Flame throwers?

kendopekendope Join Date: 2013-04-06 Member: 184663Members
When exactly do you use flame throwers besides getting rid of lerk gas/umbra and lighting dark areas up?

To be honest, I sometimes only get flame thrower for the lulz. I get it because i feel cool spraying fire everywhere when i can't hit fades atm with a shotgun.
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Comments

  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    It's not that useful, really. It can clear infestation pretty quickly and can clear away lerk gas, and I believe it also slows energy regen for lifeforms, which actually makes it a bit of a pain for fades. But it's a pretty niche weapon and it never really makes sense to have more than one per team. I never research them in pubs because they cost too much and because roughly half of the players will purchase them and promptly become useless.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    One of the many long standing issues the balance test mod has fixed : the purpose and viability of the flamethrower
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    I love to take a jetpack and a fl and kill almost the entire cyst chain. Its like 30-50 tres not to mention all the stuff that dies once disconnected. I kill every other cyst and it only takes a little puff. I usually go unhindered till I get near a hive.
  • TheriusTherius Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter

    You have to take into account the opportunity cost of getting a flamethrower. You could instead get a shotgun, which will accomplish anything a flamethrower can better, except maybe killing cysts, which is something you shouldn't be doing in the first place. For example, fades losing adrenaline because of a flamethrower is a moot point, because if you had a shotgun, you could have emptied a shell in it doing much more damage.


    james888 said:
    I love to take a jetpack and a fl and kill almost the entire cyst chain. Its like 30-50 tres not to mention all the stuff that dies once disconnected. I kill every other cyst and it only takes a little puff. I usually go unhindered till I get near a hive.


    The aliens are doing something very, very wrong if you can kill cysts unhindered. A flamethrower marine is easy pickings for any lifeform. Again, opportunity cost. If you can kill 30-50 cysts without the aliens doing anything about it, you could have a shotgun instead and kill upgrades, lifeforms and even hives against that same team.

  • TinkerTinker Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14395Members
    Shotguns are good at

    1)Killing cyst chains (JP only, like 30 seconds to clear a full path towards a hive)
    2)Lowering energy of lifeforms (Fades and Onos can't retreat as effectively)
    3)Stopping the gas
    4) Finishing skulks (The skulk will probably kill you without JP, with JP you should be able to kill 2-3 skulks assuming you have fuel when you engage)

    They are more punishing than buying exo's in the sense that you can have 1/3 or 1/2 the team exo and that's OK, but if you have more than 1 flamer per 6-8 people you're probably losing WAY too much strike power for way too little utility.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    ^ You're obviously talking about the legendary "Flamegun", right Tinker :P
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    ^ You're obviously talking about the legendary "Flamegun", right Tinker :P

    Someone pulled a fast one and his brain got tricked.
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited May 2013
    Protip: when clearing cysts with a jp/FT, go to the hive and work outwards, don't work inwards. This gives the aliens much less time to respond to the threat and also means you're travelling towards safety if you need to disengage.
    There is not much more annoying for the alien com than a jp/ft destroying your entire cyst chain, forcing you to focus on recysting for a while after the threat has been eliminated or has run away (only to return muahaha).
  • nezznezz Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174712Members
    kill cysts, that's all you're good for with a flamer.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Therius wrote: »
    You have to take into account the opportunity cost of getting a flamethrower. You could instead get a shotgun, which will accomplish anything a flamethrower can better, except maybe killing cysts, which is something you shouldn't be doing in the first place. For example, fades losing adrenaline because of a flamethrower is a moot point, because if you had a shotgun, you could have emptied a shell in it doing much more damage.<br />

    <br />
    james888 said:<br />
    I love to take a jetpack and a fl and kill almost the entire cyst chain. Its like 30-50 tres not to mention all the stuff that dies once disconnected. I kill every other cyst and it only takes a little puff. I usually go unhindered till I get near a hive.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    The aliens are doing something very, very wrong if you can kill cysts unhindered. A flamethrower marine is easy pickings for any lifeform. Again, opportunity cost. If you can kill 30-50 cysts without the aliens doing anything about it, you could have a shotgun instead and kill upgrades, lifeforms and even hives against that same team.

    A shotgun can't kill cysts as fast as a flamethrower. A jetpack makes travel time fast, your gone before the cyst is even dead.

    The aliens are doing something really wrong. The speed that one can kill cysts with a jp/fl, you are pretty much gone by the time the aliens even do respond. Cysts being killed I think is a low priority in pubs I guess.
  • TheriusTherius Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    @james888

    I did say that flamethrowers do kill cysts faster than a shotgun, but that's the only thing they're good for. And no, a jetpack isn't as fast as to be able to escape a fade who's coming in to check what's going on with the cysts. You're assuming that the alien coming to check on you will see a dead cyst, no marine within a 5 meter radius and go "huh, well better go do something else". It's trivial for the alien to find the marine if he's given his position away by killing cysts, and this is even without drifters.

    And killing cysts should be of extremely low priority, flamethrower or not, comp or pub. Killing mature cysts is absolutely useless in most cases, unless you're clearing a spot to build on yourself. The time and damage you deal to cysts could be spent in dozens of different ways that are more effective.
  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    You can take out unattended hive solo with flamer.
    Say, aliens have 3 hives on docking, and all the action is always at locker and dep. There's nobody at generator, khamm won't bother to fortify it. All you have to do is fly on top of the hive and empty few clips.
    I do this everytime I see aliens got a hive like this, success rate is very high.
  • kespeckespec Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172279Members
    if you are able to massacre cysts unhindered, that means aliens have already lost. another useless role for flamethrower hurray

    its only usefull in a pub server, when you have a 3-5man premade party, with jet packs rushing the hive.
  • kespeckespec Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172279Members
    xen32 wrote: »
    You can take out unattended hive solo with flamer.
    Say, aliens have 3 hives on docking, and all the action is always at locker and dep. There's nobody at generator, khamm won't bother to fortify it. All you have to do is fly on top of the hive and empty few clips.
    I do this everytime I see aliens got a hive like this, success rate is very high.

    pretty usefull tactic, if you are playing the game 1v1

  • Qwurty2.0Qwurty2.0 Join Date: 2013-01-04 Member: 177431Members
    Killing cysts is a massive pain in the ass for the Kham, but if the alien team is any good they'll chase you away before you destroy enough cysts to actually hinder the enemy.

    Besides killing cysts and gas, they really aren't so much useful as they are fun. Even sane human beings have a strange attraction to fire and its destructive power. ;)
  • TinkerTinker Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14395Members
    Tinker wrote: »
    Derpy Words

    Herp Derp, I've been in overdrive the last few weeks and my brain is paying the price. I pulled up to pump 1 at a gas station but had a fiver in my hand so I put the money on that pump and had to move my car. I hope it's not Alzheimer.

    I figure you can all follow the ramblings of my shattered mind.
  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    kespec wrote: »
    xen32 wrote: »
    You can take out unattended hive solo with flamer.
    Say, aliens have 3 hives on docking, and all the action is always at locker and dep. There's nobody at generator, khamm won't bother to fortify it. All you have to do is fly on top of the hive and empty few clips.
    I do this everytime I see aliens got a hive like this, success rate is very high.

    pretty usefull tactic, if you are playing the game 1v1

    See, we are not talking about comp here.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    You guys seem to disagree but I get away with a lot of cyst killing unhindered.
  • kespeckespec Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172279Members
    james888 wrote: »
    You guys seem to disagree but I get away with a lot of cyst killing unhindered.

    omnipresent fades love their cysts.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    Tinker wrote: »
    Tinker wrote: »
    Derpy Words

    Herp Derp, I've been in overdrive the last few weeks and my brain is paying the price. I pulled up to pump 1 at a gas station but had a fiver in my hand so I put the money on that pump and had to move my car. I hope it's not Alzheimer.

    I figure you can all follow the ramblings of my shattered mind.

    I don't even follow that... try again, you can do it. coherence may finally be approached.

    I do the puff and scoot whenever I need a break from the action. its fun, and you get that extra bit of enjoyment from the knowledge that you're being a productive Dick, and ruining someone else's day. :)
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    james888 wrote: »
    I love to take a jetpack and a fl and kill almost the entire cyst chain. Its like 30-50 tres not to mention all the stuff that dies once disconnected. I kill every other cyst and it only takes a little puff. I usually go unhindered till I get near a hive.


    OMG who is comming the alien team 50 cysts In one chai... I sence a little exaggeration. But your welcome to spend 40 res out of your pocket to light a flare that says "kill me my shotgun skills are lacking, but I can hold M1 and spin in circles"
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    maD_maX_ wrote: »
    james888 wrote: »
    I love to take a jetpack and a fl and kill almost the entire cyst chain. Its like 30-50 tres not to mention all the stuff that dies once disconnected. I kill every other cyst and it only takes a little puff. I usually go unhindered till I get near a hive.

    OMG who is comming the alien team 50 cysts In one chai... I sence a little exaggeration. But your welcome to spend 40 res out of your pocket to light a flare that says "kill me my shotgun skills are lacking, but I can hold M1 and spin in circles"

    You got me. My aim is not stellar. I really like killing cysts in mass just because I know how annoying it is for the other team.
  • ezayezay Join Date: 2013-03-11 Member: 183899Members
    kendope wrote: »
    To be honest, I sometimes only get flame thrower for the lulz.

    That. Shotgun is better in every other situation, maybe not for the utility, but the shear firepower.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    Biggest imaginable buff to flamethrower:

    Introduce arms to the 1st person model, holding the flamethrower partially BELOW your view, so that you actually look ABOVE the flames, instead of breathing fire like a goddamn dragon.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    Biggest imaginable buff to flamethrower:

    Introduce arms to the 1st person model, holding the flamethrower partially BELOW your view, so that you actually look ABOVE the flames, instead of breathing fire like a goddamn dragon.

    biggest buff to flame throwers would be to bring it in line with ww2 standards.
    http://www.howstuffworks.com/flame-thrower-info.htm
    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/209387/flame-thrower

    summarily:
    ~40 meter flame, burning at 800-1200 C, for 10 seconds of continuous fire. ouch. 1200 is roughly the melting point of cast iron... 40 f-ing meters.



    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tl4wBZ5q_Ug?feature=player_detailpage&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Its not worth researching/buying. Its better to get a shotgun and kill the lerk than to buy a flamethrower to kill his spores/umbra.
  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited May 2013
    I've previously argued for a redesign of the flamethrower to include two modes of fire:

    1. Primary fire: Extremely tight cone of fire with a medium range (think slightly longer than a good range for effective shotgun damage) that does high damage to creatures and medium damage to structures, while burning through ammo (fuel) at roughly half the amount of time it takes to empty a machine gun. This would basically work like the hmg from ns1, but with a much shorter attack duration and potentially some interesting differences due it being a stream of fire rather than bullets. This attack does not set afflicted targets on fire.

    2. Secondary fire: Wide cone of fire with a short range that does low damage to both structures and creatures. It burns through ammo significantly slower than primary fire. This attack sets afflicted targets on fire. Setting a structure on fire will disable that structure's passive and activated abilities (for example: hive regeneration, crag regeneration, hydra attack, whip attack, shade ink) until the fire stops. Setting a player on fire should disable that player's innate regeneration, nothing else. The "on fire" effect should last for a short, but not insignificant, duration after the target stops being afflicted by the attack.

    It has a long reload time and a high weight, slowing the marine carrying it down significantly.

    Some of the specifics may need to change to make it balanced, but that's the jist of it.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    They're extremely easy to use and somewhat disconcerting for aliens. They're also extremely good at killing skulks though almost everything is, you won't find much better against skulks than the flamethrower though.

    Also yeah they kill infestation fast, which can be very powerful in itself, they also highlight aliens nicely for your allies, and can be useful to get things away from structures/exos due to their excellent area effect.

    They don't do very much damage but they can do it to everything in an area with minimal effort, so they are more effective the fewer of them there are, if that makes sense. The more you buy the less efficient they get.
  • ezekelezekel Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
    Hmmmm I like the BT flamer, it's good for doing some heavy damage to alien structures; if it were to be more viable or do heavier damage to aliens then it's essentially like a minigun (endless fire with no recoil) I'm not sure though it'd have to be tried out, I just like the idea of it being a weapon used to clear out structures rapidly

    But then what's the grenade launcher left to do? I never pick it up due to

    1) slow fire rate

    2) arced projectile

    3) slow reload time

    4) Long explosion time, unless direct hit

    I'd like to see the grenade launcher have a hold to fire button, the longer you hold it the faster it travels (essentially making it like a rocket after a full hold) and doing more damage after the charge, would be interesting to do some heavy damage to an alien with a well aimed shot; just an idea
  • tummy_yummytummy_yummy Join Date: 2013-05-01 Member: 185073Members, Reinforced - Gold, WC 2013 - Supporter
    This attack does not set afflicted targets on fire.
    But surely, being a flame-thrower, that's the whole point? ;)
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