Suggesting Good Ideas

spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Posts: 3,365Members
or how to avoid getting a ton of rage on your thread
QUOTE (Popenator @ Mar 7 2010, 06:09 PM) »
Due to recent I&S threads becoming the equivalent of chimpanzee poop-slinging contests, I ask of everyone who even thinks about participating in this thread to abide by the following rules, many of which are a reiteration from the official I&S rule set.


In case you haven't noticed, recently we've seen an influx of not only new ideas, but quite a bit of hate for most of those ideas.

The reasons vary from topic to topic. Some are due to bad foresight. Some are due to throwing out an unpolished idea and expecting everyone else to refine it for them. Others try to lift an idea verbatim from a completely different game and plop it into NS2.

I for one believe the more ideas the better. However, many very good ideas can get buried under first-impression hate.


So, here's a few, hopefully helpful, guidelines to follow before posting your idea.
  • Make sure your idea has a purpose, and clearly state it. If it is purely cosmetic, make sure to tell us. If there is a distinct reason, i.e. you feel a certain element is overpowered and this is how you'd like to fix it, mention that.
  • "For the sake of realism" is NOT a valid catch-all reason. There are reasons for realism, and other times when realism can be thrown out the door. Know where that line is. Typically, it's where the realism adds fun/immersion without the cost of fun/gameplay.
  • Please check your post for spelling and grammar. Poor expressions of either make you seem immature and your idea not well-thought out. Good formatting of your original post is also a plus. I personally am more likely to read a well-formatted post.
  • Does your idea fit in the environment we know? i.e., will it fit with the game elements and concepts for NS2 that we know about? Suggesting Space Orks is an example of failing this rule. Also, how will your idea interact with currently known elements? If it's a new weapon, is this a replacement, a modification, a specialized situational item?
  • If your idea worth it? Is the coding time required worth the added fun/complexity?
  • Is your idea unique/recognizable? Being unable to decipher a game element is bad game design, and the devs and the people here know it. So, special arcane details are typically a bad idea. Keep it simple and distinct. A good way to check this is if you can explain the core idea in 2-3 sentences. Also, doing a quick search to make sure it hasn't been suggested before is a good idea. You can also check out the NS2 Idea Map for some particularly stellar concepts/suggestions.
  • If your idea comes under attack, don't give up. Address the concerns. However, a good way to tell that you've lost (i.e. it's a bad idea, please give up) is if you have to keep making up very specific rules and special edge cases about how it would work to address those concerns. Remember, simplicity is good game design.
  • If possible, try to refer back to NS1. Since NS2, while a new game of its own, is based largely on the NS1 gameplay understanding these elements is typically key. Remember, ~1/3 of NS2 is going to be NS1 ported (old), and another ~1/3 will be NS1 elements modified for NS2 (changed). Only ~1/3 is going to be completely new.



And for all you haters, please refer to this thread on basic I&S Forum etiquette.

Keep the ideas coming!
helping bring perspective and learning since the olde days

QUOTE
<jenny> What's the plural of 'Onos'?
<Mexican> For a while, I thought it was 'Oh ######'!


Vote on your Ideas/Suggestions!
http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=125347

Comments

  • PopenatorPopenator Join Date: 2009-08-27 Member: 68617Posts: 79Members
    Valve uses a system wherein plausible ideas are given a trial by QA; are refined in the process.

    The "Response of the Eye" suggestion was given because I found that running between houses in Bad Company 2 trying to avoid bullets and freezing to death was a ###### FANTASTIC addition to the game.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Posts: 3,365Members
    QUOTE (Popenator @ Mar 7 2010, 07:27 PM) »
    Valve uses a system wherein plausible ideas are given a trial by QA; are refined in the process.

    The "Response of the Eye" suggestion was given because I found that running between houses in Bad Company 2 trying to avoid bullets and freezing to death was a ###### FANTASTIC addition to the game.


    And I've responded in that thread. I just used your quote because it definitely sums up the current trend of entrenched jerks saying NS1 was god's holy work + really poorly thought out ideas = RAGE!!!!
    helping bring perspective and learning since the olde days

    QUOTE
    <jenny> What's the plural of 'Onos'?
    <Mexican> For a while, I thought it was 'Oh ######'!


    Vote on your Ideas/Suggestions!
    http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=125347
  • Battle-BugBattle-Bug Join Date: 2010-02-11 Member: 70523Posts: 261Members
    The truth is that there should be no rage. Every person should reread their text before submitting it to see if it is hateful or not.

    Posting hateful messages are inappropriate. I define trolling as "anything written to provoke a negative emotional reaction." There should be no provoking, no negativity, and no emotional reactions. Imagine that this forum is a board meeting and your boss is there. I'm trying to say that everyone needs to conduct them self professionally.
  • ehshoehsho Join Date: 2009-11-04 Member: 69264Posts: 24Members
    edited March 2010
    I am thinking people should stop expecting only the nicest people who only agree on their fantastic ideas. Not everything will be liked, so putting in rules( pope/battlebug ) about how to only agree and never disagree with their ideas will only help people disregard their ideas. If you only want people to agree with you instead of everyone elses thoughts of your idea, then it's probably a terrible idea.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Battle-BugBattle-Bug Join Date: 2010-02-11 Member: 70523Posts: 261Members
    QUOTE (ehsho @ Mar 7 2010, 09:20 PM) »
    I am thinking people should stop expecting only the nicest people who only agree on their fantastic ideas. Not everything will be liked, so putting in rules( pope/battlebug ) about how to only agree and never disagree with their ideas will only help people disregard their ideas. If you only want people to agree with you instead of everyone elses thoughts of your idea, then it's probably a terrible idea.

    You are mistaken. I don't tell people they can't disagree. I only tell people they can't be rude. Here is my actual disclaimer:

    Note: Please keep all posts objective and constructive. It is ok not to like this suggestion, but it is not ok to be outright rude. If you don't like this suggestion, then please explain what it is exactly you don't like. It is very much appreciated if you provide alternatives to make this idea acceptable.
  • Voyager IVoyager I Join Date: 2009-11-02 Member: 69222Posts: 243Members
    edited March 2010
    QUOTE (Battle-Bug @ Mar 8 2010, 04:13 AM) »
    Imagine that this forum is a board meeting and your boss is there. I'm trying to say that everyone needs to conduct them self professionally.


    If someone came to work with consistently bad ideas, they would be fired.

    I'm not saying this to "troll" you; I'm merely pointing out that bad input is going to get you negative reactions.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Posts: 1,206Members, Constellation
    /sign OP

    and not just ideas, but posts as well. Use the 'preview' functionality in conjunction with at least 5 seconds of thought.
    "Why can i never be a SKUL or an ONOS why am i always a REIN?" - me, NS 1.0
    When you won't do it for support... Do It For Black Armour
    ns nostalgia • missing: pc gaming
  • HeymanHeyman Join Date: 2005-03-29 Member: 46895Posts: 406Members
    I think I'm going to quote the OP quite a bit in the future.
  • Battle-BugBattle-Bug Join Date: 2010-02-11 Member: 70523Posts: 261Members
    QUOTE (Voyager I @ Mar 8 2010, 01:49 AM) »
    If someone came to work with consistently bad ideas, they would be fired.

    Bad ideas are part of the idea generation process. I've taken classes that focus on idea generation. I can't remember one instructor saying "don't pitch bad ideas." Lots of bad ideas can either be fixed or they can spawn new ideas.

    Also, what is the worst thing that can happen because of a bad idea when people conduct themselves appropriately? It is not used. What is the worst thing that can happen because of a bad idea when people don't conduct themselves appropriately? The idea is not used and trolling, flaming, etc. If we compare the two scenarios, we see that they both had the same result in that the idea was not used. However, one had a neutral effect and one had a negative effect. Which would you choose?
  • TweadleTweadle Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39686Posts: 855Members, NS2 Map Tester
    The worst thing that can happen is that it is used, duh.
  • Battle-BugBattle-Bug Join Date: 2010-02-11 Member: 70523Posts: 261Members
    QUOTE (Tweadle @ Mar 8 2010, 10:26 AM) »
    The worst thing that can happen is that it is used, duh.

    It is up to the developers to decide that. That is above us. I'm going to take the position that the developers can do no wrong and say that any idea they select, therefore, must not be a bad one.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Posts: 2,710Members
    QUOTE (Tweadle @ Mar 8 2010, 04:26 PM) »
    The worst thing that can happen is that it is used, duh.

    People getting more fed up with I&S is another. Good ideas don't get enough attention when there are bad ones for easy flaming. I don't know if anyone is up for posting those better ones nowadays though, the monthly sniper rifle discussion might have done its trick already.
  • TweadleTweadle Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39686Posts: 855Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited March 2010
    QUOTE (battle-bug)
    I'm going to take the position that the developers can do no wrong and say that any idea they select, therefore, must not be a bad one.


    I'm going to take the position that you're totally wrong and that developers are human too. I'm also going to take the position that bacillus has reiterated another bad thing that can come of making random suggestions over and over.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Voyager IVoyager I Join Date: 2009-11-02 Member: 69222Posts: 243Members
    QUOTE (Battle-Bug @ Mar 8 2010, 05:49 PM) »
    It is up to the developers to decide that. That is above us. I'm going to take the position that the developers can do no wrong and say that any idea they select, therefore, must not be a bad one.


    That's why every game ever made has been perfect in every regard, right? You really need to do some growing up if you think throwing out unrefined ideas every time your brain has a bowel movement and blindly appealing to the infallibility of the developers is constructive.
  • KungFuDiscoMonkeyKungFuDiscoMonkey Creator of ns_altair Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14555Posts: 2,587Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos mod
    While the OP has good intentions, this illustrates why we prefer people not try to moderate their own threads (or forums). Things tend to go off track and people start bickering among themselves.

    http://www.unknownworlds.com/community
    QUOTE
    Please behave politely at all times.
    毎日勉強したら上手になるよ
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