Natural Selection 2 News Update - NS2 Build 163 released

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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 11,450Forum Admins, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue mod
    Is it me or does the flashlight look more awesome?

    Forum Admin "guardian of the magic cookiejar" Admin/Moderator I mostly use a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

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  • douchebagatrondouchebagatron Custom member title Join Date: 2003-12-20 Member: 24581Posts: 3,509Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Feb 17 2011, 09:41 PM) »
    Making resource towers also a new source for infestation spreading would solve the slow expansion issue.

    Perhaps have the Gorgy put down a patch first so the RT can be placed, after which it starts spreading infestation?



    I do agree that RTs shouldn't require infestation.

    also bug:
    Whips seem to be able to move through walls and then fall off into the abyss. that's why they disappear.
    the artist formerly known as 6john
    and
    the artist currently known as d*uchebagatron
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Posts: 1,014Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    The bug allowing L2 CC without a second CC is a big game killer too.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Posts: 4,610Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I started a private game, turned cheats on and went alien commander. I wasn't able to build anything, whenever I selected a building and clicked on the ground it would just give the drifter a move order.

    Also, the dynamic infestation effect is a good start but I don't like that it appears in the middle of nowhere. IMO it should work exactly like SC2's creep tumors - make it so that the radius is twice as large but the origin point has to be on top of infestation that's connected to the hive. So rather than appearing in thin air and expanding out towards the nearest infestation, the infestation spreads outwards from the edge of existing infestation. That way you can leave the effect as spreading outwards from the center exactly like it is, except it looks like the infestation is expanding outwards from an established infestation source. I like the Gorge patch the way it is though.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 11,450Forum Admins, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue mod
    "Fix Skulk getting stuck during wall walk"

    Might be a fix for that, but the new Skulk Collision model is quite bad near stairs and trough vents. It gets stuck a lot...

    Forum Admin "guardian of the magic cookiejar" Admin/Moderator I mostly use a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

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  • PlasmaPlasma Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15855Posts: 605Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Zek: Type 'dev 1' in the console also, otherwise the game won't actually start with just 1 player.
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Posts: 1,014Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Server performance seems to have gone down a good 30-40%. Every server lags badly now.
  • McGlaspieMcGlaspie www.team156.com Lord MuckyMuck of the Programmers Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73044Posts: 825Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester, Community Dev Team
    edited February 2011
    QUOTE (Quovatis @ Feb 17 2011, 11:29 PM) »
    Server performance seems to have gone down a good 30-40%. Every server lags badly now.
    I can vouch for this. CPU/Memory utilization is about the same (slightly higher), but server tick rate has dropped from an average of 10 down to 4 on my server. With proto DI in-game now, we've never been more in need of a slew of server performance fixes.
    Post edited by Unknown User on

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  • Delta1Delta1 Join Date: 2009-08-01 Member: 68326Posts: 72Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2011
    Looks good but bugs showing up per usual

    sentries firing at infestation
    Evolve menu dissapearing but mouse still showing ie cant aim/bite etc

    PS i love how the alien start rt has been moved, no longer being sniped/ninja'd depending on team :p
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • SkieSkie Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Posts: 656Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Positives/negatives (not just b163, but general feelings as well):

    + Tram alien first res node is now close to hive, which is nice.
    + Skulk bite regging seems improved, which is nice.
    + Slight FPS improvement again?

    - New alien vision brings me down to 5 fps or so, but not that I get more than 20-30 anyways.
    - The screen throbbing red on low hp also drops the fps to around 5.
    - You need DI, even for res nodes, which is a stupid mechanic. Fast expanding as aliens is quite near impossible. The res tower should be able to sustain itself on the RESOURCES that come from the node.
    - Shotgun still OP. One shotting lerks and skulks left and right.
    - Flamer even more OP, kills skulks in less than a second. You can just swing it madly and nothing can kill you. Maybe limit how fast you can turn around with it or make it so that if you turn too fast, you set yourself on fire. Or then just do the reasonable thing and lower its DPS. It would be okay if it burned aliens constantly at the pace that at which is left to linger, and not like 80 damage/second when you point it at a thing.
    - Pistol is OP as well. 4 shots to kill a skulk is a couple too few.
    - Fade's "Mega damage" attack has lower DPS and normal attack AND it hampers your movement. -> no point in using it.
    - Fade's "Normal damage" attack does the same damage as a skulk's attack, which is disappointing.
    - MACs repair too fast. One MAC out-repairs two skulks' damage output.
    - MACs move faster than skulks, and float awkwardly in the air when moving from a waypoint to other, so they're impossible to catch. A feral beast is slower than a floaty mechanical bot.
    - Spamming health kits for marines seems overpowered.
    - Sound issues... Same as with everyone else.
    - I get this bug often with alien evolve menu that as soon as I open it, it closes, and the cursor gets stuck on screen. Going to main menu and then back to game resolves it though.

    This might seem biased, but in the last 10 games "Random" has thrown me into alien team each time. And still there's almost always 1 or 2 more marines than aliens. If marines get flamer, everyone on aliens just quits.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Posts: 4,610Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (Delta1 @ Feb 17 2011, 11:51 PM) »
    Looks good but bugs showing up per usual

    sentries firing at infestation
    Evolve menu dissapearing but mouse still showing ie cant aim/bite etc

    PS i love how the alien start rt has been moved, no longer being sniped/ninja'd depending on team :p

    I hope the natural infestation area of a hive is mapper controlled so they don't all have to be so close though.
  • BandannaBandanna Join Date: 2010-12-13 Member: 75658Posts: 13Members
    edited February 2011
    bugs on the first tryout:

    -I got stuck on the bent metal floor sheeting, while I was flaming alien hive. I did not move at all, but when the alien hive died, I somehow teleported in between the sheeting and I couldn't move.

    -I lost all sounds after that. Not even menu sounds worked. Total mute, except I did hear rifle firing at some point.

    ?? - As an alien, kills don't register personal resource points for me. I was stuck having 26 res even after killing multiple marines.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • kingmobkingmob Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3650Posts: 705Members, Constellation
    edited February 2011
    Pros

    + DI Although it is just a decal and when it crawls up walls it streams...it still is cool and adds more to the atmosphere and character of this game.

    + Sentry rotation yes.

    + Alien Vision. I use it lots as skulk. A little on lerk and really none on the fade.
    It is really helpful in boiling off the noise.

    + Whip walking very cool.
    I saw a commander keep moving a whip so it was a surprise every time.

    + Cleaned up commander GUIs nicely. (Now tell the commander to give me a waypoint)

    + Skulk wall walking was big improvement <----EDIT

    Cons (bugs)

    + DI did not burn in a game i played.
    We as marines survived until we got flamethrowers and then tried to push back.
    We couldn't and there was DI everwhere.
    The DI lit but it never died.
    Thus we could not die.

    + Bug in the sentry rotation ...does not show sentry ...also build on creep should just be denied.

    + Although the FPS still says I am getting low 30s to 40s what I see is jagged.
    This is a distinct difference between previous build.
    No difference whether I am in alien vision or not.
    For instance when I bite on a resnode or powernode quickly i probably see half the bites.

    + A sound bug occured. The sound just turned off forever.

    + Minor - when a buildbot is selected the build tab is shown as selected ...but its not the build page.
    I click on the tabs and the build.

    + Bug in armory. where menu mouse arrow did not go away. I could not close it. had to escape to menu and return to game.

    + Minor bugs in skulk wall walking ... It would sometimes slow movement in things like vents... In fact I found one vent I could not climb out opening and had to leap to get out. <
    EDIT
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • l3lessedl3lessed Join Date: 2010-06-07 Member: 71977Posts: 374Members
    Good patch and good start on DI, but as others have pointed out it needs some tweaking.

    I propose making it so that infestation naturally grow in a radius from hives and res nodes. The hive, being the self sustaining heart of the kharaa, generates DI. The harvester uses the resources it is collecting to help sustain itself while also producing a small radius of DI.

    Remove the commanders ability to place infestation, and instead allow him, as others have mentioned, to just control the direction it grows in if possible.

    Gorge should be the only unit that creates infestation and is the vital unit that connects all Kharaa environments and sustains them. Again by allowing another alien unit to do the same thing as a gorge but better, you have minimized the role of the gorge.
  • TAPETRVETAPETRVE Join Date: 2011-02-08 Member: 80866Posts: 125Members
    MACs seem to clip not only into each other, but into walls, the ground and buildings now, too.
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  • douchebagatrondouchebagatron Custom member title Join Date: 2003-12-20 Member: 24581Posts: 3,509Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2011
    more issues:

    *eggs still spawn in alien start after hive is dead
    *killing a hive instantly removes all infestation around it, if it's connected to another hive it should stay, and if not it should dissipate as normal
    *it's possible for the alien commander to put down an initial patch of infestation anywhere, with this he can just fill up marine start over and over. should only be able to place on infestation, just make the radius larger, similar to starcraft2
    *infestation seems to be able to connect through walls, I.E. connecting west wing to middle hive in rockdown. (possible it could've been through the vent, but it didn't look like it)
    *burning away infestation should look a little less ridiculous than just one small patch burning. if this can't be done then the infestation should grow from bulbous points that are burned (a la starcraft2)
    *infestation health should be linked to its size, so as you kill an infestation patch it gets smaller until it's gone, also makes it easier to kill off initial infestation.
    *infestation doesn't seem to damage marine structures or power nodes
    *can't pick up ammo for grenade launcher if machine gun is full
    *if you can't pick ammo up then you collide with it, able to stand on top of it. this is probably also the case with medpacks
    *server performance decreased
    *flamethrower ammo counter broken
    *server manager commands don't seem to respond. I tried putting "map ns2_tram" and "map tram" in and neither seemed to do anything. am I doing something wrong?
    *alien flashlight doesn't pick up flames. not a huge problem, but you also can't tell when you're on fire. my solution: make all particle effects show up as some dark color effect in alien flashlight
    *sometimes when running the game certain textures don't show up. this seems to go away after restarting

    some things i liked:
    *teamwork is happening!
    *dynamic infestation adds a lot to gameplay and atmosphere
    *played a few rounds on a local server with other people connected. was a big laggy for everyone else, but the game ran AWESOME for me. I can really tell that when the server is optimized it will be a LOT of fun for everyone.
    *when the server is running on a low tickrate the game seems to handle it much nicer. instead of constant jerking and stuttering it's more smooth. this is a HUGE bonus.
    *grenade launcher feels a lot better, smoother
    *I like the little patches of infestation around the buildings, nice little polish
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • InkInk Join Date: 2009-08-15 Member: 68499Posts: 261Members
    Obvious bugs from a significant patch.

    I glad DI is in right now, having this added in(although seems to be slowing servers down and causing lag) will let you guys optimize it quicker and balance it faster.

    Even with DI in its first stage is already giving me huge hopes for the system, I was honestly surprised on how it is already, i didnt expect much at all for it this patch but it was a lot more than i anticipated.

    So far I love the direction NS2 is heading in and all the really nice features so far.



    Only feedback for the patch/game so far is the obvious when it goes out of beta.

    * Make DI look better and have it spread smoothly

    *DI from a gorge when connected to the DI of a hive should stay until destroyed.

    *RTs should NOT require DI and should produce a small ring around it when built.

    * Optimize DI

    * Server performance

    * General optimization and bug fixes.
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Posts: 2,523Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer admin
    QUOTE (Quovatis @ Feb 18 2011, 03:43 AM) »
    Also, eggs still don't spawn at the Marine Expansion techpoint if aliens build a hive there.

    QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Feb 18 2011, 03:46 AM) »
    Yeah, I still think UWE doesn't want MS or Main Hive to be a possible expansion for the enemy team... Basically there are no eggspawn entities at the MS and the DI now "fixed" the issue of Marine building in the Main Hive initially...

    Yes, both teams are not meant to be able to drop a hive/cc in the others starting base. However, the expansions are meant to be built in by the enemy team. The eggs not spawning at the Marine Expansion techpoint on Tram is a bug that we thought had been fixed. Will have to look into that again.
    QUOTE (Plasma @ Feb 18 2011, 03:52 AM) »
    Power packs are in this build, but appear to do nothing (on dev mode).

    Yes, power packs have been added into the game, but not enabled and tested properly for gameplay yet.
    QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Feb 18 2011, 04:06 AM) »
    You know, it'd be cool the power pack could let out a nanite pulse that immediately dissipates surrounding DI (once it's built of course).

    Charlie and I actually discussed something pretty close to that idea during a DI brainstorming session and I believe it has been added to the list for power pack features.

    --Cory
  • MenethMeneth Join Date: 2010-11-23 Member: 75234Posts: 3Members
    edited February 2011
    Great sounds, nice flames & awesome infestation.

    few bugs that I noticed:

    - Lost sound except rifle sounds and bullet hulls dropping on ground, when whip hit me. Restart seems to fix it.
    - Infestation was blocking stairs at start hive, jump and got over it.
    - Infestation was still there when new round started & then slowly died away.

    In the end it was fun. Well done :)

    Ideas & Suggestions:

    - More darker rooms & maps
    - Night vision to marines (Researched)
    - No lights on rooms where power node is destroyed. Red light stays on few seconds then fades out, maybe even glowing alien eyes in dark would balance that out.
    - Tune infestation sound -50% (or maybe even -70%)
    - How about infestation gives 10% speed buff to aliens? (Researched)
    - And lots of miniguns with soft rubber bullets!
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,128Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    Well I did get a power generator and a turret in the hall north of marine start in tram. Destroyed the generator and the turret powered down fine.
  • DarksterDarkster Join Date: 2010-02-17 Member: 70612Posts: 65Members, Reinforced - Gold
    Interesting patch, can't wait to try it out.
  • TAPETRVETAPETRVE Join Date: 2011-02-08 Member: 80866Posts: 125Members
    QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 18 2011, 06:56 AM) »
    Yes, power packs have been added into the game, but not enabled and tested properly for gameplay yet.


    I held a 1 on 1 game for testing and the power pack worked just fine, it was stationary, but it kept the power of surrounding buildings intact when the node was down.
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  • juicejuice Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Posts: 1,044Members, Constellation
    edited February 2011
    Before the sound crashes and cuts out, I really enjoy the new sounds. However, once sound source/positional issues are fixed, it will be helpful for marines to sound loud and clunky like NS1. It really added something to skulk ambushing, (and to the idea of clumsy humans / clever kharaa) but now they're too quiet to track, even though I like the sounds.

    Alien vision is extremely awesome.

    I can't really tell the impact of DI yet, besides the obvious. But I would say, maybe, that it seems like a limitation or restriction rather an additional option. It should be a force to be considered, not something that narrows the strategy (especially rts).

    Skulks feel clunkier, but marines seem easier to kill at close range. Skulks are also easier to kill, though. Hitching still limits these dynamics and draws out some encounters longer than they should be. When performance tightens up, the gameplay will need to tighten up as well. (i.e., not so dumbed down)

    QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 18 2011, 12:56 AM) »
    Yes, both teams are not meant to be able to drop a hive/cc in the others starting base.

    What's to gain by this design decision? DI will be able to grow anywhere, making kharaa comfy and right at home. Sounds and lighting even change! The whole direction of the engine is DYNAMIC environments!! You guys should realize you need to do it this way and save mappers time by supporting it in the design docs from this point on, instead of realizing it a few months from now. I understand "Hive rooms" are supposed to be dramatic, but with all the special effects it will be dramatic anywhere. What's more dramatic than if you come home and in your own bedroom(marine start) you know and love, there is a hive and its goo everywhere on the bed?
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Posts: 1,566Members
    Thanks Cory, nice to know the power pack has more functions :)

    But I'll have to agree with juice. Since both sides start at their respective positions depending on the map, once a side has lost their primary hive/command station, it shouldn't remain exclusive to the original owner. A Tech Point's a tech point, there wouldn't be any balance issues because the other side has failed to secure their starting point, thus giving the enemy the winning advantage.
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  • Delta1Delta1 Join Date: 2009-08-01 Member: 68326Posts: 72Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I REALLY dont like the "res nodes can only be built on DI"
    Very slow to get the required res to do anything as aliens. Pain in the ass. Marines basically can cap/secure nodes before can get anywhere.
    I would much like it if Hive/rts only structures that can build without it. Rts could produce a minimal DI maybe to act as a lych pin b/t future expansions. Kill rt DI retreats, would sure make it more important team mates to defend em rather then go "meh i'd rather kill rines"
  • NeoSniperNeoSniper Join Date: 2005-06-02 Member: 52976Posts: 423Members
    edited February 2011
    I didn't get around to playing much with the mechanics but I will give a quick feedback on the issues I noticed... without repeating too much.

    +DI looks cool around the map (not so good on the bottom edge of walls)
    +Alien vision mode sounds greats when turning on and off.
    +skulk bite hits better (I think)

    -On rockdown Alien managed to cover the WHOLE map with DI and server tickrate went down to 3 or 4. Next round starts tickrate goes back up to 20.
    -Alienvision: I can't see my spores as Lerk.
    -Alienvision: Random objects in map show up as red like certain stair steps, the lamp in double, animated fans.
    -Skulk gets stuck in vents a lot
    -skulk also still can NOT climb into roof vents from roof surface (ex. roof vent in Aux)
    -all sound expect rifle turns off and stays off.

    -FPS number seem as good as 162 or better. However game feels much choppier.

    EDIT: Interesting that to my surprise I found myself using the alienvision as pulses. Two quick taps (on and off) as I entered a room to look for red marines but most of the time I spent in normal mode. Reasons? not sure. Maybe it's too strong a filter of world information. Also no rooms are really that dark. While I found the double tap cool and fun I don't think that's the way it should work as the vision mode should be more useful.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Posts: 1,014Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    yeah, it seems DI kills the server tickrate big time. Completely unplayable after a while
  • SquidgetSquidget Join Date: 2003-06-13 Member: 17334Posts: 192Members
    QUOTE (Bandanna @ Feb 18 2011, 12:10 AM) »
    -I got stuck on the bent metal floor sheeting, while I was flaming alien hive. I did not move at all, but when the alien hive died, I somehow teleported in between the sheeting and I couldn't move.


    Glad it's not just me. I filed a bug for this one: http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/t...fter_axing_hive

    QUOTE (Bandanna @ Feb 18 2011, 12:10 AM) »
    ?? - As an alien, kills don't register personal resource points for me. I was stuck having 26 res even after killing multiple marines.


    Kills don't give personal points (plasma). Never have, as far as I know. They only give you score on the scoreboard. (If you heard that from NS2HD's vids... yeah, he was wrong about that.)
  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471Posts: 2,107NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation mod
    edited February 2011
    Pros:
    • New sound effects are great.
    • Alien vision mode is cool.
    • Infestation
    • Sentry guides were much needed
    • Comm GUIs look and feel better and faster
    • Scoreboard improvements

    Cons:

    • Scoreboard is improving, more work needed to get it to NS1 level of awesome.
    • No voicecomm GUI or display. It's hard to tell who's talking which inhibits teamwork.
    • Sound cuts out often, or goes mute.
    • NO SQUISHY GORGE WALKING SOUNDS! :~(
    • Marine comm display should show marine health all the time, like in NS1. Even when not specifically selecting marines or squads.
    • Server performance seems to have improved, but still has a ways to go.
    • Alien RTs shouldn't need prior infestation to build. A small radius of infestation should surround them automatically when being built by a drifter.


    I'm sure all of this will be improved in time anyways.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • PersianImm0rtalPersianImm0rtal Join Date: 2010-12-02 Member: 75414Posts: 641Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester
    I still dont get how people enjoy playing this. 99% of the time all servers lag to the point that its not playable.
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