Lag Exploiters

FlyingcowFlyingcow Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41451Posts: 91Members
Im not sure how many people do this, but i have seen interp commands and scripts posted on numerous ns forums....

itsa really unfair exploit because it practically makes the exploiter invincible. A non-default interp variable will cause a player's hitboxes to lag behind their player models.


the interp command should be disabled in the next patch.

+ any other command that allows someone to lag exploit


thankyou
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Comments

  • RobertoRoberto Join Date: 2003-03-16 Member: 14591Posts: 340Members, Constellation
    interp was unlocked by the team on purpose, and unless they use another method to lock it back up, people will just get around it anyway.

    I thought interp only affected the client.
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  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Posts: 1,435Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver
    edited February 2005
    It does only effect the client and this guy is telling bs by refering to interp commands.
    But he is right, that you can exploit lag.

    I'm sometimes called a warper because of my shared connection,
    that happens if your upload-bandwith doesn't fit anymore to your netsettings due to p2p-ing, e.g., by another user or yourself.

    Edit: I dunno if special scripts/programms can manipulate your upload and cause you to lag by pressing a key, but i really can imagine that it's possible.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Posts: 3,669Members
    Sigh. People just like to throw "scripts" into their complaints because it they think it sounds cool, I suppose. confused-fix.gif
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  • FlounderFlounder Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31656Posts: 177Members
    They should ban all scripters and hackers.
  • BJayDBJayD Join Date: 2002-09-02 Member: 1263Posts: 127Members
    "They" should ban the uninformed.
  • airyKairyK Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11126Posts: 497Members
    The problem isnt any kind of script or interp command. It is usually just someone who is using bt or some other form of p2p software and playing at the same time. It could also be from misconfigured rates: rate 3500 with cl_updaterate and cmdrate at 100. Or someone with highrates playing from a large distance - european playing on a west coast US server.

    As for interp:

    QUOTE

    Taken from http://www.usaklig.net/rates.html
    ex_interp:

    Before I begin, Webster defines interpolate as the following:

    Main Entry: in·ter·po·late
    3 : to estimate values of (a function) between two known values
    intransitive senses : to make insertions (as of estimated values)

    You cannot be perfectly synced with the server at every instant in time because you only receive a finite amount of updates per second. For example:

    This graphic depicts a linear interpolation of a circle. As the number of data points (updates) increases, the interpolated figure becomes more accurate. In Counter-Strike you could consider this to be a player’s position over the span of one second. The server’s view in this case would be a perfect circle. The client has to interpolate between two “true” packets.

    This is where ex_interp comes in. A small increment of time exists in between each update that is left to half-life’s prediction engine. ex_interp sets the amount of time (in seconds) to interpolate in between each successive update. In the figure above, these small time intervals correspond to the straight edges of the figure. Because interpolation is done client side, it is not perfectly consistent with the server’s view of the game. Nothing is a substitute for actual updates from the server, but interpolation generally does a good job.


    basically meaning, interp is what you see not exactly what the server is seeing.
    Clan 2iD- Part of the Half-Life gaming community since Fall of 2000
  • DarkFrostDarkFrost Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15154Posts: 1,417Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    edited February 2005
    Interp compliments updaterate, and brings hitboxes closer inline with the models... not the other way about ><

    I cant remember the actual timing, but on the assumption its miliseconds, interp 0.1 means every 0.1 milisec you update player positions, lower means the players are in a closer to true location, the animations get a bit jerky tho.

    If you don't like interp, email valve, ask them exactly what it does.... they wouldn't put something into their multiplayer games that makes people invincible... come on, is this a case of being beat alot and needing something, anything to blame?!

    *Edit, the post above is what i get for going and making a cup of tea while in the reply screen*
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Posts: 3,669Members
    QUOTE (Flounder @ Feb 17 2005, 02:47 AM)
    They should ban all scripters and hackers.

    /me gets rolled-up newspaper
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    QUOTE (Snidely)
    I guess their slogan should be "with a Trojan, sex will last as long as the Trojan War, with only a fraction of the eroticism".
  • FlyingcowFlyingcow Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41451Posts: 91Members
    edited February 2005
    read

    http://www.foom.net/fortressfiles/netcode.htm

    most of the interp scripts used a value of .4
    and if interp works the way you say, then making it higher will cause lag
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • obuhobuh Not Quite Smart at NS Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15072Posts: 701Members, Constellation
    QUOTE
    Netcode issue, ex_interp and other haks


    lol

    ex_interp determines the time the client interpolates between server updates. Oh my such 'haks'.
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  • SizerSizer Join Date: 2003-10-08 Member: 21531Posts: 368Members
    edited February 2005
    If interp is such an innocent cvar, then why were most intep values banned in many TFC leagues?
    Were all those admins who were playing TFC before NS was around misinformed too?
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Posts: 1,435Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver
    Sizer, i know the problem from cs, too, where interp was also considered as an exploit.
    Even in ns, afaik, it was considered as an exploit and locked, but ns-models move faster and many complained about laggy/misplaced hitboxes.
    Consequently interp was unlocked to give any connection speed and netsettings the possibility of correctly placed hitboxes.
    NS is faster and therefore the advantage due to unlocked interp was much smaller than the problems caused by wrong interp-values that don't fit to the updaterate!

    The only thing i don't understand, why they don't lock interp again and let the game calculate its right values by using ex_interp=1/updaterate, because everyone can change his updaterate until the hitboxes are correctly placed.
    If server doesn't send as much updates as set, you have to lower your updaterate ingame and ex_interp will be changed by the game again.
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  • Black_Hawk_VSBlack_Hawk_VS Join Date: 2003-03-13 Member: 14478Posts: 115Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (obuh @ Feb 17 2005, 10:08 AM)
    QUOTE
    Netcode issue, ex_interp and other haks


    lol

    ex_interp determines the time the client interpolates between server updates. Oh my such 'haks'.

    Of course, it is easier to complaim about hacks then to improver skill.


    From reading the article, I get the opposite impression. They call it an exploit because you sacrifice quality (getting a bit jumper game) for preformance. It says that is with a lower number, you get updates from the server much faster, and therefor the data you have is more correct. Since when is having the correct information for the server a exploit?

    What next, everyone must us identical connections, have the same ping, and use the same computers so that everyone is the same? And when do we start telling people that they have to dummy down their aim, because if the have better aim, the they have an unfair advantage....ohhh wait, must people call those people hackers as a way of keeping thier ego up
  • Garet_JaxGaret_Jax Join Date: 2003-02-23 Member: 13870Posts: 832Members, Constellation
    A couple of months ago I changed to an old config.cfg that had interp in it. I think it had these settings:

    alias "interp" "ex_interp"
    "interp 0.05"

    After joining a server, I found the PG had an incredible amount of "phase" sprites coming out of it- dropping my frame-rate to less than 1. Furthermore, the shotgun would not work- it would cycle through the reload animation and sound.

    After asking about on IRC, I was told it was a recent attempt by the NS team to stop interp.

    Huh?
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  • ubermenschubermensch Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11692Posts: 493Banned
    QUOTE (BJayD @ Feb 17 2005, 06:13 AM)
    "They" should ban the uninformed.

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  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Posts: 1,206Members, Constellation
    ex_interp does affect client side. and client side does affect server side.
    (i.e. altered values for ex_interp can cause players to display in proximity on your client, when on their client they are a good distance away. You bite them, then on their screen it appears as a "50 foot" bite, gg another victim of ex_interping.)
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  • todd1Oktodd1Ok Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28018Posts: 342Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    I would just like to comment and say that ex_interp is a cause for alot of the autobot/speed/10000 bites persecond Hacks going around atm. the hack jams interop up high, spams the server with commands, drops it back down, server responds by allowing you to knife a hive 1000 times in one second. pretty simple eh? you'd think, takes quite a bit of coding to do.

    always nice to understand how the enemy works.

    just a side comment.
  • a_civiliana_civilian Likes seeing numbers Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12041Posts: 2,905Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
    ex_interp cannot be set higher than 0.1...
    some obscure NS gameplay data (added back to signature since people still ask for it from time to time)
  • FlyingcowFlyingcow Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41451Posts: 91Members
    i think people use .04 for the lag exploit
  • BobTheJanitorBobTheJanitor Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24228Posts: 1,718Members, NS1 Playtester
    A looooong time ago there were exploits involving the interp commands that would throw hitboxes out of whack. We're talking long before steam even. Nowadays you'll only get two things by messing with your interp. Either jerky player models from your point of view, or slightly better hit registration if you know how to properly tweak your netcode settings in all areas, not just interp. Other than that, there's nothing exploitable about it. The problems that made it exploitable were, as far as I know, coded out of the half-life base code years ago.
  • RBSRBS Join Date: 2004-04-26 Member: 28209Posts: 59Members
    edited February 2005
    You can't really exploit with it anymore as far as I know. If you use ex_interp 0 it sets it to what it should be based on your updaterate. Unfortunately, models move really fast in NS and when setting interp lower they CAN become jerky, this makes it tough to keep track of the faster moving units in the game. I just leave it at default and learn to deal with bites/bullets not registering every so often.

    Oh, and I could definately see people using "lag exploits" by fooling with their rates.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • BJayDBJayD Join Date: 2002-09-02 Member: 1263Posts: 127Members
    edited February 2005
    QUOTE (Sizer @ Feb 17 2005, 04:50 PM)
    If interp is such an innocent cvar, then why were most intep values banned in many TFC leagues?
    Were all those admins who were playing TFC before NS was around misinformed too?


    Nicely answered by:

    QUOTE (BobTheJanitor @ Feb 18 2005, 05:59 AM)

    A looooong time ago there were exploits involving the interp commands that would throw hitboxes out of whack. We're talking long before steam even. Nowadays you'll only get two things by messing with your interp. Either jerky player models from your point of view, or slightly better hit registration if you know how to properly tweak your netcode settings in all areas, not just interp. Other than that, there's nothing exploitable about it. The problems that made it exploitable were, as far as I know, coded out of the half-life base code years ago.


    It's all a matter of time, "all those admins who were playing TFC before NS was around".

    Back then, I believe there were possible ways to exploit ex_interp. We aren't back then anymore though but people often get stuck in their ways, including league admins. Some of the community failed to pick up on the fact that Valve fixed these problems a while ago.

    These days, correct use of this command simply makes the models on the client screen correlate more accurately with where the servers knows them to be, assuming that the rest of the network commands are also correctly used.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Posts: 7,661Members
    QUOTE (Garet Jax @ Feb 17 2005, 04:56 PM)
    A couple of months ago I changed to an old config.cfg that had interp in it. I think it had these settings:

    alias "interp" "ex_interp"
    "interp 0.05"

    After joining a server, I found the PG had an incredible amount of "phase" sprites coming out of it- dropping my frame-rate to less than 1. Furthermore, the shotgun would not work- it would cycle through the reload animation and sound.

    After asking about on IRC, I was told it was a recent attempt by the NS team to stop interp.

    Huh?

    Way back in June when I still played this game, interp would do that to me also, but I never had problems with my shots registering either, I took lower FPS at phase gates versus laggy hitboxes
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  • NadagastNadagast Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6884Posts: 823Members
    edited February 2005
    QUOTE (todd1Ok @ Feb 17 2005, 11:07 PM)
    I would just like to comment and say that ex_interp is a cause for alot of the autobot/speed/10000 bites persecond Hacks going around atm. the hack jams interop up high, spams the server with commands, drops it back down, server responds by allowing you to knife a hive 1000 times in one second. pretty simple eh? you'd think, takes quite a bit of coding to do.

    always nice to understand how the enemy works.

    just a side comment.

    No. You're wrong.

    Seriously do you just make this crap up?
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Diablo_fxDiablo_fx Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13793Posts: 1,166Members
    QUOTE (Flounder @ Feb 17 2005, 08:47 AM)
    They should ban all scripters and hackers.

    Rolleyes
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  • tjosantjosan Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16374Posts: 1,335Members, Constellation
    edited February 2005
    If cl_updaterate is set to 30, then the client will recieve 30 packages of information per second from the server. ex_interp helps to fill these "gaps", and remove any jerkyness of models you would experience otherwise, by calculating the most probable route of the other player and displaying tha ton your screen.

    ex_interp is reversed proportional to your cl_updaterate, so with a higher updaterate you would want a lower interp to keep the information you recieve as accurate as possible.

    Lowering ex_interp will reduce the amount of "fake" frames that are displayed on your screen, making the information you recieve more accurate. At the same time you're recieving and displaying less updated coordinates than you are capable of, and without ex_interp to fill the gaps other players will appear to jerk around.

    The possible "exploit" involving ex_interp is that if interp is set very high, interpolarisation will make you display other players infront of their actual position, giving you an advantage when for example firing on someone running around a corner (you see him before you should see him)... this is blocked, and ex_interp is capped at max 0.1 like someone said earlier in this thread...

    Of course, this is all based on my experience (not a whole lot) and conclusions drawn from reading guides and descriptions of cvars. I've probably got it all wrong.. :/

    [Edit]
    Something I wonder is what the variables "cl_smoothtime" and "cl_vsmoothing" actually do. Can anyone clear this up for me pretty please?

    My theory is that they are somehow connected to what ex_interp does, and should be changed when you change you interp. I'm not sure how and what they actually do though, and I hate being kept in the dark.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • SpaceMoogle5SpaceMoogle5 Join Date: 2003-06-23 Member: 17643Posts: 237Members, NS1 Playtester
    fixing interp does give you a more "real" target, and thus helps your aim, it doesn't have anything to do on the "defensive"(not getting bit) side. The command that made you harder to hit was cl_rate and it was pretty dang cheap, it is hovever lorked.

    None of these qualify as hacks, just config tweeks, and if there is a config file in NS get used to them being around/used/exploited.

    There however is good news... I saved A BOATLOAD by switcing to geico!!!!11111one

    That is all,

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  • NadagastNadagast Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6884Posts: 823Members
    QUOTE (tjosan @ Feb 18 2005, 11:29 AM)
    If cl_updaterate is set to 30, then the client will recieve 30 packages of information per second from the server. ex_interp helps to fill these "gaps", and remove any jerkyness of models you would experience otherwise, by calculating the most probable route of the other player and displaying tha ton your screen.

    ex_interp is reversed proportional to your cl_updaterate, so with a higher updaterate you would want a lower interp to keep the information you recieve as accurate as possible.

    Lowering ex_interp will reduce the amount of "fake" frames that are displayed on your screen, making the information you recieve more accurate. At the same time you're recieving and displaying less updated coordinates than you are capable of, and without ex_interp to fill the gaps other players will appear to jerk around.

    The possible "exploit" involving ex_interp is that if interp is set very high, interpolarisation will make you display other players infront of their actual position, giving you an advantage when for example firing on someone running around a corner (you see him before you should see him)... this is blocked, and ex_interp is capped at max 0.1 like someone said earlier in this thread...

    Of course, this is all based on my experience (not a whole lot) and conclusions drawn from reading guides and descriptions of cvars. I've probably got it all wrong.. :/

    [Edit]
    Something I wonder is what the variables "cl_smoothtime" and "cl_vsmoothing" actually do. Can anyone clear this up for me pretty please?

    My theory is that they are somehow connected to what ex_interp does, and should be changed when you change you interp. I'm not sure how and what they actually do though, and I hate being kept in the dark.

    No, the old exploit of interp was setting it low, to .01 for example, so that their hitbox would be behind the model. I think it was a bug, you could set it low and aim slightly behind the model and still hit. Now it's fixed, and interp is a totally legit command...
  • tjosantjosan Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16374Posts: 1,335Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (Nadagast @ Feb 18 2005, 12:19 PM)
    QUOTE (tjosan @ Feb 18 2005, 11:29 AM)

    Crap
     

    No, the old exploit of interp was setting it low, to .01 for example, so that their hitbox would be behind the model. I think it was a bug, you could set it low and aim slightly behind the model and still hit. Now it's fixed, and interp is a totally legit command...

    Thanks for correcting me.
  • WakeWake Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Posts: 513Members, Constellation
    I recorded a demo on 02/17 (yesterday) where a player seemed to "store" (i.e. : freeze) for 1/2 seconds then move like he was teleporting and/or realeased something like 10-15 attacks at once.

    One the demo, you can see him empty a shotgun in 1 shortburst, a HMG in 2 shortbursts etc. ...

    As some would call for "speedhack" and so forth, he just ansewered "and be glad i only use this".

    By the symptoms, you can tell that this is a netcode exploit.

    Although this time, the "hack" is obvious, i suppose that more subtlle tunings are more stealthy and just look like "skill".



    Freak out
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