My Opinion On Beta 4 Combat And Possible Fixes
CountZero
Join Date: 2004-02-04 Member: 26071Members
Join Date: 2004-02-04 Member: 26071Members
<div class="IPBDescription">not that you have to care what i think</div> I haven't gotten around to much classic with the new beta but I have clocked quite a few hours of combat with the new rules on a few servers.
Please note that my ideas are 1) trying to stay in tune with the idea of fast paced short combat games and 2) try to do some balance without changing anything that would affect classic balance.
First issue I have (and apparently a lot of people also have) is the spawning one at a time. I understand the purpose is of course to make combat a fast paced game. The problem isn't spawning in one at a time, the problem is that once the marine team (and to a lesser extent the aliens) has been completely wiped out the game becomes spawn camp which is just plain not fun and just takes up time with at least half the server being bored. So what I would do to fix it (I'd like your opinions on these minus flames) is the following:
1) Remove CC. This serves no purpose but to drag out the games. The new alien goal is to kill all of the marines. With a goal like that you could probably even bring back wave spawning and not overtly lengthen the games.
2) Remove the gorge. Gorges are almost entirely defense and in a quick game only server to lengthen the game by healing the hive and webbing the hive.
There are some other changes that I believe would go well with those.
3) Welder becomes standard equipment. Aliens can still heal at hive and get armor back at hive, without a CC to repair the welder just isn't worth a point.
Assuming welders were standard the following balances might be needed.
a)HA requires armor 3 and still costs 2 points. Thats a massive expenditure but with every marine capable of putting a HA back to 260 armor there has to be a draw back.
b)Resupply becomes resupply ammo and resupply health as two seperate abilities. With all marines having welders all marines can repair the armory which provides endless ammo and health therefore you can have both resupplies but at a cost. And I believe this also means a HA with a) implemented would not be able to have both resupplies, i could be wrong though.
4) Focus costs 2 points. Ok I lied, not all of these were about shortening games but I think with the goal being wipe out the marines focus becomes that much more powerful. Combined with the fact that skulks can currently get focus 1.5 minutes into the game without even engaging in combat I believe a two point cost is justified. It would also delay the current monster that is the focus fade. I don't think this will dramatically extend the game but would at least give the marines a chance of getting some armor upgrades before the focus starts shredding them all.
5) With gorge gone bye bye 3rd hive ability costs 1 again. Xeno is annoying to be sure but if that player ever goes to a higher life form the 3rd hive ability just isn't that great. Not to mention a xenoing skulk ends up in the spawning queue anyways pushing back anyone else that dies after them and delaying their own progression.
6) If all the aliens are wiped out then the hive starts damaging itself, much like aliens do on classic when all hives are gone. This is just to hopefully keep spawncamping from the marines to a minimum.
Please note that my ideas are 1) trying to stay in tune with the idea of fast paced short combat games and 2) try to do some balance without changing anything that would affect classic balance.
First issue I have (and apparently a lot of people also have) is the spawning one at a time. I understand the purpose is of course to make combat a fast paced game. The problem isn't spawning in one at a time, the problem is that once the marine team (and to a lesser extent the aliens) has been completely wiped out the game becomes spawn camp which is just plain not fun and just takes up time with at least half the server being bored. So what I would do to fix it (I'd like your opinions on these minus flames) is the following:
1) Remove CC. This serves no purpose but to drag out the games. The new alien goal is to kill all of the marines. With a goal like that you could probably even bring back wave spawning and not overtly lengthen the games.
2) Remove the gorge. Gorges are almost entirely defense and in a quick game only server to lengthen the game by healing the hive and webbing the hive.
There are some other changes that I believe would go well with those.
3) Welder becomes standard equipment. Aliens can still heal at hive and get armor back at hive, without a CC to repair the welder just isn't worth a point.
Assuming welders were standard the following balances might be needed.
a)HA requires armor 3 and still costs 2 points. Thats a massive expenditure but with every marine capable of putting a HA back to 260 armor there has to be a draw back.
b)Resupply becomes resupply ammo and resupply health as two seperate abilities. With all marines having welders all marines can repair the armory which provides endless ammo and health therefore you can have both resupplies but at a cost. And I believe this also means a HA with a) implemented would not be able to have both resupplies, i could be wrong though.
4) Focus costs 2 points. Ok I lied, not all of these were about shortening games but I think with the goal being wipe out the marines focus becomes that much more powerful. Combined with the fact that skulks can currently get focus 1.5 minutes into the game without even engaging in combat I believe a two point cost is justified. It would also delay the current monster that is the focus fade. I don't think this will dramatically extend the game but would at least give the marines a chance of getting some armor upgrades before the focus starts shredding them all.
5) With gorge gone bye bye 3rd hive ability costs 1 again. Xeno is annoying to be sure but if that player ever goes to a higher life form the 3rd hive ability just isn't that great. Not to mention a xenoing skulk ends up in the spawning queue anyways pushing back anyone else that dies after them and delaying their own progression.
6) If all the aliens are wiped out then the hive starts damaging itself, much like aliens do on classic when all hives are gone. This is just to hopefully keep spawncamping from the marines to a minimum.
Comments
2) Remove the gorge. Gorges are almost entirely defense and in a quick game only server to lengthen the game by healing the hive and webbing the hive.
There are some other changes that I believe would go well with those.
3) Welder becomes standard equipment. Aliens can still heal at hive and get armor back at hive, without a CC to repair the welder just isn't worth a point.
Assuming welders were standard the following balances might be needed.
a)HA requires armor 3 and still costs 2 points. Thats a massive expenditure but with every marine capable of putting a HA back to 260 armor there has to be a draw back.
b)Resupply becomes resupply ammo and resupply health as two seperate abilities. With all marines having welders all marines can repair the armory which provides endless ammo and health therefore you can have both resupplies but at a cost. And I believe this also means a HA with a) implemented would not be able to have both resupplies, i could be wrong though.
4) Focus costs 2 points. Ok I lied, not all of these were about shortening games but I think with the goal being wipe out the marines focus becomes that much more powerful. Combined with the fact that skulks can currently get focus 1.5 minutes into the game without even engaging in combat I believe a two point cost is justified. It would also delay the current monster that is the focus fade. I don't think this will dramatically extend the game but would at least give the marines a chance of getting some armor upgrades before the focus starts shredding them all.
5) With gorge gone bye bye 3rd hive ability costs 1 again. Xeno is annoying to be sure but if that player ever goes to a higher life form the 3rd hive ability just isn't that great. Not to mention a xenoing skulk ends up in the spawning queue anyways pushing back anyone else that dies after them and delaying their own progression.
6) If all the aliens are wiped out then the hive starts damaging itself, much like aliens do on classic when all hives are gone. This is just to hopefully keep spawncamping from the marines to a minimum. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) I like.
2) I like.
3) Methinks they should remove the weilder all together in CO.
4) Bad.
5) Keep it how they are.
6) Baaad.
Lerks should take some adrenaline not none. k My 2 cents...
The gorge and welder should go, as should the GL and onos. The Fade is also excess to requirements which means the shotty and hmg should not be allowed. Then I think the lerks should be taken out and to counter the marines lose the jet packs, and perhaps HA... yes deinately no HA, zeno and focus are cheap - they should go, as are mines. Also I dont like the maps so they should go to...
perfect.. back to ns_ <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
lvl 3-4 lerks and skulks and so on..
I'd love to see a lvl0 vs lvl0 combat though, thats the way combat should be imho.