Can you think of any features that could be removed?

MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,342 mod
A decent number of us have ideas for new features in NS2. But can you think of any features that don't really need to be there?
Maybe they:
  • are under/overpowered
  • are awkward to use
  • duplicate some other feature
  • just don't get used much
  • etc.

To get things started:
Rupture - 2 tres to explode a blob of goo that obscures marine vision for a couple of seconds. But only if they happen to be looking at it. It seems a bit too situational and require too much careful placement to be worthwhile.
-/AUS/- PS_Mouse
«134

Comments

  • antouantou France Join Date: 2016-07-24 Member: 220615Members Posts: 14 Auto Verified
    Mouse wrote: »
    Rupture - 2 tres to explode a blob of goo that obscures marine vision for a couple of seconds. But only if they happen to be looking at it. It seems a bit too situational and require too much careful placement to be worthwhile.
    Doesn't it also parasite marines ?

    F0rdPrefectcooliticHandschuh
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 953 Auto Verified
    edited November 2016
    Babblers. Get rid of them already.

    I also think drifters need rework. Back in the day, when they had passive cloak and only enzyme, I used them all the time both for vision and enzyme. Now they are just busy building structures all the time. Meaning the commander no longer actually uses them on the field.

    This is why nobody likes commanding aliens. While marine commanding you're actually an important asset in engagements.

    I do think it's good that marines can punish rapid expanding aliens, by killing their drifters while they are building rts or slowing down their hive expansions. That 8 extra squishy res can often make a big difference.

    But I think the whole alien commanding role would be a lot more interesting, if the drifters weren't such a big requirement in expansion and instead could be used to cast enzyme, mucous or clones during engagements.

    Right now, it's usually too expensive to build a dedicated drifter for casting, unless you're already way ahead. So maybe cutting down the price a little would also be a viable solution. Bump the harvester price to compensate.
    The_Welsh_WizardRedSwordKasharicDilligaf.trixX.Stardog
  • F0rdPrefectF0rdPrefect Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,051 Auto Verified
    SantaClaws wrote: »
    Babblers. Get rid of them already.

    I also think drifters need rework. Back in the day, when they had passive cloak and only enzyme, I used them all the time both for vision and enzyme. Now they are just busy building structures all the time. Meaning the commander no longer actually uses them on the field.

    This is why nobody likes commanding aliens. While marine commanding you're actually an important asset in engagements.

    I do think it's good that marines can punish rapid expanding aliens, by killing their drifters while they are building rts or slowing down their hive expansions. That 8 extra squishy res can often make a big difference.

    But I think the whole alien commanding role would be a lot more interesting, if the drifters weren't such a big requirement in expansion and instead could be used to cast enzyme, mucous or clones during engagements.

    Right now, it's usually too expensive to build a dedicated drifter for casting, unless you're already way ahead. So maybe cutting down the price a little would also be a viable solution. Bump the harvester price to compensate.

    Frankly, I'd go the other way, and untie enzyme/mucous/hallucinations from drifters entirely. It would turn the drifter into a mostly-worker unit with some scouting thrown in. (Passive, sentry like scouting though; you can place a shade somewhere, put a drifter next to it, then forget about them until your minimap shows something.)

    That would probably require some rebalancing, though; making the abilities a little more costly and removing the ability to cast hallucination when no aliens are around should do it, imo.
    aka Vetinari

    Sneaky devils promoted me to Squad 5 Blue and nobody told me
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,529 Auto Verified
    SantaClaws wrote: »
    Babblers. Get rid of them already.

    They are too adorable to be removed.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


    Handschuhmeatmachine
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 492 Auto Verified

    That would probably require some rebalancing, though; making the abilities a little more costly and removing the ability to cast hallucination when no aliens are around should do it, imo.

    One of the more terrible ideas so far: Give hallus a cooldown and let them spawn 2 skulks out of nowhere.

    One of the "we make something op and unfun to play, so we have to rebalance other things for that" ideas.

    Because it is good for alien comms to be able to put marines into an engagement without having any aliens nearby right? And because it is fun to watch the timer go down slooooowlyyyyy to use it again right? And because the change was very much needed right?

    Oh god, how could we even play without the cooldowns.
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,425 Auto Verified
    Don't remove Babblers, buff them!
    For each word spoken, one forgotten. For every thought, a memory rotten. I LIKE POOP
    BeigeAlertcoolitic
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,518 admin

    That would probably require some rebalancing, though; making the abilities a little more costly and removing the ability to cast hallucination when no aliens are around should do it, imo.

    One of the more terrible ideas so far: Give hallus a cooldown and let them spawn 2 skulks out of nowhere.

    One of the "we make something op and unfun to play, so we have to rebalance other things for that" ideas.

    Because it is good for alien comms to be able to put marines into an engagement without having any aliens nearby right? And because it is fun to watch the timer go down slooooowlyyyyy to use it again right? And because the change was very much needed right?

    Oh god, how could we even play without the cooldowns.

    The_Welsh_WizardKashariccoolitic
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,191 Auto Verified
    edited November 2016
    This is a dangerous game to play mouse. Pretty soon you realize most things in the game could be removed with without much impact to the overall gameplay.

    You could remove all of the following with no other changes and have a minimal impact on gameplay:
    • Power surge
    • Nano Shield
    • Catpacks
    • flamethrowers
    • Grenade Launchers
    • MG's
    • Advanced Armory
    • Exo's
    • Arcs
    • Macs
    • Turrets
    • Robo Factory
    • Marine axe
    • Marine rifle bash
    • Powernodes
    • Bonesheild
    • Rupture
    • Drifter abilities
    • Shade hive
    • Crush upgrade
    • Gorge webs
    • Gorge Babblers
    • Skulk Leap
    • Skulk Xenocide
    • Lerk Spores
    • Lerk Umbra
    • Fade Advanced Metabolize
    • Fade Stab
    • Onos Bone shield
    • Onos Stomp
    • Infestation
    I am sure there are more I can't think of at the moment.

    For the record, I find rupture invaluable. It is a great support ability. Use it before your aliens arrive to protect a harvester. Then they have wallhacks. The strength of rupture is not in the vision obscuring but the AOE parasite effect.
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
    F0rdPrefectIronHorseThe_Welsh_WizardYojimbo
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 492 Auto Verified
    lol yea the thread is not good for my health condition.
  • F0rdPrefectF0rdPrefect Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,051 Auto Verified
    Nordic wrote: »
    This is a dangerous game to play mouse. Pretty soon you realize most things in the game could be removed with without much impact to the overall gameplay.

    You could remove all of the following with no other changes and have a minimal impact on gameplay:
    • Exo's
    • Arcs
    • Powernodes
    • Skulk Leap
    • Onos Bone shield
    • Onos Stomp
    • Infestation

    Wait, what?
    aka Vetinari

    Sneaky devils promoted me to Squad 5 Blue and nobody told me
    IronHorseKasharic
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,191 Auto Verified
    edited December 2016
    • Exo's
    • Arcs
    • Powernodes
    • Skulk Leap
    • Onos Bone shield
    • Onos Stomp
    • Infestation
    Wait, what?

    I will refer to the OP.
    Mouse wrote: »
    • are under/overpowered
    • are awkward to use
    • duplicate some other feature
    • just don't get used much
    • etc.

    If you are getting worked up about a few things from my list, then you missed my point. My point was that the line of thought this thread is bringing us on can lead to unexpected results. Just because say leap, exo's babblers, or rifle bash don't need to be there doesn't mean we should get rid of them. There are so many features in NS2 that don't need to be there. That is not a reason by itself to remove them.
    Post edited by Nordic on
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 632 Auto Verified
    tbh the only thing I would like to see being removed because it is OP as shit are all the passive upgrades on the armslab (meaning a1, a2, a3, w1, w2 and w3)

    now before I get killed here:
    I think those upgrades are OP as hell because marines need them everytime to be able to win. They are so OP that the game has been balanced around those upgrades.

    The meta evolved around those upgrades. They are just the core of marine tech and without them nothing will work correctly (unless cheese).

    This is the exact reason why I want to see them removed.
    #blamehefty...
    one last time
    MouseKashariccooliticMe9a
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,518 admin
    Nordic wrote: »
    This is a dangerous game to play mouse. Pretty soon you realize most things in the game could be removed with without much impact to the overall gameplay.

    You could remove all of the following with no other changes and have a minimal impact on gameplay:
    • Power surge
    • Nano Shield
    • Catpacks
    • flamethrowers
    • Grenade Launchers
    • MG's
    • Advanced Armory
    • Exo's
    • Arcs
    • Macs
    • Turrets
    • Robo Factory
    • Marine axe
    • Marine rifle bash
    • Powernodes
    • Bonesheild
    • Rupture
    • Drifter abilities
    • Shade hive
    • Crush upgrade
    • Gorge webs
    • Gorge Babblers
    • Skulk Leap
    • Skulk Xenocide
    • Lerk Spores
    • Lerk Umbra
    • Fade Advanced Metabolize
    • Fade Stab
    • Onos Bone shield
    • Onos Stomp
    • Infestation
    I am sure there are more I can't think of at the moment.

    For the record, I find rupture invaluable. It is a great support ability. Use it before your aliens arrive to protect a harvester. Then they have wallhacks. The strength of rupture is not in the vision obscuring but the AOE parasite effect.

    NS3: Command-line.
    F0rdPrefectcooliticIronHorse.trixX.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,191 Auto Verified
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    NS3: Command-line.

    You could say removing all of those things would remove some of the RTS tech tree mechanics. Those mechanics are not really there though. Certain tech paths are so much better than other tech paths, there is only really one tech path.
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,518 admin
    Mephilles wrote: »
    tbh the only thing I would like to see being removed because it is OP as shit are all the passive upgrades on the armslab (meaning a1, a2, a3, w1, w2 and w3)

    now before I get killed here:
    I think those upgrades are OP as hell because marines need them everytime to be able to win. They are so OP that the game has been balanced around those upgrades.

    The meta evolved around those upgrades. They are just the core of marine tech and without them nothing will work correctly (unless cheese).

    This is the exact reason why I want to see them removed.

    That's actually a nice point. I wish we could make marine upgrades more individual, and more unique than just "more damage", "more armor".
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Members Posts: 435 Auto Verified
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    Mephilles wrote: »
    tbh the only thing I would like to see being removed because it is OP as shit are all the passive upgrades on the armslab (meaning a1, a2, a3, w1, w2 and w3)

    now before I get killed here:
    I think those upgrades are OP as hell because marines need them everytime to be able to win. They are so OP that the game has been balanced around those upgrades.

    The meta evolved around those upgrades. They are just the core of marine tech and without them nothing will work correctly (unless cheese).

    This is the exact reason why I want to see them removed.

    That's actually a nice point. I wish we could make marine upgrades more individual, and more unique than just "more damage", "more armor".

    The most core balance element is aliens getting access to stronger lifeforms.
    Marine upgrades is the counter to that so if you want to remove it you absolutely need to replace it with something else with the same goal, counter Kharaa power creep.

    An idea I have is different types of ammo. Can be researched by com and carried around by players with a limit say max 2 special mag per player, when they die it drops on the floor.
    Could use right mouse button to cycle through ammo types if you get rid of rifle bash that is which I think you should (glitching an animation to get a faster reload is not a healthy mechanic).

    Some ammo types ideas:
    -standard, normal damage no special effect, FREE
    -cryogenic , low damage but crippling bullet
    -electrical, low damage but first target gets a short stun , plus nearby targets gets a small area of effect damage (electric arc stuff)
    -explosive , high damage plus aoe damage
    -fire , normal damage plus damage over time that denies regen
    -piercing, normal damage and passes through several targets with gradually decreasing damage
    -heavy , normal damage but bypass a percentage of armor

    That would add new strategy and more teamplay and also customizability which many people like
    like "oh there's a gorge baricade, commander drop me explosive ammo" kinda thing ya know

    Resistor
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 492 Auto Verified
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    Mephilles wrote: »
    tbh the only thing I would like to see being removed because it is OP as shit are all the passive upgrades on the armslab (meaning a1, a2, a3, w1, w2 and w3)

    now before I get killed here:
    I think those upgrades are OP as hell because marines need them everytime to be able to win. They are so OP that the game has been balanced around those upgrades.

    The meta evolved around those upgrades. They are just the core of marine tech and without them nothing will work correctly (unless cheese).

    This is the exact reason why I want to see them removed.

    That's actually a nice point. I wish we could make marine upgrades more individual, and more unique than just "more damage", "more armor".

    The most core balance element is aliens getting access to stronger lifeforms.
    Marine upgrades is the counter to that so if you want to remove it you absolutely need to replace it with something else with the same goal, counter Kharaa power creep.

    An idea I have is different types of ammo. Can be researched by com and carried around by players with a limit say max 2 special mag per player, when they die it drops on the floor.
    Could use right mouse button to cycle through ammo types if you get rid of rifle bash that is which I think you should (glitching an animation to get a faster reload is not a healthy mechanic).

    Some ammo types ideas:
    -standard, normal damage no special effect, FREE
    -cryogenic , low damage but crippling bullet
    -electrical, low damage but first target gets a short stun , plus nearby targets gets a small area of effect damage (electric arc stuff)
    -explosive , high damage plus aoe damage
    -fire , normal damage plus damage over time that denies regen
    -piercing, normal damage and passes through several targets with gradually decreasing damage
    -heavy , normal damage but bypass a percentage of armor

    That would add new strategy and more teamplay and also customizability which many people like
    like "oh there's a gorge baricade, commander drop me explosive ammo" kinda thing ya know

    In general different ammo types would be nice, but removing upgrades is non sense. More different passive upgrades however would be cool, to have more to choose from.
    .trixX.
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Members Posts: 435 Auto Verified
    Another gameplay feature that would add a whole lot of depth to marine is if when you reload your SMG before emptying the magazine completely you throw away unused rounds.
    It's not for realism tho, it's about pressing the R key being more a conscious choice with advantages and tradeoffs and less automatic.
    ResistorMe9a
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,342 mod
    edited November 2016
    Nordic wrote: »
    This is a dangerous game to play mouse. Pretty soon you realize most things in the game could be removed with without much impact to the overall gameplay.

    You could remove all of the following with no other changes and have a minimal impact on gameplay:
    • Power surge
    • Nano Shield
    • Catpacks
    • flamethrowers
    • Grenade Launchers
    • MG's
    • Advanced Armory
    • Exo's
    • Arcs
    • Macs
    • Turrets
    • Robo Factory
    • Marine axe
    • Marine rifle bash
    • Powernodes
    • Bonesheild
    • Rupture
    • Drifter abilities
    • Shade hive
    • Crush upgrade
    • Gorge webs
    • Gorge Babblers
    • Skulk Leap
    • Skulk Xenocide
    • Lerk Spores
    • Lerk Umbra
    • Fade Advanced Metabolize
    • Fade Stab
    • Onos Bone shield
    • Onos Stomp
    • Infestation
    I am sure there are more I can't think of at the moment.

    For the record, I find rupture invaluable. It is a great support ability. Use it before your aliens arrive to protect a harvester. Then they have wallhacks. The strength of rupture is not in the vision obscuring but the AOE parasite effect.

    It would be more accurate to say, that it's a dangerous game to take out of the sandbox without carefully considering the merits of removing a given feature. But feature creep is a thing and NS2 could do with reducing the number of "wrong" decisions available to players (commanders).
    Post edited by Mouse on
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
    NordicIronHorse
  • F0rdPrefectF0rdPrefect Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,051 Auto Verified
    Nordic wrote: »
    • Exo's
    • Arcs
    • Powernodes
    • Skulk Leap
    • Onos Bone shield
    • Onos Stomp
    • Infestation
    Wait, what?

    I will refer to the OP.
    Mouse wrote: »
    • are under/overpowered
    • are awkward to use
    • duplicate some other feature
    • just don't get used much
    • etc.

    If you are getting worked up about a few things from my list, then you missed my point. My point was that the line of thought this thread is bringing us on can lead to unexpected results. Just because say leap, exo's babblers, or rifle bash don't need to be there doesn't mean we should get rid of them. There are so many features in NS2 that don't need to be there. That is not a reason by itself to remove them.

    Not what I meant. What I meant is that you prefaced that list literally with the line
    Nordic wrote: »
    You could remove all of the following with no other changes and have a minimal impact on gameplay:

    aka Vetinari

    Sneaky devils promoted me to Squad 5 Blue and nobody told me
    IronHorse
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,342 mod
    The most core balance element is aliens getting access to stronger lifeforms.
    Marine upgrades is the counter to that so if you want to remove it you absolutely need to replace it with something else with the same goal, counter Kharaa power creep.

    An idea I have is different types of ammo. Can be researched by com and carried around by players with a limit say max 2 special mag per player, when they die it drops on the floor.
    Could use right mouse button to cycle through ammo types if you get rid of rifle bash that is which I think you should (glitching an animation to get a faster reload is not a healthy mechanic).

    Some ammo types ideas:
    -standard, normal damage no special effect, FREE
    -cryogenic , low damage but crippling bullet
    -electrical, low damage but first target gets a short stun , plus nearby targets gets a small area of effect damage (electric arc stuff)
    -explosive , high damage plus aoe damage
    -fire , normal damage plus damage over time that denies regen
    -piercing, normal damage and passes through several targets with gradually decreasing damage
    -heavy , normal damage but bypass a percentage of armor

    That would add new strategy and more teamplay and also customizability which many people like
    like "oh there's a gorge baricade, commander drop me explosive ammo" kinda thing ya know
    In a sense ammo types are already in the game with the 3 different types of hand grenade.
    http://wiki.unknownworlds.com/ns2/Hand_Grenades

    However they need to be purchased by the marine at an armoury.
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 350 Auto Verified
    Mephilles wrote: »
    tbh the only thing I would like to see being removed because it is OP as shit are all the passive upgrades on the armslab (meaning a1, a2, a3, w1, w2 and w3)

    now before I get killed here:
    I think those upgrades are OP as hell because marines need them everytime to be able to win. They are so OP that the game has been balanced around those upgrades.

    The meta evolved around those upgrades. They are just the core of marine tech and without them nothing will work correctly (unless cheese).

    This is the exact reason why I want to see them removed.

    As you know, i've brought this exact argument up many times in the past. In fact, i'm pretty sure I was the one who convinced you about it XD

    Yeah, I really do with there were alternates to "weapon damage" or "armour buff"... movement speed, reload speed, night vision/infravision goggles, riot shields, more weapon types for functionality, reduced spread etc. it would make the game more varied and allow people to find "their" style of play.
    #blamehefty

    T78j3bi.jpg
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 492 Auto Verified
    Another gameplay feature that would add a whole lot of depth to marine is if when you reload your SMG before emptying the magazine completely you throw away unused rounds.
    It's not for realism tho, it's about pressing the R key being more a conscious choice with advantages and tradeoffs and less automatic.

    This doesn't add any depth, it would be solely a balance change that makes ammo cost more Tres basically.
    Kashariccoolitic
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Members Posts: 435 Auto Verified
    edited November 2016
    Mouse wrote: »
    The most core balance element is aliens getting access to stronger lifeforms.
    Marine upgrades is the counter to that so if you want to remove it you absolutely need to replace it with something else with the same goal, counter Kharaa power creep.

    An idea I have is different types of ammo. Can be researched by com and carried around by players with a limit say max 2 special mag per player, when they die it drops on the floor.
    Could use right mouse button to cycle through ammo types if you get rid of rifle bash that is which I think you should (glitching an animation to get a faster reload is not a healthy mechanic).

    Some ammo types ideas:
    -standard, normal damage no special effect, FREE
    -cryogenic , low damage but crippling bullet
    -electrical, low damage but first target gets a short stun , plus nearby targets gets a small area of effect damage (electric arc stuff)
    -explosive , high damage plus aoe damage
    -fire , normal damage plus damage over time that denies regen
    -piercing, normal damage and passes through several targets with gradually decreasing damage
    -heavy , normal damage but bypass a percentage of armor

    That would add new strategy and more teamplay and also customizability which many people like
    like "oh there's a gorge baricade, commander drop me explosive ammo" kinda thing ya know
    In a sense ammo types are already in the game with the 3 different types of hand grenade.
    http://wiki.unknownworlds.com/ns2/Hand_Grenades

    However they need to be purchased by the marine at an armoury.
    Yea itd have some similarities to hand grenades like shotgun and LMG also have similarities do they overlap in function? No
    Another gameplay feature that would add a whole lot of depth to marine is if when you reload your SMG before emptying the magazine completely you throw away unused rounds.
    It's not for realism tho, it's about pressing the R key being more a conscious choice with advantages and tradeoffs and less automatic.

    This doesn't add any depth, it would be solely a balance change that makes ammo cost more Tres basically.
    The com would only marginaly have to drop more ammo pack; once people understood that they must adjust when to use reload that is.
    Can you explain how does this somehow rule out adding depth? It doesn't.

    Post edited by RevanCorana on
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,191 Auto Verified
    Not what I meant. What I meant is that you prefaced that list literally with the line
    Nordic wrote: »
    You could remove all of the following with no other changes and have a minimal impact on gameplay:

    Exo's, arcs, skulk leap, and onos stomp are all strong and useful. Onos boneshield is not really all that strong anymore but still useful. All of them could be outright removed and the game balanced would not suffer. A few of those are late game tech that is not seen very often. Exo's are late game tech, but even those are seen more often than stomp. None of those are necessary in the game and could be removed as the OP asked. I may have been a little careless by including power nodes and infestation. Those could not simply be removed like the others. Still though, they are not necessary. If you really think about what could be removed, you realize nearly everything can be fairly easily.

    This is entirely besides the point though. Just because they could be removed does not mean they should be just because they can be removed. You need far greater justification than that.

    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
  • Deck_Deck_ Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Members Posts: 274 Auto Verified
    Nordic wrote: »
    Not what I meant. What I meant is that you prefaced that list literally with the line
    Nordic wrote: »
    You could remove all of the following with no other changes and have a minimal impact on gameplay:

    Exo's, arcs, skulk leap, and onos stomp are all strong and useful. Onos boneshield is not really all that strong anymore but still useful. All of them could be outright removed and the game balanced would not suffer. A few of those are late game tech that is not seen very often. Exo's are late game tech, but even those are seen more often than stomp. None of those are necessary in the game and could be removed as the OP asked. I may have been a little careless by including power nodes and infestation. Those could not simply be removed like the others. Still though, they are not necessary. If you really think about what could be removed, you realize nearly everything can be fairly easily.

    This is entirely besides the point though. Just because they could be removed does not mean they should be just because they can be removed. You need far greater justification than that.

    Onos boneshield not that strong anymore? I think this is going too far the other way. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,529 Auto Verified
    Nordic wrote: »
    Not what I meant. What I meant is that you prefaced that list literally with the line
    Nordic wrote: »
    You could remove all of the following with no other changes and have a minimal impact on gameplay:

    Exo's, arcs, skulk leap, and onos stomp are all strong and useful. Onos boneshield is not really all that strong anymore but still useful. All of them could be outright removed and the game balanced would not suffer. A few of those are late game tech that is not seen very often. Exo's are late game tech, but even those are seen more often than stomp. None of those are necessary in the game and could be removed as the OP asked. I may have been a little careless by including power nodes and infestation. Those could not simply be removed like the others. Still though, they are not necessary. If you really think about what could be removed, you realize nearly everything can be fairly easily.

    This is entirely besides the point though. Just because they could be removed does not mean they should be just because they can be removed. You need far greater justification than that.

    I think the purpose here is to remove features that contribute to bloat, especially useless abilities like stab.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,191 Auto Verified
    coolitic wrote: »
    I think the purpose here is to remove features that contribute to bloat, especially useless abilities like stab.
    Which is exactly why I made my post. Supposedly being bloat is not enough justification to remove something.
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
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