.com
    "Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago."
  • NurEinMenschNurEinMensch Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Posts: 1,352Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (Temphage @ Feb 19 2012, 09:54 PM) »
    The fastest nerves in your body generally clock in at around 100 meters per second. Roughly speaking, your hand is just under a meter away from your brain by way of nerves. This means that the fastest your brain could possibly tell your finger to move is around 10ms.

    So I find it interesting that you're concerned about - or have even discovered - that there's bugs in the game that exist when you refire at rates three times FASTER than any human alive could even theoretically perform the actions in question.






    lol script kiddies. Some things about NS will never change, it seems.


    That's missing the point. We're talking about the amount of time between the "press" and the "release" signal, for which it is irrelevant how long they travel.
    This is the kind of thing that goes on behind close doors on normal game releases, where they are optimizing it right up until the end. You guys are just getting to play with a version of the game that normally only the developers see.

    --Cory
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