ns2_turtle - V1.0 Released

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  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Posts: 1,802Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited October 2011
    QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Oct 26 2011, 12:37 PM) »
    Even if I do not always agree on criticism, I seek to understand. So I have been looking at some changes in the lighting.

    image

    I may be biased in what i think because everything was done for a reason. So tell me people who say it is too dark, how are skulks going to be able to use that ceiling without getting sniped if it is lit?

    Do you people think darkness should not be a gameplay element?

    Edit: I am actually coming to like this extra layer of lighting. :D

    image


    The engine room looks a lot better when lit up. Front Hold looks has also improved, just a little more illumination near the entrance could enhance the contrast.

    Darkness could be a game element. The problem arises when there is too much of it, then it skews the balance of the the game. For example, in your Front Hold shot, there are already a lot of objects for aliens to ambush from - around the bend behind containers, on top of containers, and from the ceiling.

    If there are too many ambush locations, however, Marines can be surprised and overwhelmed too easily, as it will be impossible for a few Marines to check all angles in sufficient time to avoid an ambush. For Front Hold ceiling area, you could make the beams and the ledges a little wider to give aliens more cover.

    Keep in mind that aliens have upgrades that can enhance their ability to approach Marines (Cloak, Leap, Blink, etc), to shorten Marine reaction time even further.

    Darkness can also be aesthetically detrimental to your map. It robs the map of its brilliant details. When an area is devoid of lights, then it becomes very difficult to illuminate it later. Why not take advantage of dynamic lighting, and let the power grid system do the dirty work? :)

    PS. Sorry about the annotation spam.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Posts: 915Members, Squad Five Blue
    Thanks for annotations! I really like some ideas. Especially around hub. And all those little thing are really helpful.

    By the way you can jump down as a marine in that corridor 'behind' bridge. You got to crouch>jump :p
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  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Posts: 915Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited November 2011
    Thanks again to ALL who have posted with a special thanks to twilightblue.

    Life is truly magical, as different revealings come together. I am also an architecture student and one of my greatest inspirations is Louis Khan. I have always thought that the purity of his buildings came from him being intransigent about his work but I just learned that on the contrary 'his' works' was the work of many people trying to find the best expression of the idea, until the building became the idea.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Posts: 1,802Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited October 2011
    Thanks for your kind words Evil_bOb1.

    Engine is starting to looking good already! Can't wait to see what surprises you have up your sleeves.

    For Marine start, the ceiling in the middle of the room is rather low. But I suppose you need a relatively low ceiling above the tech node, for attaching a Hive. The ceiling is very difficult for wall walking (flying near the ceiling isn't so easy either).

    When I enter marine start from the western entrance, I get an odd sensation, as my attention is immediately drawn to the right side, and left me feeling blinded on the left side.

    I feel that the raised platform at the northern entrance of marine start is either too large or too small. If you elevate more of the middle level, however, the ceiling would become even lower.

    I'm also curious how such an exposed tech node will play out.

    It's easy to see your passion for architecture in your map. Keep up the good work!
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Posts: 915Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Oct 30 2011, 08:11 AM) »
    For Marine start, the ceiling in the middle of the room is rather low. But I suppose you need a relatively low ceiling above the tech node, for attaching a Hive. The ceiling is very difficult for wall walking (flying near the ceiling isn't so easy either).

    When I enter marine start from the western entrance, I get an odd sensation, as my attention is immediately drawn to the right side, and left me feeling blinded on the left side.

    I feel that the raised platform at the northern entrance of marine start is either too large or too small. If you elevate more of the middle level, however, the ceiling would become even lower.

    I'm also curious how such an exposed tech node will play out.


    Well as you might of noticed I have removed the longitudinal beams that were there before. From a Marine's perspective The lecture of the space is much easier and it raises the feeling of the ceiling. The overall perception is much better and a few tweaking like on the position of the lights will shift the perception onto the room even more (especially when coming from that western entrance).

    So I think what you pointed out is starting to be addressed. :D thanks again!

    Edit:
    b1-MS

    b1-MS
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • BJHBnade_spammerBJHBnade_spammer Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42431Posts: 464Members
    much better and when i was talking about not enough lighting i meant where there where no lights at all you had several hallways and corridors that had absolutely no lights either they where not finished or may of been over looked. you need some sortive lighting around the map even if it is just ambient lighting and is really dim as long as there is some and you can have really dark places around your map with no lights it just needs to look appropriate. or else it feels weird when you enter that area.
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Posts: 915Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2011
    I got you. That was in fact very good advice you gave above. ;)

    b1-Engine

    b1-Engine
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • BJHBnade_spammerBJHBnade_spammer Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42431Posts: 464Members
    there needs to be a vent in backup where the tech node is. also are you cleaning up the walk ways in that area so it is also a little more open.
  • KurrineKurrine Join Date: 2010-07-03 Member: 72235Posts: 478Members
    edited November 2011
    The color transitions of the lights (yellow to blue) feel a bit odd in a few rooms but it's nothing heavily jarring for me. Besides that I'm digging the fairly high contrast feel to the lights overall.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    NS2 is a re-imagining, it'll likely never be the sequel some were looking for.

    NS2c, The NS2 you may be looking for; sticking closer to it's roots.

    Thank you, modding community.

    _______________________________________________________________________

    The best page in the universe
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Posts: 915Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited November 2011
    @BJHBnade_spammer

    I will be cleaning it all up like I did with engine. I see how I'm going to tackle it and thinking of that has also given me a great idea for opening up bridge a bit.

    When you say vent in backup, from where to where? In the space above the rt in backup/engine there is a nice place for a vent entrance. I could make a vent going from there to the inner space in backup, with also a path going to ventilation. Sounds nice, I'll look into that.

    @Kurrine

    I'll look into that too. Are you talking from looking at b1 or the last screams I've posted? I am trying to have a color theme for each area, but I don't want it too be too much colors neither. I think I've hit the spot in my current build in Marine spawn and engine. The lighting takes a lot of tweaking. There is a difference from the editor to the game which doesn't help. Colored lighting can also look very weird if the color isn't right. If you can be specific of where it doesn't feel right it would help. Most of the time I am aware but having input can tell me why its not right.

    ---

    I have strong ideas in this map which might make it feel like I don't need help. But as it shows with the recent changes, most of my ideas were not conveyed right and having people telling me something's wrong can really help me and this map get to the next level.

    Thanks again to everyone. This map is starting to look amazing thanks to you all. This is my first full-scale map project and it has already gone way beyond anything I could of expected from achieving. :D There is still a lot of work thought before a next release so any input is most welcome.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • BJHBnade_spammerBJHBnade_spammer Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42431Posts: 464Members
    in the space above where the tech point is up in the upper area above it im not sure where it should go but putting one there so skulks or aliens can ambush the tech point would be nice.
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Posts: 915Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2011
    building b2

    hub

    Hub
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • TigTig Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71674Posts: 977Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    i like your style. you like those pipes. yay for prop instancing!

    maybe, just maybe, throw some gameplay props in the middle of some of those rooms. need some ambush spots that aren't in the ceiling.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 11,481Forum Admins, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue mod
    edited November 2011
    Added a bunch of (11 it seems) annotations (ns2_turtle_b1 with 187, future reference :P)
    Post edited by Unknown User on

    Forum Admin "guardian of the magic cookiejar" Admin/Moderator I mostly use a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Existence Unknown

    98 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Posts: 915Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2011
    thanks!

    building b2

    alien start

    gate

    Edit to Zuriki's liking :)
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • ZurikiZuriki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75105Posts: 503Members
    Move that girder along half way, so it makes 2 entrances right next to each other and opens up the RT on two sides. I hate seeing RTs tucked into |_| areas.
    image
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Posts: 915Members, Squad Five Blue
    Bridge is still wip, but here is an idea of how it has been opened up. :D

    image
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  • ZurikiZuriki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75105Posts: 503Members
    QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Nov 7 2011, 03:32 AM) »
    Edit to Zuriki's liking :p


    Almost missed this line, I was like "huh, I'm sure it wasn't like that before" then I saw it and was like "ohhhh *epic grin*"!

    Thanks, it looks a lot better this way imo.
    image
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Posts: 915Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited November 2011
    A little something.

    image

    ----edit

    Was playing around with minimap. I imagine b2 pretty well now, and its moving along nicely. Loading(including backhold) and backup are where there still needs a rework of the layout. I think you will like this version :D

    image
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,868Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited November 2011
    Just played a PCW on this map, and I gotta say; that was really fun!
    First impressions, I really liked the layout of the map, and it was very fast paced, compared to summit.
    I like that you are opening up some of the areas. Some of the places are very marine unfriendly.
    Also, Loading seems like the obvious hive for aliens, since it's so close to alien start. The others seemed too accessable to marines.
    We had different situations/PG placements with the same hive in both rounds.
    First round we had a phase gate at the resource tower north of Hub. And we never got weapons to kill the hive before it was up, and we lost.
    In the 2nd round, they had a phase gate in Engine, behind the door. And that made a pretty fun situation where marines opened the door, and aliens swarmed into engine and killed all marines and then the phase gate.
    Both good games, I thought I wanted to give you an update as well. Looking forward to playing more on the map.
    Other than that, your map might be a little overdetailed in some areas, it strained some of the players eyes. Can't give you specific places unfortunately. But hopefully others can :)
    Anyway, you did a great job so far, keep on going!
    Post edited by Unknown User on

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • ale'ale' Join Date: 2011-08-06 Member: 114689Posts: 63Members
    We just played a couple of rounds on Turtle. I had a lot of fun and the map seemed to play pretty well. Hard to say much on the balance given the current state of the game and my very limited experience on the map, but it was definitely fun to play on. The map felt a bit confusing, but maybe I just need to learn it.

    I wasn't a huge fan of the look of the map, though. There was way too many colors and too much contrast. I feel the visual feel of the map is too busy.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    edited November 2011
    It was funny games yeah, especially the locked door situation, we were not really ready when someone opened it and we had suddenly the all alien team on our phase gate. I recorded part of our alien game, I will upload it tomorrow, although I'm not sure if it's really useful.

    As said there is a bit too much details and contrast.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • BarerRudeROCBarerRudeROC Join Date: 2010-10-01 Member: 74264Posts: 256Members
    Vents!!!
    Vents!!!

    Dammit man we can never get enough vents!
    image
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Posts: 915Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited November 2011
    Wow! cool please upload. :D

    Its cool to know that locked door situation worked out how I kind of imagined it. I am currently reworking on loading and it has gone through a bunch of changes. The space behind it doesn't exist anymore. The tp has moved back. The entrance through hub is also going to go through change which might make it easier to attack from there. I have though about removing it to force aliens into the map a bit but it would remove that situation. I have no idea if it will work out better or not though. The final game will require 3 hives for tier 3 though so having a hive a bit easier to defend for aliens sound appropriate.

    I think you will be happy to know I have cleaned up a lot of things and toned down the contrast a lot already. I will continue to work on that and with OnosAteMe's radiance mod I will surely be able to clean up the lighting scheme in a much more proper way. Its one of those things that are hard to predict from the editor how it will look ingame and I'm currently not satisfied with current colors.

    I would of never thought there would be too much details though as in the version you have there are very few props (apart from catwalks) but they have been removed a lot. I guess the geometry is something different :D I am constantly changing textures too, removing some of those light trims will surely help, keeping them where there is a focus (door, rt, tp) as currently I agree it is hard to distinguish special elements, every thing blends in.

    I have removed the vent from bridge, was it that much of a problem? Anyway I think it was a good thing to remove it.

    And most importantly I'm glad it was a lot of fun and fast paced. That is my primary goal with this map.

    If you have any more points you think about please tell me. I take everything in consideration. :D

    b2 is going slowly but smoothly, I am being very patient about it addressing things with zen. I really stressed myself on those first releases but I am glad i got them out because the feedback has really pointed a lot of things. I think b2 is going to be much closer to a full map, which surely will have its issues but will be very minor compared to alpha and beta1 issues. I never would of imagined that I would be working the map to its essence, but it makes sens now. Things are getting simpler, more to the point.

    Thanks people!!! This was very unexpected :D

    Edit:BarerRudeROC there will be vents in b2 :D Again if you have more suggestion for vents, where you think they are really appropriate i will put them in. Currently I have a vent from Alien start that moves into the right side of hub. I'm planning a vent between hub(left)/engine/loading (which will combine with that passage that will open up and the vent currently under). A vent between backup/engine/ventilation. A vent between bridge/alien start. And maybe a vent between bridge and hub, sort of where the old vent was.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Posts: 915Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited November 2011
    This might be much much too soon to talk about it, but those fun situations are really what I like. I am already thinking about my next map once turtle is in good shape which will be smaller and simpler, maybe just 4 TPs but with a very very unique situation, maybe random starts I'll see. All I'm gonna say is its another 'spaceship' going to be called ns2_phoenix. :D
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,868Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited November 2011
    Just adding some videos from Koruyo, just found out about them :D
    Round 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxmvZwieLMU
    Round 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIF5VHKsKGo
    I hope you can use that to see the combat flow, and maybe enjoy them a bit ^^
    And we have a planned game, casted by ale and zeikko, on sunday, against HBZ, on ns2_turtle.
    We will also be bringing you those casts!
    Post edited by Unknown User on

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Posts: 1,802Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited November 2011
    I enjoyed watching those two videoes. Thanks swalk and koryuo!

    Marine spawn probably should have less entrances (it is too exposed). Perhaps one entrance should be covered by a door (which can be broken later).

    About the contrasting colors. I find yellow and purple/pink look very weird when juxtaposed. Does anyone else have that feeling?

    I also noticed some odd flashes of shadows from bright, but short-ranged lights (@4:00 in the video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...5VHKsKGo#t=237s.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Posts: 915Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited November 2011
    That was a real fun watch and I couldn't help but laugh with you guys! :D

    If you guys want I can send you an updated version for your scrim on Sunday. It won't be all I want to change for b2 (mainly the vents) and maybe have some dev textures and still some funky lighting but it should be nicer on marines :p . There as some significant changes already and it would be nice to see if its all going in the right direction.

    What really impressed me was the pace of the game. I didn't think it would be THAT fast paced compared to other maps but all good :D
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • ale'ale' Join Date: 2011-08-06 Member: 114689Posts: 63Members
    I have one more piece of criticism: I think you should rename some of the locations. There are two resource points on Hub but they are so far away from each other that they are effectively different locations. It's not obvious what they're called. As you can see, we refer to them as "south of Hub" and "north of Hub" in the videos, but I think there should be names for them on the mini map as well. Maybe Hub should be divided into Starboard Hub and Port Hub or something like that (north and south wouldn't make any sense as it's a space ship). It's also not immediately obvious which location the resource point between Engine and Backup is located in.
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,868Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited November 2011
    QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Nov 17 2011, 04:58 AM) »
    I enjoyed watching those two videoes. Thanks swalk and koryuo!

    Marine spawn probably should have less entrances (it is too exposed). Perhaps one entrance should be covered by a door (which can be broken later).

    About the contrasting colors. I find yellow and purple/pink look very weird when juxtaposed. Does anyone else have that feeling?

    I also noticed some odd flashes of shadows from bright, but short-ranged lights (@4:00 in the video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...5VHKsKGo#t=237s.

    No problem :)
    I agree that marine start is too exposed. Try giving the north entrance a door. That could end up giving the same cool factor as Loading hive when the onos smashes into the base in the next patch. ie. Onos unlocks the fastest path into marine start.
    Also, we would be happy to try an updated version on sunday :D
    Post edited by Unknown User on

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
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