Alien "lock on" ability

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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,892Members, Squad Five Blue
    QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 4 2011, 09:20 PM) »
    Which like I said, is fine, what is not fine is that aliens HAVE to fight in melee, which is the exact thing marines fight to AVOID, and they use exactly the same mechanics.

    The whole reason marine have guns and use them at range is because fighting an alien up close is chaotic and unpredictable, but aliens have to fight using the same mouse, keyboard, aiming and timing mechanics as a marine with a shotgun does. Aliens should be BETTER in melee than marines, they should be well suited by their very nature to fighting in melee, not forced to perform the same chaotic, hard to follow, confusing feats of aiming that marines do when forced to fight in melee.

    As it stands, marines get a whole game element based around not fighting in melee, their entire play is based around not fighting in melee because it's hard, then if that fails, they fight in melee.

    Aliens, they don't get the first bit, they have to go straight to what is for marines, a last ditch effort to avoid dying.

    That ISN'T good, that makes fighting far harder for basic aliens than it is for marines. Unless you plan to give all the aliens fade-like HP and damage, you need to give them some advantage when actually fighting in melee, speed isn't going to help, speed just makes it harder still to track targets, easier to overshoot, harder to control. The problem is not getting close, that mechanic can be changed as neccesary, there's lots of stuff you can do to help aliens get close, the problem is that once they are close, they have to fight against bad controls and situational awareness to do anything.

    It is fine as is.
    Why would you want to lower the skill so much for aliens?
    If you had autoaim like you suggest, everyone would land every bite.
    There would be almost no difference in skill as soon as you get close as an alien.
    No need to lower the skill cieling further from ns1, we need to go the other way.
    You simply just need to learn and play, it is quite possible getting some massive streaks with the skulk.
    For example; I saw Wilson the other day go to something about 32-1 or something as skulk only.
    Don't you go telling me he needs autoaim as well. Or you for that sake.

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    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • ale'ale' Join Date: 2011-08-06 Member: 114689Posts: 63Members
    The only buff for situational awareness skulks need is adjustable FOV. People have fairly large screens nowadays which allows you to have some peripheral vision. Auto aim wouldn't only take the skill from playing skulks, but is also unnecessary. Skulks are doing fine in close combat. You are at an advantage against marines armed with a rifle, because you only need to aim in the general direction unlike with a gun, but it's possible to lose as well. A skilled marine has a chance in close combat despite the advantage the skulk has, which is as it should be. If there was auto aim, you'd only need to press w and bite as a skulk (after you get close) and you'd pretty much win every melee.
  • IronHorseIronHorse CDT Technical Support & QA Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 6,610Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Community Dev Team, Pistachionauts admin
    QUOTE (maD maX @ Nov 30 2011, 01:31 PM) »
    You want to make this a reasonable idea, have lock on simply change the target to a different color, say there are 3 rines coming down the hallway, you dont want to bite each one once and have 3 shooting at you, you want to bite 1 of them 3 times and have only 2 shooting at you and increase your chances of getting them all by 33%.


    i have always thought the parasite designation reward is not on par with the removing of a surprise attack / letting the rine know you're near. perhaps if the parasited icon turned into a glowing, hazy "alien vision" effect of just that rine, perhaps it would severely help to keep him in view during the feet chomping timeframe. (at the same time preventing the over abuse of alien vision as a crutch and allowing the artist's work to be seen)

    my suggestion: have a minimum distance increase between feet of marines and an attacking skulk unit only - even while jumping. currently it often feels as if those strafing, jumping feet only ever get confusing because i am allowed to be too close to them and end up behind etc etc. not saying i cant wreck 2 rines at a time as a skulk - just agreeing that it does in fact get chaotic going after those feet (which is 70% of all skulk / rine encounters) and my melee experience boils down to the "who can snap their mouse/have better FPS to find the location of the other player the fastest" game. which seems to be an odd way of determining the winner / skillset.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
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  • l3lessedl3lessed Join Date: 2010-06-07 Member: 71977Posts: 374Members
    edited December 2011
    The above post gave me an idea to make parasite more useful ability. Combine the original lock on idea with parasite.

    So you parasite a marine before engaging him. Now that he is parasited, you can use a very tame lock on ability to keep track of the parasited marine. I find this a fair trade off for revealing your position by parasiting. With medpacks removing parasites, it would also keep it balanced. Once parasited any alien can use the lock on ability too giving good synergy between skulks and their team. It also insures the continued usefulness of skulks throughout a whole game.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Posts: 1,566Members
    edited December 2011
    ^ What l3lessed said, I'd like that a lot.

    Although, what of Hive Sight from infestation?

    Edit: Nvm saw edit.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (l3lessed @ Dec 4 2011, 10:48 PM) »
    The above post gave me an idea to make parasite more useful ability. Combine the original lock on idea with parasite.

    So you parasite a marine before engaging him. Now that he is parasited, you can use a very tame lock on ability to keep track of the parasited marine. I find this a fair trade off for revealing your position by parasiting. With medpacks removing parasites, it would also keep it balanced. Once parasited any alien can use the lock on ability too giving good synergy between skulks and their team. It also insures the continued usefulness of skulks throughout a whole game.


    I'd be fine with that rather than having a key for it, it is mostly the skulk that has the problem, the fade has other benefits to offset it, though I'm not averse to other aliens using it as part of a teamwork thing. Would give more use to parasite as well which is currently a little useless what with infestation doing the same thing.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • CaCaCaCa Join Date: 2003-06-12 Member: 17319Posts: 324Members
    +1.000.000 to l3lessed´s post.

    This should be.

    (I´d say parasite would only give skulks lock-on... for the rest, just hive-sight as always)

  • DeadzoneDeadzone Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17911Posts: 934Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    TL:DR for the thread, but

    If you can hit with a shotgun, you can hit with a bite. Practice with it once it performs a little better.

    Giving any kind of auto-aim to aliens would make their melee nature pointless. Marines are designed to have a disadvantage at close range already, they don't need to get penalized further.

    Plus, aliens are winning the majority of games yet, they don't need a boost. :P
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  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    QUOTE (Deadzone @ Dec 5 2011, 01:54 AM) »
    If you can hit with a shotgun, you can hit with a bite. Practice with it once it performs a little better.


    That's the problem, the shotgun does more damage, the marine has more health, and he can also shoot the skulk once or twice before it gets into range.

    QUOTE (Deadzone @ Dec 5 2011, 01:54 AM) »
    Giving any kind of auto-aim to aliens would make their melee nature pointless. Marines are designed to have a disadvantage at close range already, they don't need to get penalized further.


    Except they don't have a disadvantage against skulks, as you said yourself it's no harder to hit with a shotgun than it is with a bite, and the shotgun is a better melee weapon than the bite.

    QUOTE (Deadzone @ Dec 5 2011, 01:54 AM) »
    Plus, aliens are winning the majority of games yet, they don't need a boost. :P


    Game balance != player and class balance. Aliens win because marines tend to turtle and once they get hive 2 they get a massive boost from fades, in the early game they lose horribly if they try to fight directly and instead win by ignoring marines and focussing on RTs and suchlike. Early aliens definitely need a boost, and late marines need better ways to counter fades, the marines are likely to get buffs in the form of the exo and JP which would help negate the dominance of fades, but early game aliens don't look like they'll be getting much at all to make them competitive against marines. They need an innate, from the very start, can't be removed by hive loss ability that makes skulks not useless.
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Posts: 1,566Members
    How about instead of the FOV shifting on its own, add some type of client-side only pheromone trail on the parasited Marine that only the Skulk player can see? It would temporarily brighten up the ground the Marine walked over, allowing the Skulk to quickly identify the Marine's current direction of movement?
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  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Dec 5 2011, 03:21 AM) »
    How about instead of the FOV shifting on its own, add some type of client-side only pheromone trail on the parasited Marine that only the Skulk player can see? It would temporarily brighten up the ground the Marine walked over, allowing the Skulk to quickly identify the Marine's current direction of movement?


    The problem I have with that sort of visual indicator, as well as the 'make locked marines turn bright orange' suggestion is that it doesn't really solve the problem.

    The time it takes to interpret the visual cues, or find them and follow them, is roughly the same as it takes to spin around really fast and find the marine with your eyes.

    Both of those are too long and don't solve the actual problem, because you find them again in a second or two, take a bite, and you've lost them again. The repeated losing of the target is what I find annoying.

    It's not the difficulty of looking for the target as much as the fact that you spend more time doing that than you do actually attacking, you spend most of your time disoriented and trying to figure out where the enemy went, hence the direct intervention to keep the enemy on screen at all times.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • RegnarebRegnareb Join Date: 2007-08-26 Member: 62008Posts: 418Members, NS2 Playtester
    edited December 2011
    I don't really see the problem. Well I can see it but it is the same problem in every games.
    If you have a sniper and are 500m away from your enemy, if you don't have the skill to follow him and calculate the speed of the bullet, you will have some trouble to kill your enemy, but you can learn it with a little practice.

    Well with the development of FPS games those years, a lot of things has been added to the players to help them, but is this the right solution? I don't think so. All the games seems the same now, very slow and pressthebuttonitwilldoitforyouautomatically.
    No, NS is more than that, it is an interesting game, and please don't ruin it with some things we can see in all recent games for people who don't want to take time to learn how to do anything.




    By the way, there was absolutely no problem to track your enemy in NS1, and I believe there will be absolutely no problem to land bites in NS2 when I will (or we will) have better performance, and I hope a better FOV.
    You can look to that action in that video (there is one other at 5:15), it was really easy to do that in NS1, and still doable in NS2, and I don't see why it couldn't be possible : it's the basics of the FPS and nothing is different in NS2, move, aim, move, and shoot, and move, etc..
    After, everyone has more or less easiness or faculties to execute these tasks and compute them rapidly or not, but no one is equal and that take some practice too.
    The only thing that change in NS2, is that you are really close to the ground so it seems fastest, and that other games who go out today are really really slow, so you have to get used to that.



    But in NO WAY the game should have an auto aim for that, it's the basics of FPS, if we do so, in 10 years the first to see the other guy will activate the autoaim (who will have less dispersion if you pay 10$ per week) and the game will shoot automatically on the enemy without even have to aim, ever.
    Oh someone just told me it's nearly already the case... Yay!

    Press a button and all your real life paperwork will be done instantly with nothing else to do... yeah that would be great, but paperworks are a pain in the ass, NS2 is a game and meant to give pleasure by playing it, not by looking a bunch of images going on the screen without really any interaction.
    It's a FPS, we have a mouse in our hand, not a gamepad, everything is possible. Or if you are playing NS2 with a gamepad, I understand your concerns but would think pretty hard things about you and invite you to wash your hand as soon as possible.


    Please, please please, stop that... and practice your skills, it's not that hard... well with good frames per seconds, if there is not enough yeah, it's really hard and can't do it myself.
    One great advice that worked really well for me, and all the people who asked me "how to play better", is to practice in local mode, test some moves, try to follow a point far away : easy, or really not easy for a new player, then to follow a point very close and do circle strafe : harder, and don't even ask that to a new player it would be ridiculous. And don't forget to shoot when you are alone, it adds a difficulty that you will encounter on the battlefield anyhow.
    It's exactly the same with drawings, take a pen, a paper, and just draw stupid lines and circles during 10 minutes, it will greatly improve your drawings with that stupid and simple exercise.
    This is one another example of all the "problem" here. You certainly have no problem for shooting from a long distance an enemy, but what if a new player come and ask for an auto aim for marines because it's hard to follow a moving target, especially with bad computer performance? It's exactly the same thing.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    In NS1, no matter which class you are, you can feel really powerful and a threat to anyone, while being greatly threatened by anyone at the same time.
    In NS2, you just feel crappy against nearly everything, but at the same time, you feel as much crappy when the roles are reversed.

    This is what fun is about, feeling as an asset to the game, and feeling that you can change something.
  • ogzogz Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9765Posts: 646Members
    sorry, don't agree with this one

    the whole reason they added the 'camera inside the mouth' thing was to deliberately make it harder for aliens to track marines while biting...

    next time, try tracking a marine up close without pressing attack, its a lot easier to do..

    to practice your 'tracking' suggest you start by only pressing attack when you are sure you will land a hit, and less spamming

    later on you will find that the intervals between a bite, losing your target, refinding it in time for the next bite, will get shorter and shorter.

    finally, what you will start to learn is how to predict the marine movement as it tries to avoid you and shift your view in that direction, even while your mouth is fully shut and you can't see anything

    TL;DR... practice makes perfect :p


  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Posts: 1,042Members
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (swalk @ Nov 30 2011, 06:13 AM) »
    Oh god, please no autoaim.
    It removes the skill of being an alien.

    This was what first came to mind, and after reading how this thread expanded, I have to say, I haven't changed my opinion.

    Also, auto-aim would allow aliens to go more buck wild, making them harder to be shot. In any skill based game, one side should not be unfairly buffed.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Posts: 2,794Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Nov 30 2011, 11:43 AM) »
    [...]like I said however, it was a problem in NS1, which had perfectly smooth FPS.


    No, it was not a problem in NS1.
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Posts: 2,794Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 4 2011, 10:30 PM) »
    The time it takes to interpret the visual cues, or find them and follow them, is roughly the same as it takes to spin around really fast and find the marine with your eyes.


    The movement of the marine is not erratic given a reasonable framerate.

    You learn how players behave and how they try to dodge by repeatedly playing the game. You learn to pick up on cues(acceleration is not very high; the earlier you pick up on it the easier it is to follow their movement).

    QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 4 2011, 10:30 PM) »
    you spend most of your time disoriented and trying to figure out where the enemy went[...]


    Or you learn, through playing the game repeatedly, to track the enemy and keep on target.

    QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 4 2011, 10:30 PM) »
    [...]hence the direct intervention to keep the enemy on screen at all times.


    Mastery is almost the entire reason games are fun; especially online games. Please stop trying the suck the fun out of games.
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Posts: 3,883Members
    edited December 2011
    I see Chris's point and I agree that it can be a problem, but I don't really agree with his Zeno Clash-style solution.
    The pheromone trail solution seems more desirable, as it doesn't quite add a melee aimbot; however, it could simply add to the visual noise, and I'm not sure if it would help that much, for reasons that Chris has already stated.

    I have a suggestion which is similar to the pheromone trail, but it's essentially an arrow that points to targets that are within a reasonable distance. The difference is that, the further around/away the marine and/or the further the alien would need to rotate, the longer and more pronounced the arrow becomes, so with a little bit of practice, a player can judge, from the size/shape of the arrow, how far they have to turn to recapture the marine on screen.
    However, having said this, this could simply be a feature tied to Parasite - making Parasite more useful, and encouraging the behaviour of Parasiting marines, as well as helping newer players. Of course, in this way, it would not be so useful for fades and onoses, which can be a good or a bad thing.
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  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 11 2011, 03:25 AM) »
    I see Chris's point and I agree that it can be a problem, but I don't really agree with his Zeno Clash-style solution.
    The pheromone trail solution seems more desirable, as it doesn't quite add a melee aimbot; however, it could simply add to the visual noise, and I'm not sure if it would help that much, for reasons that Chris has already stated.

    I have a suggestion which is similar to the pheromone trail, but it's essentially an arrow that points to targets that are within a reasonable distance. The difference is that, the further around/away the marine and/or the further the alien would need to rotate, the longer and more pronounced the arrow becomes, so with a little bit of practice, a player can judge, from the size/shape of the arrow, how far they have to turn to recapture the marine on screen.
    However, having said this, this could simply be a feature tied to Parasite - making Parasite more useful, and encouraging the behaviour of Parasiting marines, as well as helping newer players. Of course, in this way, it would not be so useful for fades and onoses, which can be a good or a bad thing.


    In armed assault, they simulate peripheral vision by having objects of note create a coloured blob in the edge of the screen, it can actually help quite a bit with situational awareness, and is subtle enough that it doesn't get in the way. You see the movement on the edge of your peripheral vision and turn to look at it, which is how peripheral vision should work. It's actually one of the few parts of ArmA that I think works extraordinarily well, so there is some precedent if you're wondering.

    That at the very least would be a good addition I think everyone can get behind for aliens. It wouldn't solve the problem, but if everyone is so averse to any sort of aim assist I suppose I could make do with that.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • WilsonWilson Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72867Posts: 1,397Members
    Yeah, I like that idea. Parasite a marine and then he shows up in your peripheral vision (similar to hit indicators at the side of the screen).
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  • liambardenliambarden Join Date: 2011-06-29 Member: 107096Posts: 4Members
    This is not about lowering the skill required to play skulks. This is about shifting the focus of the players effort away from trying to face a fast opponent jumping and circling you at point blank range, and towards the problem of getting close to the marines in the first place.

    I think many are forgetting that NS2 is all about having asymmetrical teams and abilities. Marines need to keep range in order to take out aliens, and the idea is that when the alien gets close, theyre rather screwed (as you would be if one of those things was right next to you, imagine trying to run circles around a pit-bull). At the moment however, this is not the challenge of playing as aliens. Rather it comes down is fighting the limitations of a keyboard, mouse and monitor so that you are even AWARE of where the enemy is. I once bunnyhopped around a fade for 40 seconds and killed it, alone, with a rifle. Lucky, I know (im not a particularly good player and have poor fps) but even luck shouldnt get you that far. This just plain isnt fun.

    The skulk should be all about just that, skulking in the shadows. Increase the skill needed to get close, and then allow the player to easily do what skulks should be able to do instinctively, face the threat.
  • SmasherSmasher Join Date: 2005-03-06 Member: 43732Posts: 268Members
    QUOTE (liambarden @ Dec 13 2011, 01:59 PM) »
    This is about shifting the focus of the players effort away from trying to face a fast opponent jumping and circling you at point blank range, and towards the problem of getting close to the marines in the first place.

    I think many are forgetting that NS2 is all about having asymmetrical teams and abilities. Marines need to keep range in order to take out aliens, and the idea is that when the alien gets close, theyre rather screwed (as you would be if one of those things was right next to you, imagine trying to run circles around a pit-bull). At the moment however, this is not the challenge of playing as aliens. Rather it comes down is fighting the limitations of a keyboard, mouse and monitor so that you are even AWARE of where the enemy is.

    By your logic we may aswell add an "auto-aim feature", so that marines can shoot those skulks when they are far away - all according to the game design. Just hold down that mouse-button for long enough and you'll get the kill.
    Fun game that would be..
    And yes, aimbot will lower the skill required, why wouldn't it?
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  • ale'ale' Join Date: 2011-08-06 Member: 114689Posts: 63Members
    QUOTE (liambarden @ Dec 13 2011, 07:59 PM) »
    This is not about lowering the skill required to play skulks. This is about shifting the focus of the players effort away from trying to face a fast opponent jumping and circling you at point blank range, and towards the problem of getting close to the marines in the first place.

    I think many are forgetting that NS2 is all about having asymmetrical teams and abilities. Marines need to keep range in order to take out aliens, and the idea is that when the alien gets close, theyre rather screwed (as you would be if one of those things was right next to you, imagine trying to run circles around a pit-bull). At the moment however, this is not the challenge of playing as aliens. Rather it comes down is fighting the limitations of a keyboard, mouse and monitor so that you are even AWARE of where the enemy is. I once bunnyhopped around a fade for 40 seconds and killed it, alone, with a rifle. Lucky, I know (im not a particularly good player and have poor fps) but even luck shouldnt get you that far. This just plain isnt fun.

    The skulk should be all about just that, skulking in the shadows. Increase the skill needed to get close, and then allow the player to easily do what skulks should be able to do instinctively, face the threat.


    Aliens already have an advantage in close combat. If an alien player can't kill you within 40 seconds of when he got close to you, he deserves to lose the melee.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 11,519Forum Admins, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue mod
    edited December 2011
    You know, I was going to steer clear of this subject but after thinking about it some more...

    I honestly don't see the problem at all, with killing marines when you're close to them as a Skulk. Even I can easily follow and take down multiple marines, when I get close to them with my below par FPS 24-35! It's all about anticipating and judging your bites carefully, FPS twitch instincts (Skulk instincts if you will). Something you can easily learn with a bit of practice. This console inspired artificial influencing the mouse or some kind of locking has no place on a keyboard mouse control system like the PC, it the most accurate FPS equipment known to man and over the past, what is it, ~17years has proved itself!

    When the FPS does go down to around 15-19FPS during endgame, I do have more trouble with landing bites. But that is not to blame on the Skulk bite obviously...

    The only thing that pisses me off are medkits :P And the fact the Skulk doesn't scale up to endgame. NS had the same issue, but hell I'm probably on a different page as UWE on this. I just hate being forced to use the other life forms except the Gorge and Skulk
    Post edited by Unknown User on

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  • ogzogz Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9765Posts: 646Members
    'threat' indicator seems feasible.. could replace the scent of fear from ns1?



  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Posts: 3,883Members
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (Smasher @ Dec 14 2011, 03:24 AM) »
    By your logic we may aswell add an "auto-aim feature", so that marines can shoot those skulks when they are far away - all according to the game design. Just hold down that mouse-button for long enough and you'll get the kill.
    Fun game that would be..
    And yes, aimbot will lower the skill required, why wouldn't it?

    That was pretty heavy hyperbole, and I don't think liam actually (this is just my interpretation of what he said though) supported the concept of target lock-on (melee aimbot a la Zeno Clash), but rather the concept of better awareness at melee range.

    It seems like most people agree that the lock-on idea removes too much of the skill required in melee engagements, but that keeping track of marines is more difficult than it should be.
    A lot of people seem to like (or don't mind) the idea of:
    + an edge-of-screen purely-visual "threat"-indicator that:
    + simulates peripheral vision/proximate awareness when:
    + the target is within reasonable melee range, using:
    + edge-of-screen motion (to stimulate the player's peripheral vision) and/or** "arrows" with sizes/shapes that are contextually-sensitive (to indicate polar angle from target), tied to:
    + "parasite" and/or** "scent of fear".

    **I would go with "and" for both of these options, personally.
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 11,519Forum Admins, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue mod
    As long as it doesn't obscure the view. I use them little cracks in between the teeth to track the meatbags with guns and don't want some kind of sprite or other GUI thing to obscure anything! I dislike a computer generated script to tell me where to go next, make it a toggle option instead :)

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  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Posts: 1,726Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Removing one of the few remaining skulk features that scale with skill doesn't seem like a very bright idea. Honestly don't even understand why this is being discussed in any serious manner.

    Adding peripheral vision indicators would ruing any attempts at playing sneaky as marine. No thanks.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 16 2011, 04:29 PM) »
    Adding peripheral vision indicators would ruing any attempts at playing sneaky as marine. No thanks.


    You mean more than being covered in christmas lights and followed by teammates waving giant glowing white flashlight cones while walking on infestation that gives the aliens wallhacks and showing up bright red on alien vision already does?

    You can't play sneaky as a marine.
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Posts: 3,883Members
    QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 17 2011, 12:29 AM) »
    Removing one of the few remaining skulk features that scale with skill doesn't seem like a very bright idea. Honestly don't even understand why this is being discussed in any serious manner.

    Please don't take offense at this, but it seems like, from what you're saying, that you'd just prefer "everyone else playing bad" than you actually "playing better".

    Currently, tracking a marine as a skulk doesn't really scale with skill (i.e. a smooth progression): because you see, currently, tracking a marine as a skulk is a rather binary affair: you are either competent** (or lucky, as the case may be) and the game is fun, or you are incompetent (or unlucky) and the game is a lot less fun.

    Peripheral vision / proximate awareness indicators do not suddenly make every n00b hyper-competent ("skilled") or make them super-effective ("no skill input, high power output"), it only lowers the barrier to competence**.

    ** "competent" does not mean "skilled". competence is simply the minimum base-line for a player to be effective at all (i.e. to have fun). skill, on the other hand, means "how effective?"

    And that, I think, is the real goal of this suggestion, to change the question from "Am I effective at all? Yes/No." to "How effective am I?"

    Unless, of course, you don't want a more competitive and challenging opponent, but you much rather enjoy shooting incompetent new skulks who are utterly unable to track you - in which case, I'm preaching to the wrong crowd.

    QUOTE
    Adding peripheral vision indicators would ruing any attempts at playing sneaky as marine. No thanks.

    QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 16 2011, 11:32 AM) »
    tied to:
    + "parasite" and/or** "scent of fear".

    If what I'm trying to say above by pasting that quote is not obvious enough, let's say it straight: In these cases, you are going to be visible anyway, so "sneaky" doesn't come into it.
    Suggestions: ! @ # $ %
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    If anything, the bit of the skulk gameplay the works well is the getting into melee range.

    I mean there's so many approaches, you can rely on stealth and clever positioning to ambush marines, you can rely on teamwork to distract marines and use the time that buys you to close in, and eventually you'll be able to rely on pure movement finesse to get close even with the marine knowing where you are.

    Skulk movement is one of its strongest potential areas, and moreover it most definitely scales, being ok-ish at it means you maybe get shot more on the way in, or maybe you need to start from a closer position, or maybe you can't fight as many marines at once, but there's lots of ways to improve and generally you can get close enough to do some damage, if not quite enough to kill if you perhaps aren't as good as you could be.

    But like the above poster mentioned, skulk close quarters fighting is pretty binary, either you do track them and it works or you don't and it doesn't. And it really is a lot down to luck whether you turn the right way or get to see which way the marine went, or if they turn the wrong way and give you a bit of extra time to act.

    It's also another thing the skulk has to do on top of what it already has to do, a marine is best at longer range and can fight in melee if it has to, a skulk can't do anything at long range and uses the same melee mechanics as the marine. I don't really think that's fair. if skulks are going to be melee dependant they need something to make them better at it than a marine with a shotgun or a rifle butt. At the moment I am probably better with the rifle butt than I am with the bite, because the rifle usually only takes one hit to kill the skulk because I managed to shoot it a few times before it got close, and it's no harder to use than skulk bite.
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