NS2 Progress

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  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Posts: 3,883Members
    edited August 2010
    QUOTE (Harathan @ Aug 21 2010, 12:03 AM) »
    Important fact about Harimau, folks.

    Please. It's hardly news.
    You are one too, though.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • saltybp53saltybp53 Join Date: 2010-07-22 Member: 72675Posts: 259Members
    So we got Shade, Hydra, and Crag(with babblers!) as our new SC, OC, and DC. So does that mean its the marines turn to get stuff? Can't wait to hover without flapping :D
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  • EzekielEzekiel Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3006Posts: 369Members
    QUOTE (saltybp53 @ Aug 21 2010, 11:21 PM) »
    So we got Shade, Hydra, and Crag(with babblers!) as our new SC, OC, and DC. So does that mean its the marines turn to get stuff? Can't wait to hover without flapping :D

    From the issue tracker thing: Implement marine comm ability: Replicate

    /me wonders
  • culpritculprit Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33527Posts: 310Members, Constellation
    In the last interview replicate was described as a way to clone buildings quickly at cost. That way once a turret is built, it could be replicated into another turret very quickly without construction required. It could be done with IPs, comm stations and maybe mobile sieges too.
  • EzekielEzekiel Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3006Posts: 369Members
    oh, that does sound like quite the interesting ability
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Posts: 3,365Members
    Still need MC.

    Also, Marines already get guns. What more do you want? Jetpacks? HEAVY ARMOR????
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  • Baron_Bad_EggBaron_Bad_Egg Join Date: 2004-07-09 Member: 29823Posts: 128Banned
    edited August 2010
    actually i'd like the server-side lag to be fixed instead of awing the morons who see concept art and flip out... concept art on an alpha.. half the people who bought the alpha can't play... ###### babblers, make the game TESTABLE

    the fact that an additional person needed to be hired JUST NOW is a bit scary.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • DecipherDecipher Join Date: 2003-06-19 Member: 17512Posts: 45Members
    edited August 2010
    QUOTE (Baron_Bad_Egg @ Aug 21 2010, 11:33 PM) »
    actually i'd like the server-side lag to be fixed instead of awing the morons who see concept art and flip out... concept art on an alpha.. half the people who bought the alpha can't play... ###### babblers, make the game TESTABLE

    the fact that an additional person needed to be hired JUST NOW is a bit scary.


    Clearly someone who doesnt understand a games development.
    Each game is split into areas, concept art is one persons job, Spark the Engine anothers, Models would be another and maps are likely another again. So while they are perhaps looking at implementing the 'Crag' there is likely another developer working side by side on the lagg issues.

    Infact if you look at the progression from release, its gone completely from unplayable where it was impossible to shoot a moving object. After the latest patch lagg was incredibly better and you can kill eachother although its still not the easiest of task and the marine wins more often than not.
    Given the progression we have seen in what 22 days? Its fairly safe to say in the next 4-6 weeks you will have your wish.

    Remember this is an 'Alpha' not a 'Beta' or a completed game. You pre-ordered a game which is still probably 6+ months off release, but as an incentive offered the ability to join the alpha. Treat it as that. After each patch jump in, have some fun with everything, find out any problems. Report them on Getsatisfaction and wait. When you see it reach Beta then I think its fair for players to be upset by significant problems.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • zexzex Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Posts: 796Members
    edited August 2010
    QUOTE (Decipher @ Aug 22 2010, 04:59 AM) »
    Clearly someone who doesnt understand a games development.
    Each game is split into areas, concept art is one persons job, Spark the Engine anothers, Models would be another and maps are likely another again. So while they are perhaps looking at implementing the 'Crag' there is likely another developer working side by side on the lagg issues.


    In a commercial studio with >100 employees, yes. a tiny indie studio with <10 people is a totally different situatiion.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    edited August 2010
    QUOTE (zex @ Aug 22 2010, 06:38 AM) »
    In a commercial studio with >100 employees, yes. a tiny indie studio with <10 people is a totally different situatiion.


    No in any situation.

    Being multiskilled is really very difficult, not many people can do it and fewer still ever learn.

    Artists generally can't do anything other than art, and it takes a really good artist to be able to do every sort of art. Animators especially tend to be almost exclusively animators because animation is amazingly difficult to do right. Modelling environments is different and (I think) easier than doing characters, and level designers usually spread a bit into environment art as well.

    Similarly, on the programming side, you have AI which is a discipline in and of itself, physics code requires you to basically be a physicist, code to support animations would require knowledge of animation, code to do networking requires a knowledge of network engineering. And there's also the simple fact that in a very complex program most of the people on the team won't be familiar with all of the code.

    The very few people who can do everything well tend to be the people in charge of everything, and they also tend to be pretty rich because someone who can do that gets paid a fortune because they're so valuable.

    Division of labour is neccesary in any development team, because you can't simply shift anyone to do anything at any time.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • CrispixCrispix Join Date: 2007-01-10 Member: 59543Posts: 423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (Baron_Bad_Egg @ Aug 22 2010, 12:33 AM) »
    I like to cry lots, and don't keep up with the fact that there is a progress page that shows that lag issues are being fixed. I also have no idea what an Alpha is but clearly I should know that Alpha's are most likely for bug testing and implementing new content to reach Beta stage. I should also let others know that crying on the forums just makes you look foolish.

    Thanks.


    Fixed.
    image
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Posts: 3,883Members
    I like that you actually spent time re-writing his post, Crispix.
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  • InsaneInsane Anomaly Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 605Posts: 3,817Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester admin
    QUOTE (zex @ Aug 22 2010, 05:38 AM) »
    In a commercial studio with >100 employees, yes. a tiny indie studio with <10 people is a totally different situatiion.


    We have different people working on gameplay and engine code respectively.
  • zexzex Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Posts: 796Members
    edited August 2010
    I don't doubt that; but the idea that everyone in a small game dev studio is a specialist rather than a generalist is extremely naive. In a small studio you can have an artist creating concept art and then modeling that character and then rigging/animating that character, whereas in a large studio each of those tasks would have its own artist. The same artist that does character modeling could also do environment modeling and then move on to UI artwork. Likewise with programmers, the same programmer can code physics or AI or UI functionality with no problem - this is a common thing, it's not some mystical ability to work across disciplines, in fact it's an essential skill for game dev careerists. In a company with only a handful of programmers, if one of them is tasked with coding pathfinding AI and he says "no, I only code to support animations" his ass would be canned instantly.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • InkInk Join Date: 2009-08-15 Member: 68499Posts: 261Members
    I love the progress page, best thing i have ever seen for a game.

    Everytime i look at it more and more things are just getting fixed/added/adressed.

    Looks like the next patch is gonna be another big one with lots of fixes and additions.
  • InsaneInsane Anomaly Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 605Posts: 3,817Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester admin
    QUOTE (zex @ Aug 22 2010, 11:09 PM) »
    In a small studio you can have an artist creating concept art and then modeling that character and then rigging/animating that character, whereas in a large studio each of those tasks would have its own artist. The same artist that does character modeling could also do environment modeling and then move on to UI artwork. Likewise with programmers, the same programmer can code physics or AI or UI functionality with no problem


    We have separate people doing almost all of those things.

    We try to be as versatile as possible, but things like concept art and character animation are completely different skill sets.
  • zexzex Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Posts: 796Members
    "Almost all" eh? Yes, digital art and digital animation are different skills, but it's also more likely than not that an artist who is competant at animation has also studied 2d art in the course of getting a college degree - any decent program will teach art fundamentals in addition to 3d graphics tools. In fact the animation "specialists" that I know are also some of the best illustrators that I know.
  • HarathanHarathan Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72845Posts: 96Members
    QUOTE (zex @ Aug 23 2010, 08:56 AM) »
    "Almost all" eh? Yes, digital art and digital animation are different skills, but it's also more likely than not that an artist who is competant at animation has also studied 2d art in the course of getting a college degree - any decent program will teach art fundamentals in addition to 3d graphics tools. In fact the animation "specialists" that I know are also some of the best illustrators that I know.


    Oh look Zex is back. And whats he up to this time? Ah, trying to tell the Devs how to run their game studio. Why am I not suprised?
    in absentis sapientia, vino evalesco
  • InsaneInsane Anomaly Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 605Posts: 3,817Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester admin
    All of that is true, but it isn't the case at UWE, which is what this conversation has been about. Most of us are quite focused on specific areas of the game. There's too much that needs to be done to really be able to get away with having a few people hopping around different areas of development - we benefit more from people focusing on specific tasks.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    That and it's simply that not everyone can do everything, it has nothing to do with 'oh I don't want to do this' and more 'I have no idea how to do this'.

    Take me, I can do level design and environment art, but can't model characters or animate. I've studied all of them but characters and animation are simply far harder to learn, I also I can't draw. On the flipside I find environment art and level design very easy and can do them quite well.

    Everyone has their natural talents and natural areas of inability, it's stupid to take someone with no experience or talent for a certain job and get them to do it when you could (and should if you did your scheduling right) be using them in their area of expertise.

    You could pay a fortune to hire a team of omnidisciplinary savant developers and just get them to do whatever you feel like doing, but it's much cheaper, easier, and efficient to hire a team of specialists and plan your development out so that they all work at their assigned areas and finish together.

    At least that's what I got taught in games production. Having lots of skills makes you more employable, but you generally expect to be paid for all the things you're doing, a company can either pay you say £30k a year to do two jobs, or they can hire two people who are specialists in single areas, and pay them say £20k a year each but get twice as much work done because there's two of them, and probably at higher quality. Much smarter.
  • WhiteZeroWhiteZero That Guy Join Date: 2004-06-24 Member: 29511Posts: 844Members, Constellation
    Woah, progress page got cleared out. We must be getting a patch today. :D
  • TurbosniglenTurbosniglen Join Date: 2010-08-13 Member: 73607Posts: 37Members
    edited August 2010
    A bunch of "Accepted" just disappeared?

    Ninjad; what above post said.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • EzekielEzekiel Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3006Posts: 369Members
    I guess that's just because they only stay on there for x time when accepted.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    Also disable shadow casting on objects = awesome.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Posts: 2,267Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Community Dev Team
    from what i have seen, the progress gets cleared every monday, to show the tasks of the new week.
    Ollj: "ns_napo, the first good custom map ever" ns_napo
  • InkInk Join Date: 2009-08-15 Member: 68499Posts: 261Members
    QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Aug 23 2010, 02:14 PM) »
    Also disable shadow casting on objects = awesome.



    This is a GODSEND for my 6800 ultra.


    I should be able to play with a good 20+ fps since r_shadows false boosted it from like 2 all the way to a solid 15

    Now that all shadows cast can be disabled i should get an amazing fps.


  • zexzex Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Posts: 796Members
    QUOTE (Insane @ Aug 23 2010, 12:33 PM) »
    All of that is true, but it isn't the case at UWE


    Thank you. I was responding to an incorrect generalization, not making guesses how UWE is structured.
  • AvalonAvalon Join Date: 2007-03-04 Member: 60224Posts: 239Members
    QUOTE (WhiteZero @ Aug 23 2010, 02:52 PM) »
    Woah, progress page got cleared out. We must be getting a patch today. :D


    Doubtful, they'd have the build listed in the progress timeline. However, I do think one is coming within a few days.
  • WhiteZeroWhiteZero That Guy Join Date: 2004-06-24 Member: 29511Posts: 844Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (Avalon @ Aug 23 2010, 01:48 PM) »
    Doubtful, they'd have the build listed in the progress timeline. However, I do think one is coming within a few days.

    So what do we think then? PT errored out and took off all the Accepted tasks?
    I dunno, it seems like a good chance we might get a patch today or tomorrow.
    /hope
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 11,379Forum Admins, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue mod
    edited August 2010
    Too bad we don't have an archive with patchnotenumbers, I'd love to see a big list of finished things image
    Post edited by Unknown User on

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